rec.autos.simulators

by **Brian Bowle** » Wed, 16 Jan 2002 10:23:55

Wow this is a spirited discussion! I liked my v5 when I had it but
personally I think the gf3 is a much superior card. I play GPL and it does
well in that game. I must say that operation flashpoint is a fine game but
it is not one of the most popular games in the U.S. It really does not
matter GPL is not one of the most popular games either. If you want
popularity compare Quake 3. It is not my personal favorite due to its
mindlessness. I do really like Return to Castle Wolfenstein though and I
think it uses the Quake 3 engine.

> I also agree on the FSAA of the VooDoo 5. I wish that ATI or Nvidia
> would get their shit together and use 3dfx's rotated grid method.

> Its a bit disappointing when the cards that are 3 years newer still
> have crapola FSAA. And any chance that unreal will work as well in
> D3D as it does in GLide? I mean how much time do they need to fix
> the Unreal for D3D?

> It seems that they spend too much time cranking out the fastest frame
> rates and the quality goes out the window. The 2 quality of the GF3
> and ATI are worse than the old V5. The Matrox is the best still.

> For 300.00 why do they sacrifice 2D. I compared my Radeon to the V5
> and the text is just a little bit blurrier at 1280 and beyond. Whats
> up with that?

> Don't get me wrong I know my V5 is dated and days are numbered. But
> the new cards take a step backwards in some areas. I want my cake
> and eat it too. I want all the good stuff of the V5 plus all the
> speed and new effects of the newer ones.

> >Alrighty then I have just finished the latest look at these two fierce
> >competitors and its likely to be the last look since the GF4 maybe
> >will steal my heart away.

> >http://www.racesimcentral.net/

> >Before you get your panties in a knot understand that your choices
> >mean little to me, this is just more information you can use to decide
> >where you are gonna spend money.

> >PAPA DOC

> >Pierre PAPA DOC Legrand
> >Never Forget Never Forgive
> >September 11, 2001
> >We Will Find You
> >www.papadoc.net

by **SecretSquirre** » Wed, 16 Jan 2002 12:00:33

Hardly. Your opinions, methodologies and editorializations are biased and
basically useless.

by **xman Charli** » Wed, 16 Jan 2002 12:22:53

I agree with Doc.

Recently I have been running a Asus A7N266 nvidia mb with the built in gf2
and a pci 3dfx 5000.

Seems to me, that even a pci 3dfx 5000 card, gives me a better picture for
my flight sims.

xman Charlie

> Wow this is a spirited discussion! I liked my v5 when I had it but
> personally I think the gf3 is a much superior card. I play GPL and it does
> well in that game. I must say that operation flashpoint is a fine game but
> it is not one of the most popular games in the U.S. It really does not
> matter GPL is not one of the most popular games either. If you want
> popularity compare Quake 3. It is not my personal favorite due to its
> mindlessness. I do really like Return to Castle Wolfenstein though and I
> think it uses the Quake 3 engine.

> > I also agree on the FSAA of the VooDoo 5. I wish that ATI or Nvidia
> > would get their shit together and use 3dfx's rotated grid method.

> > Its a bit disappointing when the cards that are 3 years newer still
> > have crapola FSAA. And any chance that unreal will work as well in
> > D3D as it does in GLide? I mean how much time do they need to fix
> > the Unreal for D3D?

> > It seems that they spend too much time cranking out the fastest frame
> > rates and the quality goes out the window. The 2 quality of the GF3
> > and ATI are worse than the old V5. The Matrox is the best still.

> > For 300.00 why do they sacrifice 2D. I compared my Radeon to the V5
> > and the text is just a little bit blurrier at 1280 and beyond. Whats
> > up with that?

> > Don't get me wrong I know my V5 is dated and days are numbered. But
> > the new cards take a step backwards in some areas. I want my cake
> > and eat it too. I want all the good stuff of the V5 plus all the
> > speed and new effects of the newer ones.

> > >Alrighty then I have just finished the latest look at these two fierce
> > >competitors and its likely to be the last look since the GF4 maybe
> > >will steal my heart away.

> > >http://www.papadoc.net/V5vsGF3.html

> > >Before you get your panties in a knot understand that your choices
> > >mean little to me, this is just more information you can use to decide
> > >where you are gonna spend money.

