>> Bristol(and Darlington) will be a madhouse, we shouldn't delude ourselves
>> otherwise...
Eldred
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Homepage - http://www.racesimcentral.net/~epickett
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Eldred
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How's that? He's said that all the drivers who quit were welcome to come back
at a later date. Maybe I'm just misunderstanding what you mean, though...
Eldred
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Point taken.
Eldred
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I don't participate in RASCAR, but this situation reminds me of one of my
local (city-owned, volunteer run) tennis clubs. The new "Director of
Operations" of course does (and has done) many useful things for the club,
but they are overshadowed by his overbearing dictatorial attitude that
garnered him with the nickname "the Nazi." He too relishes rules and order
and once exclaimed that when he took over the club, it would be run like a
concentration camp. he actually thought this was a positive statement,
bringing order to the chaos that only he could see. I honestly believe that
he didn't mean anything anti-Semitic by it, but it also wouldn't surprise me
if someone was deeply offended by his comment.
John seems to me to be a similar type of person. Competent. Hard working.
Knowledgeable. Socially inept. Rules freak. It is up to RASCAR members to
decide whether the benefits outweigh the costs in having someone of that
nature "running" the operation. Because John is 100% convinced that a
"league" has to be run with these strict rules, there will be no compromise.
Like "real life," the majority won't want to get involved---just keep their
heads down and hope they can keep consuming/playing/etc. There will be the
tiny minority of vocal opponents (Mitch and DGF). There are those who
agree with the vocal opponents, but who can't bring themselves to be vocal.
Solution that hopefully all can agree to: Members should express their views
to the server owner (Eldred...and maybe John, too, if he also owns one that
could be used) as to what general level and aspect of rules they would like
used and enforced. Just keep it at the broad level, with topics like
flags/penalties; foul language; chatting during races; freedom of
discussion/expression outside the confines of a race; civility of treatment
amongst members/admins; etc.
If a majority like the "heavy" rules that seem to be in place now, then the
others should leave and go form RASCAR2, perhaps attracting back those who
have already left. If the majority only want "basic" rules that directly
affect the races themselves/racing, then John and Eldred should respect
this...or, if they can't bring themselves to do so, should resign/quit. It
really shouldn't have to degenerate into a pissing match--there aren't
enough of us ras'ers to split into hardened factions. From what I am
reading, I also don't believe that the two "camps" have irreconcilable
differences. It's more a matter of personality conflicts that can be
avoided or worked around for the benefit of continued RASCAR operations.
Best wishes!
Marc
> Just for the record, would someone please explain to me the difference in
> enjoyment between wreckers on the Sierra servers and 50% cautions in
RASCAR,
> please. Anyone who thought that doing nothing about the amount of yellows
would
> actually improve the racing must be from some other planet. So John went
all
> the way with it and Eldred has no problem with him. So what.
> Sure, John can be a hardass, and Eldred makes for a good moderate. But
does
> anyone here actually want John's job? I haven't heard ANYONE say they
want that
> responsibility.
> Not to dimish what Eldred does, in no way whatsoever, but unless I'm
mistaken,
> all he does he start/restart the server. I've had to admin And run to the
> office to jump start a server. I'd rather run to the office than try what
John
> is doing any day.
> The guy busts his ass for what is basically a pickup league with no skill
> requirements to join but rules to follow if you want to stay. What is
wrong
> with that. As far as I can tell, he has been nothing if not consistent,
which
> is a lot more than I can say for most admins.
> How many people here have actually tried to admin a league. Any league.
How
> many times did YOU get ***ed at casue you couldn't please everyone.
> IMO if John wants to run RASCAR roughshod that should be just fine with
anyone
> who wants to improve the overall racing for EVERYONE.
> --
> Tim White
> www.intracmotorsports.com
> > Hopefully, it will make the whole experience better for those who stick
> around. If it doesn't,
> > we'll just have to try something else.
> > You only fail when you stop trying...
> I speak from experience... in simracing strong, autocratic simracing
> leagues have prospered while democratic clubs have invariably
> dwindled into non-existance. I myself have turned the GPVL F3/FV
> league from a democratic participation of 4 to an autocratic (I
> prefer the term "benevolent dictator"<sp?>) regular participation of
> about 15 out of 20. IMO, there has to be someone in charge (by
> selection or by nescessity) and he will have to deal with the odd
> dissident or two, but, if he does, he can be successfull in running a
> league.
