rec.autos.simulators

Voodoo 5 vs Geforce 3 using Ghost Recon, Nascar 4, Quake3, F/A-18, Flanker Benchmarks Galore....downloads for those who care

Mark Nusbau

Voodoo 5 vs Geforce 3 using Ghost Recon, Nascar 4, Quake3, F/A-18, Flanker Benchmarks Galore....downloads for those who care

by Mark Nusbau » Sat, 26 Jan 2002 15:54:49


Right, I forgot the Rush, probably because it was so damned forgettable. I
didn't mention the nVidia Riva 128 either, which was much the same and also
paled in comparison to the V2.

The first GeForce256 wasn't really all that much faster in terms of
framerates in its first version, with 32mb of SDR memory, than a TNT2 Ultra.
The chip was slower (120mhz vs. 150 to 175) but the expanded pipelines more
than offset that, and the memory was at 166mhz, SLOWER than the Ultra's 183.
It was adding DDR memory and, since texture compression wasn't in play, then
later 64mb of it that really made the card, which is the same old basic
story - high fill rate (via the core structure) and high memory bandwidth.
3dfx was staggering under all of their changes and losing money, and had
gone down the road of a multichip solution, in part to deal with the memory
bandwidth issue. On top of all of that they couldn't add DDR to the mix
while trying to get the delayed V5 out, and had nothing left after that. But
it might have been close - what if the 5500 had come out in the late fall of
'99 against the first GF, and the 6000 against the GF 64mb DDR in early '00?
The 6000 was absurdly priced but at that not much more than the high-end GF,
would have crushed any GF in benchmarks, and the 5500 beat the GF SDR and
was about equal to a DDR. Then maybe another round, probably coming up
against the GF2 Ultra, and a V6 might have been a lot faster, have DDR
memory, texture compression offsets the 32mb per chip price limitation, T&L
to placate the press, and even a twin chip card could have badly beaten the
Ultra. Then what? Didn't happen, of course, but could have changed
everything. Maybe we'd be playing at 1600x1200 with 16X FSAA at 100fps if it
had, Voodoo, Radeon, GeForce or whatever...

I don't know that I'd see it quite that way. nVidia had a notable OEM share
as early as the Riva 128 but no real 3D rep, while 3dfx didn't really
seriously try to move out of the 3D add-on or upgrade sector until they
started making their own boards with the V3 - they came from different
sectors. During the V3/TNT battle, nVidia was much more successful at moving
into the 3D gamers scene than V3 was at moving into the OEM market, in part
because nVidia had already made inroads with the TNT and in part because
OEMs won't switch allegances as quickly as gamers, and I don't know if the
Voodoo name and rep meant good things to them. Matrox was and is a 2D
business market company, and dabbled in higher-end 3D stuff only once, with
the G400. ATi started seriously trying for the *** sector with the
Rage128/Rage Fury, which was supposed to go up against the TNT and Banshee
but was late to market, and then the RF Pro and RF Maxx with the same
results. They only scored with the Radeon, but weren't terribly far off
(outside of the drivers) prior to that, maybe six months. But they had all
the other consumer bases covered already - OEM, Mac, mobile. They've
expanded into mobo chipsets and consoles the same as nVidia, and now are
moving into 3D workstation. But nVidia's gains in every sector are
impressive any way you look at it.

Agreed. We just need a third player to make it all really work for us.

Trent Worthingto

Voodoo 5 vs Geforce 3 using Ghost Recon, Nascar 4, Quake3, F/A-18, Flanker Benchmarks Galore....downloads for those who care

by Trent Worthingto » Sat, 26 Jan 2002 23:43:49


>> "ZOD" doesn't know what he means.  Give it up, there is no one
>> home there.

>Yada...yada....go crawl back under that rock, wormboy..hehe

Hey CLOD, why do your posts just hang there like week old shit matted
into the fur around a poodle's ***? Enquiring minds, etc.

--



Trent Worthington, is a God a warrior and a gent,
we are not fit to suck his feet or dine on his excrement.
At night we crune by the light of the moon of his courage and his creed,
long live the Worthington seed.
Trent Trent, top of the hero class,
Trent, Trent we live to kiss his ass.

Visit a web page dedicated to me by my newest leg-humper:

http://www.racesimcentral.net/

Trent Worthingto

Voodoo 5 vs Geforce 3 using Ghost Recon, Nascar 4, Quake3, F/A-18, Flanker Benchmarks Galore....downloads for those who care

by Trent Worthingto » Sat, 26 Jan 2002 23:47:22



Let me guess, you just graduated from AOL.
Eat the barrel of a shotgun, moron

<snip 105 line post that Timmy top-posted to and quoted, just to say
"ME TOO!">

--



Trent Worthington, is a God a warrior and a gent,
we are not fit to suck his feet or dine on his excrement.
At night we crune by the light of the moon of his courage and his creed,
long live the Worthington seed.
Trent Trent, top of the hero class,
Trent, Trent we live to kiss his ass.

