rec.autos.simulators

CART Precision Racing review by Eagle Woman

XRaceTr

CART Precision Racing review by Eagle Woman

by XRaceTr » Fri, 12 Dec 1997 04:00:00


I'm not arguing about that... I'm just saying she presented all
negative and no positive, and that's not a "debate" to me...

When I said "I think" 3 times, and followed it with a "So what?"
I thought I was being clear that those were just my opinions and
don't mean squat to anyone besides me....

I didn't claim they were valid. All I did was share *my* impression
of her... They could be completely wrong. That's why I very carefully
prefaced everything I said about her with "I think".

How do you know what business I am in? Is that wheere you work?
:-)  :-)  :-)

I DID NOT ACCUSE HER OF THAT!! Sheesh...

What do you think it means when someone says "I think"? Nowehere
did I say "She IS..." anything. I'm sure she's a very nice person. We'd
probably get along great in real life. From her website, I get the
impression that we have a lot of similar interests. Maybe we don't,
but all I am saying is that is my *impression* from what little I do
know of the woman.

Hardly... you just read more into it than you should have...

- Mike.

====================================================
 Mike Holthouse - Indianapolis, IN
 I'm sick of spam!! To e-mail me, remove the "x"...
====================================================

XRaceTr

CART Precision Racing review by Eagle Woman

by XRaceTr » Fri, 12 Dec 1997 04:00:00


> _could_ be
> depending on
> if he was implying
> if
>Whew. Hope that's clear now :)

Yep. It is to me at least... as to the other folks around here
figuring it out, well..............er.............no comment...

<BAG>

- Mike.

====================================================
 Mike Holthouse - Indianapolis, IN
 I'm sick of spam!! To e-mail me, remove the "x"...
====================================================

XRaceTr

CART Precision Racing review by Eagle Woman

by XRaceTr » Fri, 12 Dec 1997 04:00:00


> If i was In part responsible for selling you an unfinished prouduct,
> or ripping you off, or telling you that Im about to sell you the best
> SIM ever and it turned out to be CPR, would you not abuse me
> as well?

No! Because, number 1, I don't believe everything I see or read
(that means I understand there is going to be hype). And number
2, I would check it out, see what it had to offer, and if I didn't like
it, I would tell you why (politely!) and return it... Then, I'd tell all
my friends about why I didn't like it, but not to take my word for
it and to go try it themselves... Is that so hard to do?

(Note - the rest of this is not directed at you specifically, Jason,
but the general r.a.s. population...)

The problem isn't *what* you told them. It's *how* you told them.
Nobody deserves to be treated like Dean et al were... If the people
here were looking at a person instead of a computer monitor, they
wouldn't say half the ***they say... Personally, I try not to say
one thing here that I wouldn't say to someone's face...

And pounded and pounded and pounded! How many times do
people have to be told that there is a patch coming before they
figure it out? Granted, it shouldn't have been released in its
current state - GET OVER IT! It's been done. It cannot be changed
now. Now, quit whining about the same things and give the
patch a chance... I don't judge anyone by the goofs they make -
I make a lot of them myself - but rather by what they do to correct
them.

That is not fact. That is YOUR OPINION. That's one problem in this
group - not enough people know the difference...

- Mike.

====================================================
 Mike Holthouse - Indianapolis, IN
 I'm sick of spam!! To e-mail me, remove the "x"...
====================================================

Richard Walk

CART Precision Racing review by Eagle Woman

by Richard Walk » Fri, 12 Dec 1997 04:00:00



Have you *read* any of Alison's posts? She did *NOT* say that statement
that you & Dean seem to have attributed to her.

Alison put a lot of effort into trying to track down a problem and got
dismissed for her efforts.

If you want to blame anyone, blame those who posted "CPR sux" messages
without offering any justification. Typically, they are the sort of
bigoted idiots who flame away without checking their facts....

Cheers,
Richard

Randy BO

CART Precision Racing review by Eagle Woman

by Randy BO » Fri, 12 Dec 1997 04:00:00

your web site?

Nothing more pathetic than when people on Usenet try to act like they know what
someone else's motivations are.  I welcome all reviews.  I don't get paid for
the reviews I write.  I have no problem with reviews written by other people.
Quite often I hook up with these people on the phone and we have great
conversations about sims and sometimes we end up modem-racing.  In fact, I
think Alison's review of the steering null-spot was dead-on and badly needed to
be written.  All I can say about your little cheapshot about my motivations is:
 Grow up.

hand it over to CART-P(ublic) R(elations)...
 "

No.  I'm just saying if she had a technical problem she might have tried to
resolve it with MS first and then written up her experiences (both problems &
solutions or lack of solutions) in the review.  Just to eliminate all
possibility that its pilot-error.