>> As I mentioned, every association or club with which
>> I've been involved since a callow youth has been
>> operated on democratic lines. They have all had their
>> share of debates and differences of opinion but none
>> have ever operated under a system where the members
>> have not been able to sanction or veto any proposals,
>> no matter how contentious or bland.
> You will note, following discussions and experiment, John dropped
> most of his IGPS influenced rules, I hope?
>> I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this point.
> Obviously.. I still have some draft game vs sport posts lined up for
> when I get around to tackling you on your earlier comments.
> Jan.
> =---
Don Burnette
--
Don Burnette
remove clothes when replying via email
It's not a history lesson, or a spelling lesson...it's Fawlty Towers.
Well, not the Sieg/Sig/Zeig Heil bit.
I thought you were one of the less serious ppl on here, anyway ?
I believe I may have mentioned the fact that Herr Simmons was an arrogant
tosser about 2 years ago...hmmmm ?
> I speak from experience... in simracing strong, autocratic simracing
> leagues have prospered while democratic clubs have invariably
> dwindled into non-existance. I myself have turned the GPVL F3/FV
> league from a democratic participation of 4 to an autocratic (I
> prefer the term "benevolent dictator"<sp?>) regular participation of
> about 15 out of 20. IMO, there has to be someone in charge (by
> selection or by nescessity) and he will have to deal with the odd
> dissident or two, but, if he does, he can be successfull in running a
> league.
> Jan.
> =---
--
Ian P
<email invalid due to spammers>
I can only think of one: not allowing anyone who thinks these tracks are any
more dangerous than anywhere else into the race.
Seriously, I fail to see the problem. If, e.g., you're worried you might get
up into the T2 wall at Darlington, then just drive the turn differently
(take an apex on the inside). It's a bit harder on the tyres and it will
cost you a little momentum, but it's feasable.
Jan.
=---
Exactly... I have been doing it for 9 years now and I happen to be good at
it. I make no excuses for that, a 4 handicap golfer wouldn't either.
Jan.
=---
I was in a GPL league where this one guy would give running commentary on
his on-track battles... highly annoying, actually, but amazing.
Jan.
=---
> And yes, Jan, no matter what slant you place on it, it is *still* a game.
>>>>Eldred controls the server that he volunteered to let us use for our ras
>>>>races.
>>>True.
>>>>Eldred needs to step in now and tell us once and for all if John is
>>>>now controlling RASCAR because Eldred let's him.
>>>And I've asked Eldred through email a couple of questions.
>>>>John certainly *thinks* he has taken control of RASCAR.
>>>>Is this true or not?
>>>Not. I won't truly have contol of RASCAR until Eldred's dead and
>>>rotting corpse is lying at my feet.
>>>I don't see that happening any timne soon.
>>What about if he was ill, and couldn't speak or wee by himself?
> Let me think about that for a while...
> Would I take advantage of a cripples inability to defent himself (or
> wee on his own)?
> Hmmmmm....
> Yeah. He'd be toast.
> :)
Gerry
> :)
> --
> Tim White
> www.intracmotorsports.com
> > In all fairness,
> > I was the one that setup, designed and maintained the website... After each
> > race I'd download the replay and results of Eldreds server, upload them to
> > ours, write a little something, and upload/post new addidtions to the roster
> > and carset.
> > All John really did was painting people's cars or telling them how to paint
> > them (according to his wishes - although they actually happend to be close
> > to mine - this time. :o))
> >Maybe my grammer is bad or Im not getting my thoughts across correctly but I
> >was one of the first guys to say we needed a few rules. It's gone way
> >beyond that now. This morning I see a post that said "If you talk about a
> >race after sunday you get penalized" or something to that effect. Do you
> >honestly think thats a rule "to make the racing better"?
> Not at all. It doesn't do a damn thing for the racing. But it eliminates(or
> lessens) the BS wars we've had here in the past.
> Eldred
"If you talk about a race after sunday you get penalized"
I said you have until Tuesday at 9pm central to get it out of your
system. How many times to I have to repeat myself before everybody
understands that?
I also never claimed it would make the racing better. But if
nobody's talking about the last race, then they're all thinking and
talking about the next race. Hopefully, the racing getting better
will be a slight side-effect of not*** onto pointless verbal
sparring for two or three weeks.