Visit a web page dedicated to me by my newest leg-humper:

http://www.geocities.com/da_stoned_monkey_2000/

Trent Worthingto

Voodoo 5 vs Geforce 3 using Ghost Recon, Nascar 4, Quake3, F/A-18, Flanker Benchmarks Galore....downloads for those who care

by Trent Worthingto » Sat, 26 Jan 2002 23:52:59


>> Evidently not, if it's fuzzy at 1200x1024, or less.

>I never said it was fuzzy...just too small for my liking.
>Pay attention...hehe

>> You are real funny nit-wit.  If you have anything to say (no
>> evidence of any lights on upstairs), I'm sure there is someone
>> left to humor you.

>And you are a total moron.......hehe

>> *PLONK*

>Yeah...I got yer 3200x2000 right here!
>Hehe.....

They say that nature abhors a vacuum, so how do you keep your cranium
from imploding?

--



Trent Worthington, is a God a warrior and a gent,
we are not fit to suck his feet or dine on his excrement.
At night we crune by the light of the moon of his courage and his creed,
long live the Worthington seed.
Trent Trent, top of the hero class,
Trent, Trent we live to kiss his ass.

Visit a web page dedicated to me by my newest leg-humper:

http://www.geocities.com/da_stoned_monkey_2000/

chris

Voodoo 5 vs Geforce 3 using Ghost Recon, Nascar 4, Quake3, F/A-18, Flanker Benchmarks Galore....downloads for those who care

by chris » Sun, 27 Jan 2002 03:21:41


>Subtle as always, ChrisV...

>You go ahead and have a nice day you too. :-/

Well, you made some good points, too, Hans.  8)  I think we all agree
with you that 3dfx's downfall was largely their own doing, the reasons
which you stated.  

You don't lose that much of a lead in the market without being
partially to blame.  They were outdone by Nvidia, technically.  One
thing I will remind, however, is that 3dfx had a challenge that nVidia
did not:  they had to add all these fancy new features to a dated
architecture while retaining backwards compatibility with the original
Voodoo/Glide system.  nVidia was under no such restraint, having
started with a clean-sheet design later in the game.

chris

Voodoo 5 vs Geforce 3 using Ghost Recon, Nascar 4, Quake3, F/A-18, Flanker Benchmarks Galore....downloads for those who care

by chris » Sun, 27 Jan 2002 03:26:54



>> Well, that just depends, doesn't it?  If the features are FREE, in
>> both dollars and time-to market, sure - bring them on!  But they're
>> not free, are they.

>Chris, how much is a GF3 200Ti in dollars and cents today? It's not THAT
>much is it!

>If you find another video card that in your eyes presents a better value per
>$, by all means go ahead and buy it. A quick search on Pricewatch shows
>numerous entries around the $150 mark. Maybe you think that represents poor
>value?

>> And if said feature only gets used on a small
>> fraction of games, that themselves do not become available until
>> you've had the card for a year (so you're already thinking of
>> upgrading again), it's not a very good value, now is it?

>That is certainly a factor that should be considered when thinking of byuing
>a new video card. Otoh, even IF a certain feature will be under-utilized in
>the lifespan of proposed video card, your new video card would still run
>your existing (and upcoming) library of titles faster and better than your
>current one. With the exception of mebbe Deus Ex and some ancient Glide-only
>titles which precious few people still play... ;->

One thing I will concede:  I don't think that adding rarely-used
features is necessarily "bad".  There is obviously a "chicken and egg"
situation where the software for the feature won't get made until
hardware is available, and vice-versa.  nVidia deserves credit for
being the one pushing out the hardware features, so that software will
be written to take advantage of them, even if it's a couple years
delay in-between.
ZOD

Voodoo 5 vs Geforce 3 using Ghost Recon, Nascar 4, Quake3, F/A-18, Flanker Benchmarks Galore....downloads for those who care

by ZOD » Sun, 27 Jan 2002 03:50:18

No...Nvidia chose to use an 'open' standard.
Although 3dfx kicked off a revolution....they just started on the wrong
foot.
It's that same thinking that Apple has. Can you imagine how big Apple would
be today if they had not been so greedy and controlling?
People like to portray Gates that way but those same people say nothing
about Jobs....amazing...hehe

Tim Mise

Voodoo 5 vs Geforce 3 using Ghost Recon, Nascar 4, Quake3, F/A-18, Flanker Benchmarks Galore....downloads for those who care

by Tim Mise » Sun, 27 Jan 2002 05:39:05

Dialup accounts must suck, huh?  <sniff sniff>




> >Wow, that's a great post.

