rec.autos.simulators

Oopsy Nvidia does have the page to enable it in OpenGl part of their
properties. It is only unavailible when in the Direct X page....

The reason it is disabled is because it is buggy in Direct X...works
sometimes, doesnt work other times, works in some drivers and not in
others...

PAPA DOC

Pierre PAPA DOC Legrand
Never Forget Never Forgive
September 11, 2001
We Will Find You
www.papadoc.net

hehe..You are too easy...ask harder questions please. Ones that show
you actually can read instead of just looking at the pretty pictures.

Ooopsy I guess we know who didnt read all those complicated little
thingies called words in the article. To quote

"I decided on this test after I saw how unexpectedly close the Voodoo
5 was to the GF3 on games that didnt support TnL or didnt support it
enough to be obvious or supported it but it didnt make any
difference.Nascar 4 anyone?  I ran this test to see how strong both
cards were without any affect from TnL being considered. It was
interesting to see how this highly respected and widely used benchmark
showed the differences between the two cards.when TnL was factored
out of the equation"

For you short bus types, here is a easy version of what I said above.
Many games right now are either not TnL enabled, poorly enabled, or
only limitedly enabled...for those games both cards are on equal
footing with the GF3's GPU being factored out.

hehe...Well if its so important I guess you better be pissed off at
Nvidia since they claim to have it and its not enabled in their
drivers. As far as needing it...yup it would be nice if the V5 had
it...but it doesnt. But that doesnt change the fact that when compared
side by side the FSAA of the V5 is less blurry and more beautiful. I
only was interested in Anisotropic filtering to the degree that it
helped the GF3 equal the V5's abilities in FSAA.

Next.

PAPA DOC

Pierre PAPA DOC Legrand
Never Forget Never Forgive
September 11, 2001
We Will Find You
www.papadoc.net

You can download the Benchmark Recording from my site to use the same
test I used. I included all my settings as well.

PAPA DOC

Pierre PAPA DOC Legrand
Never Forget Never Forgive
September 11, 2001
We Will Find You
www.papadoc.net

I see this thread keeps getting longer, and some responses are starting to
approach being just plain silly.
For myself I would like to thank Papa Doc for his work, and review.
While I am sure someone can produce numbers that prove almost any point in a
video card battle, I think his numbers show that the V5 still has some life
left. Of course for myself playing mostly the Papy Nascar sims (and GPL but
that is a special case), and after having tried the newest demo for N2002,
it appears that the V5 might finally have to be replaced. Since N2002 is
finally going to use larger 32 bit textures, the VooDoo cards won't even be
able to hold a candle to the newer Nvidia and ATI cards.
--
btgoss

Remove my shorts to reply

That is just plain ridiculous! You have to be a serious 3dfx fanatic to peddle
such crap.

Pierre, it's simply your testing methodology that is faulty. For details,
see below.

Then why are you using a synthetic, TnL-optimized, DX8 title to try this
out? It's just rediculous. Use a d3d app that does not support TnL instead,
that's the proper way to do it.

"Deciphering" d3d performance in other applications from a run of 3dmark2001
(using TnL or not) is a dubious practice to put it kindly. It's simply not
possible to do.

The GF3 is far superior compared to a V5 even in applications not supporting
TnL, no matter what your so-called conclusions show using 3dmark2001 in a
way it was never intended to. Plain and simple.

Christ, man. This is so pathetic. Only the most die-hard, ***,
taliban-level fundamentalist 3dfx zealot/apologist would get in his head the
V5 and the GF3 are level in performance ON ANY LEVEL. Christ, that's just
plain silly.

Oh, but it is enabled, you just have to turn it on yourself. It's like
electric lights in a building, Pierre. The house is wired and connected up
to the electric grid and all, mmkay, but it doesn't mean every electric
appliance in the house is running constantly 24/7. It's a fairly simple
concept, I'm sure you'll grasp it eventually. ;-)

And a lot slower too mind you, which pretty much makes it pointless. Pretty
but slow graphics doesn't make anyone happy.

When I see flagwaving, chestthumping BS like this, I keep wondering when all
those US (ex) military/CIA officers, presidents etc will be arrested and
charged with crimes against humanity for meddling in SO MANY south american
countries they had no business sticking their *** noses in, causing the
death of countless innocent civilians.

 Bye!
/HB.

Nevertheless, aniso is disabled as default both in ogl and d3d.

However, it can easily be enabled in both modes using a number of handy
tweaker programs.

Not had any problems with it whatsoever. I would say you are in error here.

And I do believe not exposing aniso settings to the end-user is a MS WHQL
requirement.

 Bye!
/HB.

hehe..Well I run Nascar at the same resolution I ran it with the
Geforce 3 and with x2 FSAA its much nicer looking and just as
fast....and thats not crap.