Randy
Randy Magruder
Staff Writer
Digital Sportspage
http://www.digitalsports.com/

Randy BO

CART Precision Racing review by Eagle Woman

by Randy BO » Fri, 12 Dec 1997 04:00:00

not a problem on my machine and the demo... Should anyone have it? Absolutely
not. But, again, MS for all its people
and all its money, can't possibly test the program on every possible computer
configuration...>>>

My computer configuration is a stock-delivered Dell XPS D300 with a
SoundBlaster AWE 64 and a Thrustmaster NASCAR Pro Wheel hooked into its
gameport.  How much more standard can I get?!

Randy
Randy Magruder
Staff Writer
Digital Sportspage
http://www.digitalsports.com/

Randy BO

CART Precision Racing review by Eagle Woman

by Randy BO » Fri, 12 Dec 1997 04:00:00

Thanks for a well-reasoned post.  And I expected nothing but flames this
morning! :)

(although not in the computing business).

Yeah I realize I probably overstated my point.  But I do think that the
software business is a lot different than most other business.  Most of the
products you buy are not products which can be patched or updated or have a
Version 2 released on them.  Also, most products you buy don't have to work
with gazillion other combinations of products.  As such, the margin for error
is much larger for a piece of software than it is for, say, a toaster.  (Now if
Microsoft gets its way and sticks Windows CE in toasters, that'll be a
different story!)  

As a result, the communication lines between customer and developer are more
strained.  People also tend to invest a lot more into their software than they
do most other things they buy.  Again, with the toaster if that new Black &
Decker fails you, you take it back and get it replaced or get a refund and buy
a different brand.  You're not going to go up on Usenet and flame Black &
Decker for releasing a toaster before it was ready (well at least I haven't
seen that particular thread yet, but this is Usenet..anything could happen!).
So there is a very different dynamic at work here.  Its valid in some senses to
compare the two business models, but not in others.  The other interesting
issue is whether Microsoft is requiring its employees to be online helping out.
 The software business itself has changed a lot in the past 5 years.  For
instance, you used to pay $300-$500 for a Windows database product and get free
technical support.  Today the same database might cost you $99 and in exchange
you pay for your support.  Similarly, Microsoft is selling a $50 game here, and
the question is, is Microsoft obligated to provide free support for that $50
product or just offer refunds to the people who are unhappy with it?  I don't
know.  I'm not a MS bean counter and couldn't tell you.  Ideally, yeah they
should support everything they have with all the resources they have and it
should be free.  But as we've discovered, its not an ideal situation we have
here.  If Dean is volunteering his own personal, private time to helping out
here and is not required to do so from Microsoft, he should be thanked for
doing so, not flamed.  It goes to whether an employee is trying to go the extra
mile for a company or product he believes in.  But if he's not required to be
here, then perhaps our complaints are better directed at Microsoft itself,
demanding that they be here if they want the people in this newsgroup to
purchase their products.  Unfortunately, as has been pointed out here, its
unknown exactly what small % of their market we make up.  We're obviously very
vocal, but are we enough numerically to justify required free support here?  I
doubt it.

I'm also amused by those who think MS will suffer for not being here.  Again, I
doubt it.  Maybe if MS was a small, one or two -product company, but being the
behemoth that it is...well..I don't think so.  I think ultimately we the
customers lose out.  Microsoft won't go belly-up if Bill cancels the CART
project, but we won't be getting a great CART sim anytime soon because of the
effort and licensing requirements it takes to build one.  Papyrus has gone the
way of the stock car (and you can't blame them monetarily), and Microprose
looks like they aren't going to be following up on GP2, so what have we got?  

I've been accused of sucking up to Microsoft for defending Dean, and a few
other posts have attacked my motives, but let me clear up the mystery.  I'm a
CART fanatic.  I go to Laguna Seca every year.  I'm a big Michael Andretti fan.
 I want the end-all, be-all CART sim.  Microsoft has the resources to do
it....but my feeling is that I'd rather work WITH them to get what I want than
flame them into oblivion and have them blow off my complaints and suggestions.
Because ultimately what I'm interested in is what *I* want, which is a great
CART sim. Anyone reading anything else into my motives is sadly off-base.  If I
thought I could flame Microsoft into giving me the features and fixes I want,
I'd probably do it :).  I just don't think its the most effective way to
persuade them to make things right, as they certainly need to be based upon the
problems with CPR 1.0.