> > >PAPA DOC

> > >Pierre PAPA DOC Legrand
> > >Never Forget Never Forgive
> > >September 11, 2001
> > >We Will Find You
> > >www.papadoc.net

by **Brian Bowle** » Wed, 16 Jan 2002 12:31:55

I bought my v5 the day it came out. I remember I got it at Babbages because
they had them before any other store in town. I always liked the card and
the 2d and 3d looked great. I really had no complaints. I recently upgraded
my cpu, motherboard, and ram. I found the v5 to not bee as great when using
windows xp. I decided to go with the gf3. For me it is a better card. GPL
runs better. I do not use fsaa becuase i think it looks better than the v5
because I can run at 1600x1200. I think quake 3 definitely looks better at
1600x1200. Pierre said he does not use 32 bit color because he does not need
to. In my opinion 32 bit color does look better. It would be like saying you
like a higher resolution instead of fsaa. Each person has their own opinion.
I think a v5 is a very bad purchase for anyone right now because of the
problems in windows xp. If you already have a v5 and you are happy with the
games you play, there is no reason to upgrade. If you are building a system
then a v5 is not a good choice. I decided I really liked windows xp so
upgrading my video card was the best solution for me. I like it better than
my v5. They both are good cards.

> I agree with Doc.

> Recently I have been running a Asus A7N266 nvidia mb with the built in gf2
> and a pci 3dfx 5000.

> Seems to me, that even a pci 3dfx 5000 card, gives me a better picture for
> my flight sims.

> xman Charlie

> > Wow this is a spirited discussion! I liked my v5 when I had it but
> > personally I think the gf3 is a much superior card. I play GPL and it
does
> > well in that game. I must say that operation flashpoint is a fine game
but
> > it is not one of the most popular games in the U.S. It really does not
> > matter GPL is not one of the most popular games either. If you want
> > popularity compare Quake 3. It is not my personal favorite due to its
> > mindlessness. I do really like Return to Castle Wolfenstein though and I
> > think it uses the Quake 3 engine.

> > > I also agree on the FSAA of the VooDoo 5. I wish that ATI or Nvidia
> > > would get their shit together and use 3dfx's rotated grid method.

> > > Its a bit disappointing when the cards that are 3 years newer still
> > > have crapola FSAA. And any chance that unreal will work as well in
> > > D3D as it does in GLide? I mean how much time do they need to fix
> > > the Unreal for D3D?

> > > It seems that they spend too much time cranking out the fastest frame
> > > rates and the quality goes out the window. The 2 quality of the GF3
> > > and ATI are worse than the old V5. The Matrox is the best still.

> > > For 300.00 why do they sacrifice 2D. I compared my Radeon to the V5
> > > and the text is just a little bit blurrier at 1280 and beyond. Whats
> > > up with that?

> > > Don't get me wrong I know my V5 is dated and days are numbered. But
> > > the new cards take a step backwards in some areas. I want my cake
> > > and eat it too. I want all the good stuff of the V5 plus all the
> > > speed and new effects of the newer ones.

> > > >Alrighty then I have just finished the latest look at these two
fierce
> > > >competitors and its likely to be the last look since the GF4 maybe
> > > >will steal my heart away.

> > > >http://www.papadoc.net/V5vsGF3.html

> > > >Before you get your panties in a knot understand that your choices
> > > >mean little to me, this is just more information you can use to
decide
> > > >where you are gonna spend money.

> > > >PAPA DOC

> > > >Pierre PAPA DOC Legrand
> > > >Never Forget Never Forgive
> > > >September 11, 2001
> > > >We Will Find You
> > > >www.papadoc.net

by **Bill Huffma** » Wed, 16 Jan 2002 12:37:54

Pierre, nice competitive review, thanks.

by **Pierre Legra** » Wed, 16 Jan 2002 16:20:06

Well which particular benchmark that I quoted you in my response is
invalid...? Based on what..? Based on that you claim that the V5
cannot do high res and in those two brand new games it spanks the
GF3..? The GF3Ti500 are 279.00 on pricewatch right now...its clocked
at 240 core and 500 memory...mine was clocked at 220 core and 525
memory....oooh big difference there punk.

You are one of those little hardware geeks that run around trying to
intimidate people with your bullshit...not here bud. Been around the
block a few too many times to buy your line.

PAPA DOC

Pierre PAPA DOC Legrand
Never Forget Never Forgive
September 11, 2001
We Will Find You
www.papadoc.net

by **Pierre Legra** » Wed, 16 Jan 2002 16:27:33

hehe....I doubt that you can quote me wrong...but you are welcome to
try.

Dont know about Windows XP, dont have any reason to upgrade now.

Thats the type of statement that doesnt get very far with me. Quoting
Framerate scores our of context of all of your settings does no one
any good.

Brian thats a silly question...of course I ran it at x4 FSAA...did you
actually read the review or are you getting your information second
hand...the point of running 3dMark was to show what to expect with
apps that either do not support or dont support TnL well.

Or course it was higher you havent paid attention to the article and
understood the settings I have used or why I used them.

If you cannot do that after the race with a V5 then you needed to
upgrade your CPU. I can do that easily. But I choose to stay at x2
FSAA at 1024 because of the better image quality.

PAPA DOC

Pierre PAPA DOC Legrand
Never Forget Never Forgive
September 11, 2001
We Will Find You
www.papadoc.net

by **Pierre Legra** » Wed, 16 Jan 2002 16:29:03

Operation Flashpoint was at the top of the best sellers list for
sometime. Whether it is more popular than Quake is irrelevent since
both are benchmarked....you really havent read the article have you.

PAPA DOC

>Wow this is a spirited discussion! I liked my v5 when I had it but
>personally I think the gf3 is a much superior card. I play GPL and it does
>well in that game. I must say that operation flashpoint is a fine game but
>it is not one of the most popular games in the U.S. It really does not
>matter GPL is not one of the most popular games either. If you want
>popularity compare Quake 3. It is not my personal favorite due to its
>mindlessness. I do really like Return to Castle Wolfenstein though and I
>think it uses the Quake 3 engine.

>> I also agree on the FSAA of the VooDoo 5. I wish that ATI or Nvidia
>> would get their shit together and use 3dfx's rotated grid method.

>> Its a bit disappointing when the cards that are 3 years newer still
>> have crapola FSAA. And any chance that unreal will work as well in
>> D3D as it does in GLide? I mean how much time do they need to fix
>> the Unreal for D3D?

>> It seems that they spend too much time cranking out the fastest frame
>> rates and the quality goes out the window. The 2 quality of the GF3
>> and ATI are worse than the old V5. The Matrox is the best still.

>> For 300.00 why do they sacrifice 2D. I compared my Radeon to the V5
>> and the text is just a little bit blurrier at 1280 and beyond. Whats
>> up with that?

>> Don't get me wrong I know my V5 is dated and days are numbered. But
>> the new cards take a step backwards in some areas. I want my cake
>> and eat it too. I want all the good stuff of the V5 plus all the
>> speed and new effects of the newer ones.

>> >Alrighty then I have just finished the latest look at these two fierce
>> >competitors and its likely to be the last look since the GF4 maybe
>> >will steal my heart away.

>> >http://www.papadoc.net/V5vsGF3.html

>> >Before you get your panties in a knot understand that your choices
>> >mean little to me, this is just more information you can use to decide
>> >where you are gonna spend money.

>> >PAPA DOC

>> >Pierre PAPA DOC Legrand
>> >Never Forget Never Forgive
>> >September 11, 2001
>> >We Will Find You
>> >www.papadoc.net

Pierre PAPA DOC Legrand
Never Forget Never Forgive
September 11, 2001
We Will Find You
www.papadoc.net

by **The Enigmatic O** » Wed, 16 Jan 2002 17:10:28

He's a Geforce Fanatic, and you questioned his manhood. Now he needs
to prove that, even though there ain't much between his legs, his video card
makes up for it. Honestly, you'd get the same from other types if you had
trashed any item of choice. You should see how car company fanatics can get.
Video card types don't compare.

-Tim

by **Schrodinge** » Wed, 16 Jan 2002 17:58:24

Pierre, I read the article (well, *most* of it - it *was* long ;) ).

I "upgraded" from a V5 5500 to a GF2MX - although now am on a Herc 4500. It
really pained me to do so, having been a big fan of Voodoos since their
launch.

I had to change as, at the time, I was playing a lot of Tribes2 and it
really didn't get along with 3dfx.

Either way, I would agree wholeheartedly with your comments about overall
visual quality.

*BUT* and, as I am sure you can see it is a *big* "but".

I was astounded by the difference in colour portrayal (maybe saturation,
although I would say it was more than just that). The GF2 made games like
Tribes, Half Life et al so much more colourful. Whilst I do miss the 4xfsaa
mode a lot, for me personally this is more than compensated for by the
colour differences.

I am certain that I didn't just have a badly set up rig, as I have had 3dfx
from Voodoo1 on various machines, all with the same look.

