rec.autos.simulators

Legal Freon Substitute

Mel Lamme

Legal Freon Substitute

by Mel Lamme » Thu, 20 Jun 1996 04:00:00

<SNIP>
Maybe we could abandon this topic or put it on an every other week
status?

Mel Lamme

Legal Freon Substitute

by Mel Lamme » Thu, 20 Jun 1996 04:00:00

<SNIP>

But they are arresting the smugglers of R-12.  Just ask the lady in
Florida who is now in jail.

Lloyd R. Park

Legal Freon Substitute

by Lloyd R. Park » Thu, 20 Jun 1996 04:00:00


: >
: > >:
: > >: At the same time, I currently don't have a problem with using the new
: > >: refrigerant in my '95 Saturn, and my '66 Mustang doesn't have an A/C,
: > >: so I guess I'm currently in good shape.
: > >:
: > >: I've seen both the media as well as research scientists balloon facts
: > >: in order to get attention (Pons-Fleischmann is a good example),
: >
: > >But cold fusion was never accepted by the scientific community.  Ozone
: > >depletion, OTOH, is accepted and again, Rowland et al won a Nobel Prize
: > >for it.
:
: Nope, ozone depletion theory is NOT universally accepted as anything
: more than a theory.  

It IS accepted by the vast majority of the scientific community.  You
should learn what "theory" means in science -- it is the currently
accepted explanation of something.  it does NOT mean a guess.  And to
forestall the inevitable, a theory cannot become a law.  A law summarizes
data; it doesn't explain.  We have the theory of gravity, theory of
evolution, quantum theory, etc. -- all scientifically accepted theories.  
The CFC-ozone theory is just as accepted.

: Many reputable members of the scientific community
: dismiss it as pure unsubstantiated conjecture.  

No they don't.  If they did, the originators wouldn't have won a Nobel
Prize, their articles wouldn't be accepted in all reputable journals, the
industrialized world wouldn't have agreed to the Montreal Protocol.  The
chemistry behind it is simple and the evidence is overwhelming.

: In fact, today's NY
: Times (June 18 edition) has an article on this subject you should read.

There are dozens of articles in scientific journals you should read.  The
NY Times is not a peer-reviewed scientific journal.

Mel Lamme

Legal Freon Substitute

by Mel Lamme » Thu, 20 Jun 1996 04:00:00

<snip>
Enough already

Henry H Hanste

Legal Freon Substitute

by Henry H Hanste » Thu, 20 Jun 1996 04:00:00


: > There's a better way. Once you get rolling in reverse, pause in neutral
: >with the throttle wide open, engine on the rev limiter. Then and only
: >then is it appropriate to select first gear. Hope this helps.

: Otherwise known as a "neutral-drop."
: Jeez...these kids nowadays...think they invented everything, sheesh!
: William "Wild Bill" Corona  RotRotKotL  DoD# 1665    Axe ***er #1

 One word of caution. If you happen to rent a front wheel drive vehicle,
and you're cruising down the highway about 65-70, pause in neutral, throttle
wide open to get the r's up, and then select reverse, you will need to get
a replacement rental car. Kind of inconvenient while on vacation but it's
valuable fatigue limit testing.
 Henry

s.a.sulliv

Legal Freon Substitute

by s.a.sulliv » Thu, 20 Jun 1996 04:00:00

On page 128 of the July issue of Car Craft magazine there is an article
that says" Pennzoil FR-12 Refrigerant" Pennzoil Products has become the
distributor for FRIGC, FR-12 refrigerant. Its properties are virtually  
identical to R-12, also known as Freon, the most widely used automotive
A/C system refrigerant. However, R-12 is now banned by the EPA.* RE-12
solves the problem of having to undergo costly changes with an R-12 A/C
system. It's ready to use with only  minimal system adaptation and has
been accepted by the EPA. New cars now use R-134a and older R-12 systems
can't use R-134a without significant alterations. The FR-12 refrigerant
is compatible with R-12 systems. Contact your local auto parts dealer.

*Production of R-12 is banned not the use.

The above not including the asterisk is a word for word quote from
Pennzoil and Car Craft mag. So this stuff is apparently real and
it is not 134a. It looks like anyone hoarding R-12 is going to be
out of alot of money in the near future.

steve

--
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxSteve Sullivan                    x      Work sucks, I'd rather be racing.....
ATT Bell Labs                     x      # 77

s.a.sulliv

Legal Freon Substitute

by s.a.sulliv » Thu, 20 Jun 1996 04:00:00

I agree with the guy that said bullshit.

This is what happens to the ozone layer. Ultraviolet light attacks the cfc    
molecule, and in the process breaks off the chlorine atom, which in turn
attacks ozone molecules, creating oxygen gas and chlorine monoxide. Then
the chlorine atom throws off the oxygen atom and repeats the process, up
to 100,000 times. This means that one cfc molecule can destroy up to
100,000 ozone molecules. The 1974 Molina-Rowland theory explains this in
detail. Every a/c tech knows this. The 1987 Montreal Protocol between the
U.S. and 22 other countries put into effect a program to control then
eliminate cfc's altogether. The really scarey part is that in 1992 it is
estimated that 680,000 tons of cfc's were dumped into the atmosphere.
And it is thought that most of what has been released in the last 30 years
might not have even gotten to the stratosphere yet. So we are not over the
hump yet.
  This info is directly from the Refrigerant Transition and Recovery
Certification Program for HVACR Technicians, put out by ACCA (air conditioning
contractors of America) and Ferris State University.

steve
l
--
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxSteve Sullivan                    x      Work sucks, I'd rather be racing.....
ATT Bell Labs                     x      # 77

Philip K

Legal Freon Substitute

by Philip K » Thu, 20 Jun 1996 04:00:00



> S>  Then The first thing I do is get on the highway in 1st gear and
> S> leave it there for a while. If I am at a location with drive able
> S> beaches like in Galveston Texas I take a spin on the sand at about
> S> 100 Mph and do doughnuts.  Another favorite is to put the AIR on
> S> high and If I am waiting at a Stoplight I run it up in neutral
> S> till the rev-limiter kicks er off and on and hold it there and
> S> slam it into gear.

>This is so juvenile.  It reminds me of a conversation I had with a
>friend of mine when I was in 2nd grade ("It doesn't matter if I break
>your bike, because it's not mine--and I won't be upset").  

>I suppose you are also the kind of person who trashes hotel rooms?

> S>  The Lincoln I had started smoking after 2 days of this so I took
> S> it to a car wash cleaned it in and out , called the 1-800 # and
> S> told em to come get the damn thing and they do every time!

>Funny thing, that.  You'd think they would recognize you by now.

> S>  I feel its my right to do this. Cause if guys like me dont they
> S> will SHAFT the rest of you with the cars at 30,000 miles and I
> S> guarantee they wont keep the ones I drive that long......

>This just simply wrong.  If you trash their cars, that merely means
>that the rental companies will have to accommodate for the cost of the
>lost car by charging more to rent them out to people like us.  Don't
>think for a second that you are doing ANYBODY a "favor" by trashing
>rental cars.  Quite the opposite, in fact.  Any 5th-grader can tell
>you, that as you force the expenses of the rental company to go up,
>they will merely adapt for it by charging their other customers more.
>WE are the people that pay for your irresponsibility, NOT the rental
>companies.

>As for the 30,000 miles: This is an even sillier argument.  Would you
>rather be driving in a car that has been driven nicely for 30,000
>miles, or a car that has been driven by someone like you for 10,000?
>Easy question.

> S>  I know a lot of you wont agree with me and might even get a
> S> little pissed. But it needs to be done, I have been doing it for 9
> S> years now and never had a problem.....at least I never had
> S> one.....heheheh LOL ROTFL -- Stop =-POLICE-= ***.  E-Mail

><sigh>

> S>   Your comments always welcome

>It's people like you who give us Americans a bad name.  

>Think how much nicer life would be if people like you could learn to
>respect other people's property, instead of trying to find any chance
>possible to destroy it.

>This is depressing.

>--Georgi

GOOD saying, Georgi.
Jay Pon

Legal Freon Substitute

by Jay Pon » Thu, 20 Jun 1996 04:00:00



> S>  Then The first thing I do is get on the highway in 1st gear and
> S> leave it there for a while. If I am at a location with drive able
> S> beaches like in Galveston Texas I take a spin on the sand at about
> S> 100 Mph and do doughnuts.  Another favorite is to put the AIR on
> S> high and If I am waiting at a Stoplight I run it up in neutral
> S> till the rev-limiter kicks er off and on and hold it there and
> S> slam it into gear.
>This is depressing.