> Let me guess, you just graduated from AOL.
> Eat the barrel of a shotgun, moron

> <snip 105 line post that Timmy top-posted to and quoted, just to say
> "ME TOO!">

> --



> Trent Worthington, is a God a warrior and a gent,
> we are not fit to suck his feet or dine on his excrement.
> At night we crune by the light of the moon of his courage and his creed,
> long live the Worthington seed.
> Trent Trent, top of the hero class,
> Trent, Trent we live to kiss his ass.

> Visit a web page dedicated to me by my newest leg-humper:

> http://www.geocities.com/da_stoned_monkey_2000/

Dickydid

Voodoo 5 vs Geforce 3 using Ghost Recon, Nascar 4, Quake3, F/A-18, Flanker Benchmarks Galore....downloads for those who care

by Dickydid » Sun, 27 Jan 2002 05:34:52

http://www.omegacorner.com/

V3/4/5 WIN9X/ME OMEGA DRIVERS 1.02 "SPECIAL" DRIVERS [1.73MB]

From: ???

Trent Worthingto

Voodoo 5 vs Geforce 3 using Ghost Recon, Nascar 4, Quake3, F/A-18, Flanker Benchmarks Galore....downloads for those who care

by Trent Worthingto » Sun, 27 Jan 2002 07:29:22



It's not a matter of whether I'm on dialup or not, you worthless waste
of carbon. It's a matter of how to post to usenet properly. ***, I'll
bet you couldn't count your balls and get the same answer twice.

Thomas Rohrich

Voodoo 5 vs Geforce 3 using Ghost Recon, Nascar 4, Quake3, F/A-18, Flanker Benchmarks Galore....downloads for those who care

by Thomas Rohrich » Sun, 27 Jan 2002 08:32:38



Trent, can I get an autographed copy of your upcoming book of insults?

Tim Mise

Voodoo 5 vs Geforce 3 using Ghost Recon, Nascar 4, Quake3, F/A-18, Flanker Benchmarks Galore....downloads for those who care

by Tim Mise » Sun, 27 Jan 2002 10:19:55




> >Dialup accounts must suck, huh?  <sniff sniff>

> It's not a matter of whether I'm on dialup or not, you worthless waste
> of carbon. It's a matter of how to post to usenet properly. ***, I'll
> bet you couldn't count your balls and get the same answer twice.

Thank you for the 'how to post to newsgroups' lesson***head.  I now know
how to properly reply to messages from ***wits like you.  *** you very
much!

-Tim

Tim Mise

Voodoo 5 vs Geforce 3 using Ghost Recon, Nascar 4, Quake3, F/A-18, Flanker Benchmarks Galore....downloads for those who care

by Tim Mise » Sun, 27 Jan 2002 10:24:03


It certainly is an upgrade in Price!

Keith R. William

Voodoo 5 vs Geforce 3 using Ghost Recon, Nascar 4, Quake3, F/A-18, Flanker Benchmarks Galore....downloads for those who care

by Keith R. William » Sun, 27 Jan 2002 10:44:53



By not understanding the words?  "Cranium" and "imploding" are
three syllables, you know.

----
  Keith

Mark Nusbau

Voodoo 5 vs Geforce 3 using Ghost Recon, Nascar 4, Quake3, F/A-18, Flanker Benchmarks Galore....downloads for those who care

by Mark Nusbau » Sun, 27 Jan 2002 13:12:58


 One thing I will concede:  I don't think that adding rarely-used

There's something to be said for this, but the problem is that I don't like
having to pay for them, particularly ones that have absolutely no
application whatsoever. I simply don't want to pay my money for cards that
include stuff that may or may not be at all usable down the road on that
card, or that may not ever be of any use on any card. *** isn't some
charity. So I'd like a choice between spending a shitload of money on a card
that includes this stuff and considerably less for a card that may or may
not age quite as gracefully, may or may not contribute to the greater good
of the future of *** in some way, but just does the best job on the stuff
that's out there to play. I don't really think most gamers want to spend
hard-earned dollars on that stuff either, but I think a lot of people don't
know any different, so buy those features anyway. I also think a lot of
nVidia defenders tote this line because that's what nVidia and its
supporters in the press have been spouting for years now. Do these guys
defend buying a Pentium 4 over a cheaper Athlon because someday the chip's
structure will pay off, once it gets fast enough and apps are written for
it? I doubt it.

The problem now is that ATi does much the same thing as nVidia (although not
quite as bad), and I'm sure what happened to 3dfx and how nVidia has
succeeded doing this is the main reason why. All I want is a choice.


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