rec.autos.simulators

--
Dave Otterness

Alison--

You did a hell of a job in your review oF CPR...I hope Mr. Lester's
crybaby response doesn't deter you from telling it like it is in future.

Keep up the great work!

Bart Brown

Great review Alison, I could not have said it better.
Nice to see a Real Review, not a Glossed over half ass one like Next Gen
and others.

I played and toyed with this thing for a week trying to like it as well but
it is just
so riddled with bugs "and that framerate"  it really is unplayable.
Funny how on Pro I win every race I play, took me months to do that in
ICR2.
I agree that this game was shoved out the door in an Alpha state.
If Mr GO_CART from TRI says different he is insulting our intelligence and
plain common sense.  
Bottom line..The game simply put...SUCKS.
Oh well.

........

If I thought for a nanosecond that Microsoft gave a rat's ass about this
newsgroup, I'd email them a full copy of your whining, sniveling
response to Alison's review of CPR, and all your other rants about any
negative response to what is obviously a flawed product; but since
Microsoft has seen fit to present someone as immature as you've shown
yourself to be as their "representative" in this NG, that pretty much
says all there is to say about their "presence" here.

Searching DejaNews, I find that, except for one brief comment regarding
"Monster Truck Madness" on August 25, 1996, your massive contribution to
RAS started on November 2, 1997 -- a whole 5 weeks ago. So after a
little more than a month, all these "negative posts" and "flames" you've
had to endure have caused you to pick up your Bill gates Ball and go
home. Poor baby!

Apparently, a month ago you weren't quite as battle-scarred and cynical,
but I know that a month monitoring a games newsgroup must be hell -- I
hope the Big M gives you a Purple heart and a well-deserved rest and
promotion. