rec.autos.simulators

by **Goy Larse** » Fri, 11 Oct 2002 20:42:12

> > >I'm not a movie buff and I have a TV that was decent when it was new, 5
> > >years ago :-) so I'm not investing a lot of money in this, for me it's
> > >either a cheap DVD player or a console.....would you say that the
> > >consoles' picture quality is a lot worse than a 200 dollar DVD player ?

> > Not IMO. We use the SVGA connector though so that makes a little
> > difference. But unless you have an HDTV I doubt you will see a big
> > dif.

> Remember that there are no such thing as HDTV in Europe yet, and we
> also have the RGB connection which for mysterious reasons lack on
> american tv's. The big question is if the X-box can put out DVD
> picture in RGB ? The PS2 can't.

Ah hah, the plot thickens

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy

"The Pits" http://www.racesimcentral.net/

"A man is only as old as the woman he feels"
--Groucho Marx--

by **Gunnar Horrigm** » Fri, 11 Oct 2002 21:15:16

> > We use the PS2 as a DVD player. Yes, it's a bit slow but I don't rent
> > movies every day so it's a minor inconvenience really. I've heard the
> > PS2 has problems with some movies (haven't come across any myself) so
> > you may be better off with the X-Box as a DVD player.

> I've got an Xbox and the DVD picture quality leaves a lot to be desired...

it's the same story with the PS2 DVD-player. it does have a bunch of
really good games, though.

--
Gunnar
Cougar#02748 #31 SUCKS#015 Tupperware MC#002 DoD#0x1B DoDRT#003 DoD:CT#4,8 Kibo: 2
gitaren er en sjingke

by **Joe M** » Sat, 12 Oct 2002 00:10:02

> > Both consoles absolutely suck compared to a nice progressive scan
player.
> > Understandable given the cost difference but still an important
> > consideration if you like movies. The amazing picture of progressive
scan
> > player is a fine compliment to a digital TV.

> Ok......but I assume that these 200 dollar DVD players you can get in
> chain stores aren't progressive scan ?

> I'm not a movie buff and I have a TV that was decent when it was new, 5
> years ago :-) so I'm not investing a lot of money in this, for me it's
> either a cheap DVD player or a console.....would you say that the
> consoles' picture quality is a lot worse than a 200 dollar DVD player ?

You're fine with a console. You'll only see the true difference on a
digital set with component cables. Using composite video or s-video I think
a console is an ideal choice since you have the option to play the
occasional game.

--
Joe M.

by **Dave Henri** » Sat, 12 Oct 2002 00:12:05

if you bought recently and paid closer to 1000 dollars than 200 then you
have progressive scan. If you got on the dvd train early, you don't have
it.

dave henrie

by **Goy Larse** » Sat, 12 Oct 2002 00:22:14

> You're fine with a console. You'll only see the true difference on a
> digital set with component cables. Using composite video or s-video I think
> a console is an ideal choice since you have the option to play the
> occasional game.

Ok, thx mate :-), so I guess an XboX it is then

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy

"The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/

"A man is only as old as the woman he feels"
--Groucho Marx--

by **Goy Larse** » Sat, 12 Oct 2002 00:53:22

> I can only speak from my experience. We had a cheap DVD standalone
> player and then switched to PS2 and I can not see a difference in the
> picture quality - honestly.This on a standard JVC 28" TV. But then I
> never compared them side by side. The only place here I see superior
> DVD was on my 22" Nec computer monitor, but I'm now using an LCD
> monitor and the shadows and blacks on LCD suck compared to a good CRT.
> Ask to see Xbox DVD in action at the store and then look at a
> comaparatively priced DVD standalone and decide for yourself. Use same
> quality TV for comaprison though.

Ok, thx again for the input guys, I'm leaning towards an XboX

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy

"The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/

"A man is only as old as the woman he feels"
--Groucho Marx--

by **Ruud van Ga** » Sat, 12 Oct 2002 00:53:38

>> Remember that there are no such thing as HDTV in Europe yet, and we
>> also have the RGB connection which for mysterious reasons lack on
>> american tv's. The big question is if the X-box can put out DVD
>> picture in RGB ? The PS2 can't.

>Ah hah, the plot thickens

My cheap DVD player (200 euro's one year ago) can though.
Just to add to the confusion. ;-)

Ruud van Gaal
Free car sim: http://www.racer.nl/
Pencil art : http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/

by **Goy Larse** » Sat, 12 Oct 2002 01:15:26

> >> Remember that there are no such thing as HDTV in Europe yet, and we
> >> also have the RGB connection which for mysterious reasons lack on
> >> american tv's. The big question is if the X-box can put out DVD
> >> picture in RGB ? The PS2 can't.

> >Ah hah, the plot thickens

> My cheap DVD player (200 euro's one year ago) can though.
> Just to add to the confusion. ;-)

So does my 3 year old DVD player, with a 2 year warranty, which is about
to blow up, it's been a nice experience overall though, I've got it
hooked up to a Creative DTT 2500 surround system, cheep and cheerful
home theater :-)

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy

"The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/

"A man is only as old as the woman he feels"
--Groucho Marx--

by **Don Burnett** » Sat, 12 Oct 2002 09:26:47

>> How can you tell if you have a progressive scan player?
>> I have heard this mentioned before, but I do not see any thing about
>> progressive scan in the setup options in my dvd player.

>> Don Burnette

> if you bought recently and paid closer to 1000 dollars than 200
> then you have progressive scan. If you got on the dvd train early,
> you don't have it.

> dave henrie

Well, I bought about a year and a half ago, and nowhere near 1,000 , so it
must not be :).

