rec.autos.simulators

My take is if John wants to run his OWN series then go create it yourself
dont come here and just TAKE charge like some 5'1" wannabee dictator.
Sometimes I really think JS wanted the racing to get as bad as it did after
Pocoho just so he could usurp and consolidate all RASCAR decisions onto
himself. (And no Im not a *** theorist)  The races have improved
drastically since Pocoho without any new rules in place.

Yea I do want a couple rules to make the racing better.  Even more important
is the quality of drivers.  We need some kind of practice race/tryout race
so we dont end up with some rook causing havoc over and over.

Another suggestion is let JS have the RASCAR ARCA series for those that wish
to participate and leave RASCAR alone for those that wish to run in an open
FUN/RESPECTFUL environment using the DEFAULT fast setups on NR2003 tracks
(not converted tracks except for fun of course).  Just as the original
RASCAR Charter prescribed.

I know I know, JS has said it hundreds of times.  "If ya dont like it quit".
How about if JS dont like it he quits?

Am I alone in my thinking here?  We've already lost some great guys that
just got fed up.  Ed come back and fight with me for the good of RASCAR.

I cant imagine Im the only RASCAR driver that feels this way?  If I am then
its time for me to go back to Onlineracin.nets pay to play and avoid this
BS.

Dammit Im supposed to be working not leading some kind of RASCAR revolution.
IMO someone has to or RASCAR as we know is gone.

Just to be sure Im not being mis-interpreted.  I fully appreciate EVERYTHING
Eldred and John have done in RASCAR to this point.  Its just gone way too
far now and needs to be reigned in.

Mitch

--
Tim White
www.intracmotorsports.com

=)

--
Scott B. Husted
ICQ# 439540
http://www.Husted.cc
"I would rather have a German division in front of me than a French one
behind me."
- General George S. Patton

Ranting and raving is not going to make John change his mind, so save your
breath. There can be no "power to the people" racing league, someone's gotta
do it and it might as well be someone who enjoys doing it. <g>

The only surefire way to destroy what we've built up over the past year is
to carry on as you are doing. Something had to be done about the races with
the bigger fields. I started doing it, John has taken it a step further and
I'm sure most are willing to give "his way" a try. Please, don't argue
yourself out of a (possibly) good race every Saturday.

If you feel you need to break a rule, just break it and take your chances...
what's the big deal? (easy for me to say with an ocean between me and John,
but still... ;-))

Jan.
=---

<snipped>

Although I haven't raced on RASCAR, though being a regular here allows
me that entitlement, I guess, and therefore allows me the entitlement to
comment also, hopefully, therefore I must say that most of what you have
stated I agree with.  When RASCAR first appeared here, it seemed to be a
communal venture to allow anyone on ras the opportunity for some online
racing without fear of coming up against the numbnuts drivers in open,
pickup races, and Eldred and John were glad to provide some time,
resources and effort to organise and get it up and running.  At that
time there didn't appear to be anyone who was actually recognised as the
person who would decide on any kind of rule structure (it was very free
and easy).

Suddenly, without any opportunity for others to have a say in this, that
doesn't seem to have fallen on deaf ears, and a complete rule set has
reared its ugly head which, in my view, seems to go against the whole
ethos of why RASCAR came about in the first place.  I'm not against what
John is trying to do, but surely this is something that should have been
put to all those concerned.  Everyone should be entitled to have a say
in how RASCAR is run, but this no longer seems to be happening.

It may well be that these rules will improve the races, maybe not, and I
see nothing wrong with a ruleset used to keep things in place a little,
but these rules do seem to have just been applied without any chance for
all those others to say whether they agree with them or not.

