rec.autos.simulators

Very OT-How Smart Are My Fellow Americans? :-)

Nick

Very OT-How Smart Are My Fellow Americans? :-)

by Nick » Sat, 23 Nov 2002 00:58:55



> > You support the people who give you money, it's an obvious concept.

> As usual I go against the obvious :-), the last time I voted, I voted
> for a party that wants to take more of my money in taxes, go figure :-)

I always do. I pride myself in being in the upper range of intelligence in
the UK, because I realise that to improve all the things the political
parties say they will, they *need* to raise taxes, but they still say they
will *lower* taxes. Then nothing changes, except re-routing government
spending from somewhere to somewhere else - check the massive problems our
socialist government have caused the education system to meet some of their
less important policies. At least the Liberal Democrats are straight with
the voters, it's a shame that the average voter hears 'lower taxes' and is
sold, regardless of the harm caused to the country as a whole.

I also believe that if I work hard through the education system and get a
well-paid job, then all the people who dropped out as soon as they could
have *NO RIGHT* to any of my hard earnt money. I am not a supporter of a
democratic party founded on communist theories of equality and
centralisation. It is my choice if I want to help people in that situation.

How unusual for somebody in the UK to have an independent viewpoint. Oh
well, I'm used to being labelled strange - girlfriends and computers don't
mix...

Pete

Very OT-How Smart Are My Fellow Americans? :-)

by Pete » Sat, 23 Nov 2002 01:01:47

    Goy, you dammed socialist! If you keep this up Canada is
going to beat you out for most favoured place to live again. :-)

    Pete


Dave Boyl

Very OT-How Smart Are My Fellow Americans? :-)

by Dave Boyl » Sat, 23 Nov 2002 01:09:26





> > snip
> > > There are more forests in the US now than there were in the 18th
> century.

> > According to a discussion in another NG, this statement is not true...,
> > apparently Rush Limbaugh made this statement and it seems to have been
> > proven false

> > ---
> > "Do you know we have more acreage of forest land in the United States
> > today than we did at the time the Constitution was written?" said
> > Limbaugh. In fact, in what are now the 50 U.S. states, there were at
> > least 850 million acres of forest land in the late 1700s, vs. only 730
> > million acres today.

> > Limbaugh's rebuttal is a lengthy dodge, which compares the amount of
> > forest land in the U.S. today to that in 1920. But the Constitution was
> > written in 1787, not 1920.

> > http://www.fair.org/press-releases/fair-limbaugh-rebuttal.html

> I think you got rolled....

> At the time the Constitution was written there were only 13 'colonies' on
> the East coast, the Louisiana purchase hadn't been made yet. So of the 850
> million acres of forest land in the late 1700s, most of it wasn't part of
> the United States at the time...

Does it really matter? I think if you were to compare forest acreage in the
New England between 1700 and no it would show a massive deforestation. But
then that would be the type of stat used by the environmentalists (very
misleading). Although, as I understand it, most of the deforestation in that
part of the country happened before 1700, so I'm not so sure.

But if the numbers that Goy has in his message are close, I would hardly
classify that as "massive deforestation". Now if they were to measure the
forests in board feet, I imagine that would show a more significant drop.
Yeah, I can just see the day when an environmentalist backed study measures
the forests in board feet, lol.

Goy Larse

Very OT-How Smart Are My Fellow Americans? :-)

by Goy Larse » Sat, 23 Nov 2002 01:08:50


> I think you got rolled....

> At the time the Constitution was written there were only 13 'colonies' on
> the East coast, the Louisiana purchase hadn't been made yet. So of the 850
> million acres of forest land in the late 1700s, most of it wasn't part of
> the United States at the time...

Not quite sure where you're heading with this.....?

They compared the acreage of what is now the 50 states to acreage of the
same area in the 18th century.....even the guy who made the original
statement backed off on it and claimed he was talking about something
else, which may or may not be true and has no bearing on this, but at
least he was convinced that his original statement as quoted by FAIR
couldn't be backed up

They could have gone the other way of course and compared the acreage
within the 13 original states to the acreage of these states today, but
if that number backed up Limbaugh's statement I'd be surprised if he
didn't take that route, he's not just anybody in American Broadcasting
after all

I'm not a fan of his btw, I caught his show while on vacation in the US
last year and I was less than impressed :-), but you don't get to where
he is without having the support of a decent research team or people
would have nailed his ass once and for all

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy
"goyl at nettx dot no"

"The Pits"    http://www.theuspits.com/

"A man is only as old as the woman he feels"
--Groucho Marx--

Uwe Schuerkam

Very OT-How Smart Are My Fellow Americans? :-)

by Uwe Schuerkam » Sat, 23 Nov 2002 01:05:59

[snip snip]

Dingding! Ishmael time! Don't talk of the human race when you
actually talk about a single culture gone horribly wrong. There
are very many intelligent people living on this planet, not
overrunning it, not exploiting it and poisoning the earth, not
replicating like rats and also not waging constant war on each
other.