Thanks,

Don Burnette

by **Joe M** » Sun, 13 Oct 2002 00:37:08

Actually, progressive scan players are selling as low as $150 US recently.
Not sure about the quality. I have a pricier Pioneer Elite ($700 about a
year ago) and I cannot say enough about the picture quality.

The easiest way to eliminate your DVD from progressive scan contention is a
lack of component video output since progressive is not available via s-vid
or composite. Beyond this, there should be some menu setting to enable
progressive scan. On my player there's a progressive scan LED on the front
to show when it's enabled.

--
Joe M.

> >> How can you tell if you have a progressive scan player?
> >> I have heard this mentioned before, but I do not see any thing about
> >> progressive scan in the setup options in my dvd player.

> >> Don Burnette

> > if you bought recently and paid closer to 1000 dollars than 200
> > then you have progressive scan. If you got on the dvd train early,
> > you don't have it.

> > dave henrie

> Well, I bought about a year and a half ago, and nowhere near 1,000 , so it
> must not be :).

> Thanks,

> Don Burnette

by **Joe M** » Sun, 13 Oct 2002 00:47:36

> > You're fine with a console. You'll only see the true difference on a
> > digital set with component cables. Using composite video or s-video I
think
> > a console is an ideal choice since you have the option to play the
> > occasional game.

> Ok, thx mate :-), so I guess an XboX it is then

You're welcome. You won't be disappointed. I'm a *** sim fan
(racing/flight), tactical shooter fan and occasional strategy and rpg fan.
To me the computer is still king yet I still enjoy the Xbox. If you have
any interest in sports then you'll love the xbox. It's also a fun to play
platform games or fighting games with the kids if you have any of those
rambling around. ;0)

Additionally, there is the potential of a game like Project Gotham Racing 2
for racing fans. It will feature more refined physics, a nice choice of
sports cars (Porsche 911 GT2, Ferrari, etc), and online racing via xbox
live. If they add a decent steering wheel I like the prospects for this
game.

BTW, in the US the Xbox is currently available with a free DVD kit (remote
and "activation" for DVD playback) after rebate. Shortly, a new bundle is
coming with the "S" controller (preferable to the larger original
controller) and 2 fun games Sega GT 2002 and JSRF (cell shaded game that has
received great reviews).

Enjoy. :-)

--
Joe M.

by **Joe M** » Sun, 13 Oct 2002 04:32:31

> On Fri, 11 Oct 2002 11:37:08 -0400, "Joe M."

> >Actually, progressive scan players are selling as low as $150 US
recently.
> >Not sure about the quality. I have a pricier Pioneer Elite ($700 about a
> >year ago) and I cannot say enough about the picture quality.

> >The easiest way to eliminate your DVD from progressive scan contention is
a
> >lack of component video output since progressive is not available via
s-vid
> >or composite. Beyond this, there should be some menu setting to enable
> >progressive scan. On my player there's a progressive scan LED on the
front
> >to show when it's enabled.

> And what exactly does Progrssive Scan do?

Visual quality. It's the difference between a TV and a PC monitor:
interlaced vs. progressive. A TV with 480 lines of resolution doesn't show
all 480 lines for every screen update (1/60th second). Instead, a TV
displays only 1/2 the picture every 1/60th of a second. The first "field"
is comprised of the odd numbered lines and the next field is the even
numbered lines. It takes two fields to build ONE full frame of video.
Although it's fast, you never actually see one full frame of video at the
SAME TIME.

Progressive scan shows a full field of video EVERY 1/60th of a second. That
means all the visual detail of the full frame EVERY SINGLE FRAME. Since DVD
movies are recorded in 24 frames/second progressive scanning also includes
3:2 pull-down to convert 24 full frames to 60 full frames per second. A
simple explanation is the TV alternately displays frames of DVD 3x then 2x
then 3x, etc., resulting in 60 full frames per second.

As you can imagine the picture is smoother, sharper, and has no motion
artifacts or jaggies. For DVD movies you get that "film" look where skin
tones are smooth and "creamy" (very natural and realistic), color is
saturated, and everything is just more richly detailed. If you're someone
who has a keen eye you will absolutely see the difference between
progressive and interlaced DVD.

Regarding console ***, most Xbox games are 480p (progressive) so the
graphics are remarkably nice for TV ***. The avg Xbox game runs at 60
FULL FRAMES of animation per second. It's very impressive to say the least.

--
Joe M.

by **Nic** » Sun, 13 Oct 2002 05:48:06

> Remember that there are no such thing as HDTV in Europe yet, and we
> also have the RGB connection which for mysterious reasons lack on
> american tv's. The big question is if the X-box can put out DVD
> picture in RGB ? The PS2 can't.

The PS2 can't play DVDs from out of it's region either.... unless you
go buy a Region-X CD for about 10 which allows you to play all
regions through a proper RGB Scart Cable.

by **Nic** » Sun, 13 Oct 2002 05:59:50

> When and IF the console games reach the quality of current PC games with all
> of the required accessories, as in a KB, internet connection, wheels/pedals,
> hotas's, etc etc then maybe I'll plunk down my $150. Till then there isn't
> any comparison of the two platforms.

KB, internet connection, wheels/pedals, hotas's... you mean now, right?

by **Nic** » Sun, 13 Oct 2002 06:09:07

> Um, make up your mind, is it the software, or the hardware?

It's both, in my opinion. You can't run a game on a PC without an OS,
so you must factor in the speed/compatibility of the OS into the
argument. A console has just enough to play the game, but a PC needs
to support Digital Cameras, Scanners, Printers, CD-Writers, TV Cards,
all of which are unnecessary when you are playing a game.

rec.autos.simulators

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