One final note (and I hope anyone replying to this has read the whole of this
post before hitting reply and flaming away):  I think Dean did cross the line
with Alison by implying that she didn't have the problem she had, and I also
think Alison raised valid points in her review, and I really liked her diagrams
of the steering null zone.  I shared some of her frustrations with this title.

Randy
Randy Magruder
Staff Writer
Digital Sportspage
http://www.digitalsports.com/

Randy BO

CART Precision Racing review by Eagle Woman

by Randy BO » Fri, 12 Dec 1997 04:00:00


don't like what's being said here about my product; I'm leaving" doesn't seem
very mature or professional.  >>

Yeah, but that's not what he said.  Your paraphrasing leaves something to be
desired.

Randy
Randy Magruder
Staff Writer
Digital Sportspage
http://www.digitalsports.com/

XRaceTr

CART Precision Racing review by Eagle Woman

by XRaceTr » Fri, 12 Dec 1997 04:00:00


Point taken!

My computer is a Micron P-133, non-MMX, with a "Vibra 16"
sound card, an added modem and UMAX scanner SCSI card,
added memory, new Viper 330 video card, a year old T2 (with
converter), a second hard drive, an external Zip drive, and a
cheap 17 inch monitor....

*MY OPINION* is that the CPR demo runs great on my machine!
(20 fps sans eye-candy, except for tire marks, drawn hills (hate
to see the Armco floating in mid air!), and the***pit... I can turn
on the sky and only lose about 1 fps, but it's kind of distracting
anyway, so I keep it off...)

:-)  :-)

Maybe my setup is the only one MS tested CPR on...

:-)  :-)

- Mike.

PS - I know tensions have been high here lately, so just for
good measure: :-)  :-) :-)  :-) :-)  :-)

====================================================
 Mike Holthouse - Indianapolis, IN
 I'm sick of spam!! To e-mail me, remove the "x"...
====================================================

Barton Spencer Brow

CART Precision Racing review by Eagle Woman

by Barton Spencer Brow » Fri, 12 Dec 1997 04:00:00


>can you find one other post that says their OS

was corrupted.>>

Yup.

Barton Spencer Brow

CART Precision Racing review by Eagle Woman

by Barton Spencer Brow » Fri, 12 Dec 1997 04:00:00


>I think it [Dean's leaving] is the result of unbearable embarrassment.<<

Dead on.

Bart

Barton Spencer Brow

CART Precision Racing review by Eagle Woman

by Barton Spencer Brow » Fri, 12 Dec 1997 04:00:00



> but can you find one other post that says their OS was corrupted."

rrevved: So it didn't happen?

If anyone cares anymore, a gentleman who was on the CPR development team
-- or at least a beta tester (isn't everybody?) -- reported in a message
to this newsgroup that he experienced the very same problems as Alison,
INCLUDING the "OS corruption" crash, brought his concerns to the
attention of the CART team leaders, and was basically brushed aside with
words to the effect that "we can't worry about that now, we gotta get
this product out the door..."

If you'd like, I can resurrect the message in its entirety from
DejaNews.

Bart Brown

Barton Spencer Brow

CART Precision Racing review by Eagle Woman

by Barton Spencer Brow » Fri, 12 Dec 1997 04:00:00


>>She never gave him a chance... he posted his thoughts (very

promptly, I might add) and then people just blasted the guy
with insults and *** theories and whatnot for any
technical problem they've ever had...<<

Basically, he said she didn't know what she was doing, and that
obviously her configuration was completely wrong -- that's not just
presumptuous, it's abusive...it's also the classic software mfrs. first
line of offensive defense.

Then he offerred to help her out by sending her a 3dxf board -- I have
to imagine he started rethinking THAT particular gem of marketing about
point-oh-six-eight seconds after hitting the "send" key.

Bart Brown

Barton Spencer Brow

CART Precision Racing review by Eagle Woman

by Barton Spencer Brow » Fri, 12 Dec 1997 04:00:00


>Maybe you can create some AI for yourselves as well.>>

David -- That's the BEST shot I've seen yet! Good one!

Bart


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