Ok, they've become rare and hard to find, but that's because
our culture has overrun them, assimilated them or outright
killed them whereever these two worldviews met.

Cheers,

uwe

PS: Read "Ishmael" by Dan Quinn. You will find it most
interesting.

--
mail replies to Uwe at schuerkamp dot de ( yahoo address is spambox)
Uwe Schuerkamp //////////////////////////// http://www.schuerkamp.de/
Herford, Germany \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ (52.0N/8.5E)
GPG Fingerprint:  2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F  67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61

GTX_SlotCa

Very OT-How Smart Are My Fellow Americans? :-)

by GTX_SlotCa » Sat, 23 Nov 2002 01:20:29

"David G Fisher" wrote
me.

Yes, David, you are a liberal. I'm a conservative. I'm convinced this
balance is what makes this country work.

If we're growing enough crops to waste, how can you say we're devoting too
much land to cattle ranching? Most of the chemicals for farming are now
biodegradable, so they shouldn't be polluting our environment. In that
respect, we're in much better shape now than we were in the 40's and 50's. I
think that's something to be proud of.

I picked that century to make a point. The fact is we have more forest in
this country than we have had, ever, even in the Northeast (which was more
forested than the rest of the country). Much of the country from the western
border of NY to the western and southern borders of NJ was grassland, as was
much of the rest of the country. The forests weren't devastated in the 18th
century, they  have simply spread. In more recent history, control of forest
fires has added to this. At one time forest fires would consume millions of
acres of trees. As a side note, the Rain Forests we hear so much about
didn't exist until about 25 thousand years ago.

 Yes, we should learn from history. I think the biggest crisis we face is
decadence and m***decay. It's been the demise of each major civilization
in history. We should learn form it, or it could be ours.
As for overpopulation, cutting Clinton's balls off should go a long way
towards solving that problem :-)

This really isn't the best place for this kind of discussion, I suppose. I'd
hate to have someone slam me into the wall at Daytona just because I'm a
conservative :-)
Am I still on your Christmas Card list??

--
Slot

Tweaks & Reviews
www.slottweak.com

Goy Larse

Very OT-How Smart Are My Fellow Americans? :-)

by Goy Larse » Sat, 23 Nov 2002 01:19:56


> Does it really matter? I think if you were to compare forest acreage in the
> New England between 1700 and no it would show a massive deforestation. But
> then that would be the type of stat used by the environmentalists (very
> misleading). Although, as I understand it, most of the deforestation in that
> part of the country happened before 1700, so I'm not so sure.

> But if the numbers that Goy has in his message are close, I would hardly
> classify that as "massive deforestation". Now if they were to measure the
> forests in board feet, I imagine that would show a more significant drop.
> Yeah, I can just see the day when an environmentalist backed study measures
> the forests in board feet, lol.

Hi Dave :-)

Depends on the def of massive of course, if we compare it to what's
going on with the Rain Forrests in some countries, then I'd agree with
you that's nothing massive about it, but it's still a 15% drop in
acreage wich is a pretty hefty amount of forest in a country the size of
the US, the more important question of course being if the numbers are
rising or falling and what's being done with it

Anyways, I agree that in the context of things it's hardly massive, I
was merely pointing out that it appears that there's less acreage now,
not more, and it was kinda funny to see that statement in this NG as
there was a huge debate over in the "other" group about Limbaugh and
this particular statement was used as an example of what he says and how
he says it, all within a couple of days of each other :-)

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy
"goyl at nettx dot no"

"The Pits"    http://www.theuspits.com/

"A man is only as old as the woman he feels"
--Groucho Marx--

Goy Larse

Very OT-How Smart Are My Fellow Americans? :-)

by Goy Larse » Sat, 23 Nov 2002 01:25:37


>     Goy, you dammed socialist! If you keep this up Canada is
> going to beat you out for most favoured place to live again. :-)

Hiya Pete :-)

I've since repented, I no longer vote as the current crop of politicians
disgusts me, since I've got no time/interest in running for office
myself, I've realized that all I can do is try to make sure that my
little piece of the earth is in a little better shape when I pack it in
than it was when I arrived, I'm not having too much success

Canada eh, they say Canadians are just Americans without guns, doesn't
sound too bad as I've met very few Americans I didn't like

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy
"goyl at nettx dot no"

"The Pits"    http://www.theuspits.com/

"A man is only as old as the woman he feels"
--Groucho Marx--

Xavie

Very OT-How Smart Are My Fellow Americans? :-)

by Xavie » Sat, 23 Nov 2002 01:27:07

 > (...)
 >
Dave,

I understand that feeling.  Be assured that in Europe there is certainly
no general hostility towards the American population as a whole, quite
the opposite. However, thanks to the combined efforts from Cheeney,
Rumsfeld, Ashcroft, Bush and the like we do not take everything coming
from the US as the best thing since sliced bread anymore.