I did see RASCAR as a series run by a group of equal individuals (bit of
an oxymoron there :) and surely it is important to keep it that way.  I
can see what John is trying to do, a problem occurred and he has tried
to deal with it as quickly and efficiently as possible by implementing
this ruleset.  However, no-one asked him to do so.  He just decided he
would and there lays the crux of the problem.
--
Peter Ives (AKA Pete Ivington)
Remove ALL_STRESS before replying via email
If you know what's good for you, don't listen to me :)
GPLRank Joystick -50.63 Wheel -21.77

No one controls RASCAR. That's just a fact. I don't why the hell some think
that you, me, or anyone else has to obey laws layed down by an individual
when it comes to RASCAR. John volunteered to do a service. Eldred
volunteered his server. Because John has control of the invite list, he
thinks he can control everything, and now even thinks he can tell us when we
are allowed to discuss the damn races! We didn't need this garbage last
season. I want the old drivers back (Ed, Tony, Ian, and others) in RASCAR,
and if they can't make it every week, that's ok. I want the old rules
(basic). We say whatever the hell we want, whenever we want, just like we've
been doing for YEARS here at ras. We all have a simple straw poll when it
comes to decisions like what tracks to run in off weeks, instead of, for
example, being told we MUST by converters and run specific tracks.

John likes to say lately that if someone doesn't like his rules, they can
quit. As I said at the forum, if John doesn't like how things are, then he
can get the hell out. His time as dictator of RASCAR is up.

David G Fisher

'Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.' Bishop
Mandell Creighton, 1887.

<SNIP>

David, I agree with you on this! But don't worry, I won't make a habit
of it. :)

limit.
Dave,
    While I may have issues with your driving (really only minor) I agree
with you.
I think we both have strong personalities and that leads to our
disagreements, however, I like driving with you on the track.  I would like
to see RASCAR survive.
I fall in the rook category but hope I am not one that Mitch refers to when
he talks about problems every week
:-)
There should be no limit on discussion off the track as long as it is not
continued into on track confrontation.

Sean

However, I have a strong feeling that I would have pulled the plug by now
anyway for being continually penalised for some silly infringement - most
likely the "no chatting" or the "no discussion in the Newsgroup" rules. :)

Sitting back and watching the reaction to John's edicts over the past weeks
reminds me very much of one of those hippy communes which sprang up all over
the place in the 1960's.
They proclaimed freedom for all; do your own thing, man, just don't tread on
anyone else's toes; we're all here because this is what we wanna do;
etcetera.
Gradually these peace-loving, free-wheeling communities found themselves
coming under some form of governance as people realised that there had to be
some basic rules by which they lived, even if it was as simple as who dug
the latrines, who watered and weeded the *** and who cared for the
kids and livestock. These matters were always discussed in open forum and
decisions arrived at by majority vote.
A democratic communist society, in other words. Government of the people,
for the people, by the people.

Well, RASCAR has reached a point where the bloke who is doing the basic
organising has taken it upon himself to make his own rules and regs and if
one doesn't like it then one can***off.

A non-democratic dictatorship, in other words. Government by one.

That's the current situation in a nut-shell, from where I sit.

Bruce.

Who says there is?

As I understand the rules there's a cap on discussions relating to the event
itself or incidents therein. I think, e.g., it would be quite legal to
discusswhat level of interaction or interference between drivers on
different strategies we feel is acceptable. Generally speaking or relating
to a specific type of track.

Also, I don't think there's a problem with the "Are we racing
realistically?" thread as such, but the way it was first presented and has
subsequently descended.

Jan.
=---

Excuse me, has it even occurred to anyone nobody has been penalized yet?

Jan.
=---

1. I'd prefer it if the only rule was to turn the damn yellows off

however ....

2. I've had every opportunity to feed back on the proposed rule set and was
listened to with courtesy (not agreed with though) ;)

3. I'll give it a go with the new rules and see how it turns out. I'll
probably get done for chatting under yellow but I'll take that risk.

4. Until I decide I don't like it, I'll give Eldred and John my full
support.

5. John turned me into a newt ;)

Regards

You were told NOT TO comment on the Michigan race or you would be penalized
for tomorrow's race. You said you'd comment anyway. Go ahead then.

David G Fisher

Sean