PAPA DOC

Nope.  I'm sticking with the GeForce 3 simply because I find Nascar 4
and Rally Trophy need it.

There is a part of me that wishes I had bought a Voodoo 5 first tho,
and the GeForce 4 sure as hell better fix the flickering and aliasing
issues or I'll just hold off and hope I can find a Quantum3D board
with 4 or 8 vsa-100 chips on it.

To be fair, I can get my GeForce 3 card to look pretty damn good with
Quincux FSAA and AS filtering but by that point I'm getting around
14fps at 1280x1024x32 in Nascar 4 with full details (1.4gHz athlon)
and it still barely compares to a Voodoo 4 at 800x600x16 no FSAA
quality wise.  I think you really have to be used to a 3dfx card to
fully appreciate how much flickering is present on Nvidia cards.
Screenshots look comparable, maybe even leaning towards the GF3, but
there's no comparison in terms of the quality of animation.

Jason

hehehehe....Man Oh Man you are fun...even the insults at the end are
so fun to read. You are a funny funny man.

I believe its more your reading skills that are faulty but dont go
away...

Maybe you didint notice the other apps that were tested along with
3dMark. But first off your position that no one should use 3D Mark to
benchmark video cards without TnL enabled is absolutely hilarious
given that it is an option in that app. Why put the option if the
people who built the app intended you to not use it..? It was a very
useful benchmark...as well its very easy to run.

You are like the proverbial room full of monkey's you get it right
from time to time even though its plain that you stumble on it.
Absolutely if my review had ONLY included 3DMark it would not have
been as useful...luckily for me I included 9 apps....hehe.

Well thats what I started out believing but the numbers dont prove it.
Unless all you play is Quake 3 engined games...and thats a legitament
question. Which ironically is covered in the first part of the article
you didnt read.

Oooh you big man call me names, make me write bad checks. Is english a
second language for you...? Apparently the simplest of sentences
escapes your ability to decipher it. For instance in the sentence you
are screaming about, so uncreatively, I dont claim that they are
equal, only that with a app that does not have TnL both cards are only
dependent on the native abilities not on the GPU of the Geforce so
they are on EQUAL footing...meaning no advantage to the GF3 for TnL,
which is relevent today because of many games that dont take good
advantage of TnL hardware.  

Ooooh I love it when you try to be clever...its such a pitiful sight.
Nvidia does not enable it because it doesnt work reliably....if it did
work they would enable it like it is enabled in the OGL page. That is
part of the driver release as well loon...so if MS didnt like it that
wouldnt be there either. But MS does like Anisotropic filtering they
are one of the people responsible for pushing it in consumer cards.
Nvidia has been claiming for sometime that the feature would be
enabled but they cannot get it to work reliably. Unlike you I dont
depend on signals being recieved by the antennas on my head for my
information....instead I test it myself.

Oooopsy someone forgot to tell the Geforce 3 to be faster in Nascar,
Ghost Recon, Operation Flashpoint, Falcon, Janes F/A-18....quick
someone go tell them.

Well that does it, now Im gonna stomp my diddle foot and get all
political on you. Careful the waters you step into there are much
deeper than the deeper than you can handle waters you are in now.

PAPA DOC

Given our history thats very gracious of you. Thanks very much.

PAPA DOC

Great article. Looks like a lot went into it, well done. I would like to say
as a former owner of a v5500. I have the luxury of three computers in my
office. One had a radeon VIVO, one had an Elsa gf2 gts 32meg, and one had a
v5-5500. the radeon was on a p3 system, 440bx board. the other two were on
1gig athlons. The elsa card was definitely the fastest of all the cards.
This was running Q3A on the same map, same settings, with all card set to
same vis quality- no FSAA. Not a timedemo, the real game running- in the
same place, at the same time, side by side, the vs was slower. i wish,
however, that I had one now, because of the image quality in systems that
aren't mission critical in the 3d dept. Geforce is a faster card, period,
especially the GF3. The Geforce 2 gts and Pro versions were faster- never
had an Ultra. Side by side, in comparable systems, (and I;m gonna get burned
for this but I've seen it) the v5 runs closer, albeit a bit faster, to the
first Geforce in terms of speed. I have a creative labs annihilator, shuttle
ddr board with 512mb, 1.0 gig cpu, its almost as fast as the v5. However, I
would like to buy a v5. If anyone in the SE Texas area wants to sell one,
let me know in this NG plz.

Is Nascar 4 a glide game, or what? Quite frankly, I find it hard to believe

look better than a GF3 with those features enabled unless something is
seriously wrong with the game itself.

I still have a 3dfx Banshee in my P2-300, Im not sure what you mean by
"flickering". I see no such thing on my PC with a GF3.

Since it is supposedly such an obvious difference, put your money
where your mouth is and lets see some screenshots.

Seemingly, some folks are still stuck in the past though. ;)