During the last forty years, America has lost a bit of its post-WW2
magical image here, as more and more Europeans travel there for business
or vacation.  Not that this is a bad thing, we now have more realistic
expectations on both the positive and sometimes negative aspects of our
big neighbour. And we still like the guys who brought us the Apple II,
the Internet, the Boeing 707 and the Moon ! Not to mention GPL and N2K2.

I think that the vast majority of the fellow simracers posting in this
thread do not intend to bash America itself, but sure enough they
question certain policies (Iraq=Terror) or priorities (education and
sustainable development versus defence budgets) of its government.

Besides, does Dubya's GPLRank really matter ?  ;)

Regards,
Xavier.

--

"The stone age didn't end for a lack of stone" -- Firoz Rasul

GTX_SlotCa

Very OT-How Smart Are My Fellow Americans? :-)

by GTX_SlotCa » Sat, 23 Nov 2002 01:30:13

You guys should remember that Kennedy would not have been president if it
weren't for the elect***college.




> >And thankfully, it worked.

> Except for that bit where we pretend to be the beacon of democracy for
> the world even though we aren't a democracy, sure.

> Jason

SimRace

Very OT-How Smart Are My Fellow Americans? :-)

by SimRace » Sat, 23 Nov 2002 01:35:46



<SNIP>

Nothing could be farther from the truth than this statement. It's the
Clinton/Gore blind followers and all these tree huggers that prevent us from
actually getting to one of OUR own largest oil reserves in ANWAR. They are
also the same people that bankrolled the blockade of the large oil reserve
found off the coast of my home state, NC. Your liberal friends indeed want
us to continue getting oil from the mideast AND the civil war torn areas of
South America. Lest we have any environmental crisis here in the US.

And don't talk to me about electric cars either. They will never catch on
within the mass populus within our lifetime.

GTX_SlotCa

Very OT-How Smart Are My Fellow Americans? :-)

by GTX_SlotCa » Sat, 23 Nov 2002 01:36:29

Well, except for being #1 in food production and technology, and the most
driving and stable force in the world economy. Oh, and #1 in giving away
money to politically insignificant countries.

Nick

Very OT-How Smart Are My Fellow Americans? :-)

by Nick » Sat, 23 Nov 2002 01:38:45



> > > Source: http://www.racesimcentral.net/
> > > (not exactly a communist news network, I think)

> > Currently a socialist one, as Labour are in power. An anti-American one,
> > too.

> Tony B's "New" Labour are most definately NOT socialist, their change
> heavily to the right was the only way they could get in power ;)

'New' Labour's swing to the right indeed was the only way to get in power,
but once the achieved it, they returned (slowly) to their usual stance. They
remain the only political party that has had a really bad influence on my
life, with their ignorant and unbelievable education policies, and
centralisation issues. Oh, and transport, where hiking fuel tax brought the
entire country to a halt, because they forgot that the part of England
outside the M25 doesn't have any park-and-ride facilities, especially down
here in the South West. Last time the government of England tried to
selectively tax to that extent, it resulted in the creation of the United
States of America as an independant country from the British Empire. But
still motorists are being taxed more and more, if not from fuel tax at the
moment, then from 'speed-tax', thanks to GATSO. The fact that all income
from speeding fines goes straight to the police force does not cover that it
is a tax. Why do we see more police on the roads with radar guns at the end
of the month? To get their budget up. Need I mention that the price of
petrol per litre in Gibraltar is around 54p? Over here it was hitting 90p
before we blockaded all the distributors and brought the country to a
complete standstill. Oh, and now they are refusing to raise the pay for
firefighters from a measly 21k to around 30k a year (still vastly lower
than they should get for risking their lives on a daily basis for people
they don't know), because they don't have the money. Why not steal some more
education budget? Who cares about the Non-Urgent Critical issues (like the
state of the country when the people suffering from these education
screw-ups become leaders of political parties and CEOs of major
corporations), when there are Urgent Critical issues to attend to, like the
lack of a Fire Service over the next 8 days.

Okay, hit a tangent there, but Labour have been slowly swinging back left
ever since they arrived... There is nothing stopping them, because the
Conservatives are in a mess which is just getting worse (now they have
people abstaining from Three Line Whips, which is politi-speak for mutiny),
and the Liberal Democrats don't lie enough about lowering taxes to ever get
enough votes.