Depending on your outlook.  I found it very entertaining and don't for
a minute believe any of it.  Besides even if it was true what
percentage of the US population that rents cars do you honestly think
participates in this kind of behavior?  Did it influence you to act
this way?  Do you think there are a bunch of people sitting on the
fence between "should I" or "shouldn't I" that it swayed?  NOT!!
Jay Pon

Legal Freon Substitute

by Jay Pon » Thu, 20 Jun 1996 04:00:00



>: That story is hiliarous!!  I loved it.  One other thing you might add
>: to your bag of outstanding rental car tricks is to put it in reverse,
>: slam the accelerator home till you get up to about 30 or 40 mph and
>: then drop her in drive and slam it home again.
> There's a better way. Once you get rolling in reverse, pause in neutral
>with the throttle wide open, engine on the rev limiter. Then and only
>then is it appropriate to select first gear. Hope this helps.
> Henry

Thanks for the rental car tip Henry, I think it will help.  Nice to
see some fun guys around here.
Math..

Legal Freon Substitute

by Math.. » Thu, 20 Jun 1996 04:00:00

As the Enviro-Nazis in this country***with the best refridgerant known to man,
by curtailing the production (NOV 1995),  three new FREON manufacturing plants
are being built in India.  The consumer in the US can't service the air conditioners
in their older cars ( which will go away by natural attrition ), unless you are willing to
pay some repair shop that has invested in expensive recovery/recycling equipment.
My question is,  why do we as citizens and consumers have to pay for this cost when
the rest of the world that signed this environmental agreement is violating it in the
very face of our gutless leadership (spell that Clinton, as in Slick Willie).  

I want my R-12 back!    And I want it now!

Old FORD Freak
from California

Whatbra

Legal Freon Substitute

by Whatbra » Thu, 20 Jun 1996 04:00:00


Not so. That vast majority only believe it harms the ozone so they will
get more cash from the US government to stury how to "fix" the problem.
The money these guys get is very substantial andif I was being handed over
that kind of cash i would tell you that the moon was made of green cheese.

Gene

Jay Goldber

Legal Freon Substitute

by Jay Goldber » Thu, 20 Jun 1996 04:00:00


>         My mechanic also stated that FREON-12 is still available but the
>         cost is $2/oz.  In the typical system needing 3 - 4 lbs of FREON,
>         your recharge cost will be $120 for the material plus the "EPA fee".
>         The total recharge cost was put at $400.

I think the quoted cost includes the EPA tax.  I bought a couple of cans on
June 1 (yeah, I found out the hard way that if I bought a day earlier I would
have saved $3/can).

Anyway, I paid $14.99 for a 12 oz. can.  That puts it ~ $60 for materials for
a recharge.

Jay

S.L. Marti

Legal Freon Substitute

by S.L. Marti » Thu, 20 Jun 1996 04:00:00

 I am dating myself on that one ! Its the 100 LL , it used to be 130 in
1988 when I used to get it. but its blue and makes em run hot and
knocks fire out of the pistons





>>  Another thing to do is take the rental car to a local small
airstrip
>> and buy some of the class c aviation fuel its about 130 octane and
put
>> that in the tank and hit the road!!

>At least you should know what to ask for at the airstrip.  There's no
such
>thing as "Class C" aviation fuel.  What you want is 100 octane low
lead
>(100LL).  That and Jet A for the turbines are about the only types of
fuel
>you'll find at an airstrip these days.  Your rental car won't run on
>Jet-A, it's basically kerosene. The 100LL will probably make your car
>accelerate a little quicker, but I'm afraid it won't make it run much
>faster.  And it costs $2 to $3 per gallon.   There used to be an
aviation
>fuel that was rated at 80 octane.  It would make a car engine knock
like
>you wouldn't believe.  A few days of that, and the valves and pistons
>would be history.

>C. Marin Faure
>   author, Flying a Floatplane

--
Stop =-POLICE-= ***.
 E-Mail

  Your comments always welcome

S.L. Marti

Legal Freon Substitute

by S.L. Marti » Thu, 20 Jun 1996 04:00:00



>Please...stop

Ok Ill stop !! But its not my fault to all of those who reply!!!
--
Stop =-POLICE-= ***.
 E-Mail

  Your comments always welcome


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