Thanks for the page, though, I am sure it will be very useful to the
intended audience - as opposed to idiots who have nothing better to do than
whine about which video card is better than another when it is not relevant
to them...

Schrodinger

by **Hans Bergengre** » Wed, 16 Jan 2002 18:01:47

> hehe...Listen how about you actually read the review before you go off
> on me. If you did you would see why the 3dMark scores are low for both
> cards...x4FSAA enabled with no Hardware TnL.

I don't see why you should run a GF3 with no hardware TnL. If the object of
the article is as you indeed say, to help V5 owners if they want to upgrade
to a GF3 or not, why would they NOT want to run their apps using hardware
TnL? That's just STUPID.

Dosn't need it? BS, man. All cards "need" anisotropic filtering, and if you
knew what anisotropic filtering really does, you'd agree with that. But
then, the V5 can't even do trilinear while multitexturing, and you diehard
3dfx zealot apologists have all the reasons in the world trying to cover
such embarassing truths... :-)

Bye!
/HB.

by **John Hende** » Wed, 16 Jan 2002 21:02:02

Why does Nvidia leave it disabled in the Direct X driver then? I mean,
if it's something you can't live without and all, shouldn't you be able
to turn it on without a 3rd party app?

--
Artificial Intelligence stands no chance against Natural Stupidity.
GAT d- -p+(--) c++++ l++ u++ t- m--- W--- !v
b+++ e* s-/+ n-(?) h++ f+g+ w+++ y*

by **Samu** » Wed, 16 Jan 2002 21:18:54

--------------------Clip----------------------------

Hmmm, i dont quite understand the Nascar4 benchmark.
I had p3 1000 Mhz and V5, but my Psu died, killing my motherboard at the
same time, so it was time for upgrade.

Nascar 4 is just about the only game i play nowdays, so i get into that.

most of the eye candy turned off. The frame rate howered from low 20:s to
42.x, but mostly it was wery playable, meaning it was closer to 40 than 20.
The V5 seemed to have some problems with sand and lights and on some tracks
(Sears, L-night) and the fps dropped a little too much for my liking.

With my new setup (Xp 1600, GF3 Ti-200, everything else the same), i can run

like 35-70!
Sears point runs like a dream, no matter how much sand is in the air, so i
don't think that is all because of the faster cpu. IMHO, Gf3 seems to be the
winner for N4.

Haven't tried Gpl yet, but i don't think there will be much improvement,
because that game ran great with my earlier setup also.

- Samu

by **SecretSquirre** » Thu, 17 Jan 2002 03:36:14

Whatever. Your boring insults don't hide the fact that the GeForce3 is an
upgrade for the Voodoo5 in each and every category.

Visual Quality, Speed, Ease of use and Price.

You facts are in gross error, and you are annoying.

So take another walk around the block, you obviously missed most of the
worthy sights the first time around.

by **Hans Bergengre** » Thu, 17 Jan 2002 03:33:45

> >Dosn't need it? BS, man. All cards "need" anisotropic filtering, and if
you
> >knew what anisotropic filtering really does, you'd agree with that.
> Why does Nvidia leave it disabled in the Direct X driver then?

Because it incurs a performance hit, naturally. I suppose Nvidia could hide
behind some compliancy clause or something, but that's more or less what it
boils down to. If feature = less 3dmarks, then feature = off as default. ;-)
Same thing with all manufacturers, even bankrupt ex-market leaders.

It's disabled as default in OpenGL too by the way, and much for the same
reason I would think, just substitute 3dmark above with quake3...

LOL. I can live without it, but wouldn't you want your graphics to look as
good as reasonably possible? I sure do.

I believe that is because of Microsoft actually, and their god-damn WHQL
certification. Anyway, it's no bother installing Rivatune, Nvmax or such, so
there's no point in trying to make it out as something bad.

Bye!
/HB.

rec.autos.simulators

Voodoo 5 vs Geforce 3 using Ghost Recon, Nascar 4, Quake3, F/A-18, Flanker Benchmarks Galore....downloads for those who care

Voodoo 5 vs Geforce 3 using Ghost Recon, Nascar 4, Quake3, F/A-18, Flanker Benchmarks Galore....downloads for those who care

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Voodoo 5 vs Geforce 3 using Ghost Recon, Nascar 4, Quake3, F/A-18, Flanker Benchmarks Galore....downloads for those who care

Voodoo 5 vs Geforce 3 using Ghost Recon, Nascar 4, Quake3, F/A-18, Flanker Benchmarks Galore....downloads for those who care