Most of the population of England are fundamentally anti-American. I don't
know why. Maybe it is a thing passed on from generation to generation since
1776, maybe it is our traitorous shift in policy over Israel which the US
didn't reflect, maybe it is the fall of the British Empire, started by the
American War of Independence, to be replaced by America (the ultimate
kick-while-your down), maybe it is a whole bunch of things. But it is
impossible to get any independent reporting of American news in the UK,
because all news reports are tinged with anti-Americanisms. You don't really
notice them until you start watching American news shows. I'm not saying
that American news services are not biased, but when you have seen news
reports from an American (or even better, an independent) viewpoint, then
you watch the BBC reports, you can see the subtle twisting of context away
from the American side of things.

For example, that incident where the Americans accidentally bombed
friendlies in Afghanistan, left everybody I know saying how stupid Americans
are, etc etc. Like when they changed the name of the Harry Potter film from
The Philosophers Stone to The Sorcerers Stone for the American audience, it
prompted comments of 'Americans are so stupid, they can't understand words
with 4 syllables', etc.

The only things that can influence a ***agers' outlook on certain issues
(before they learn, if ever, to find out for themselves) are parental
influences and media influences. Influences from friends are pretty
non-existant on things like this, because nobody this age is knowledgable
enough to sway everybody else. Parental influences are different for each
individual, but everybody sees the same thing on TV, and so TV conditions
each individual (mostly in a partially subliminal way over many years) by
adding certain leanings to reports in order to sway the masses.

Having close connections to the education system, especially the A-Level
fiasco perpetrated by Labour trying to fix things which simply weren't
broken, and seeing exactly how far off the mark all the reporting was on the
subject by all the news services, I have finally come to realise that if
they can be that wrong on something as widespread and fundamental as that,
then what evidence is there that any other reporting has more basis in fact
or neutral comment? Everytime somebody asked me about the A-Level problem, I
ended up in arguments, because I was telling these people what was actually
happening, and what the situation was, and they were telling me I was wrong
because that's not what they heard on BBC. It is so infuriating.

It's something we have to live with. All news reporting is biased, you just
need to read/see enough and pick out the common facts to form your own
conclusions - something which is a lot harder to do than it is to say.

Goy Larse

Very OT-How Smart Are My Fellow Americans? :-)

by Goy Larse » Sat, 23 Nov 2002 01:40:13





> > > You support the people who give you money, it's an obvious concept.

> > As usual I go against the obvious :-), the last time I voted, I voted
> > for a party that wants to take more of my money in taxes, go figure :-)

> I always do. I pride myself in being in the upper range of intelligence in
> the UK, because I realise that to improve all the things the political
> parties say they will, they *need* to raise taxes, but they still say they
> will *lower* taxes. Then nothing changes, except re-routing government
> spending from somewhere to somewhere else - check the massive problems our
> socialist government have caused the education system to meet some of their
> less important policies. At least the Liberal Democrats are straight with
> the voters, it's a shame that the average voter hears 'lower taxes' and is
> sold, regardless of the harm caused to the country as a whole.

> I also believe that if I work hard through the education system and get a
> well-paid job, then all the people who dropped out as soon as they could
> have *NO RIGHT* to any of my hard earnt money. I am not a supporter of a
> democratic party founded on communist theories of equality and
> centralisation. It is my choice if I want to help people in that situation.

> How unusual for somebody in the UK to have an independent viewpoint. Oh
> well, I'm used to being labelled strange - girlfriends and computers don't
> mix...

One of the guys at "The Pits" has plans to become *** rich, he's
young :-), and if he does he's going to buy himself a small island to
live on far away from politics and other stupid stuff, sounds like a
plan to me and I'm prepared to chip in with whatever I've got....:-)

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy
"goyl at nettx dot no"

"The Pits"    http://www.racesimcentral.net/

"A man is only as old as the woman he feels"
--Groucho Marx--

JoH

Very OT-How Smart Are My Fellow Americans? :-)

by JoH » Sat, 23 Nov 2002 01:44:42

On Thu, 21 Nov 2002 15:55:47 +0000 (UTC), "Vennt"



>> > Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/2167515.stm
>> > (not exactly a communist news network, I think)

>> Currently a socialist one, as Labour are in power. An anti-American one,
>> too.

>Tony B's "New" Labour are most definately NOT socialist, their change
>heavily to the right was the only way they could get in power ;)

>Anti-American? Huh? Elaborate if you would.

>Vennt.

Now that would be something... Over here, Tony B. is regarded as
Bush's lapdog for God's sake!

I'm beginning to understand what they mean when they say Americans
have no clue about how they are regarded abroad, LOL.

JoH


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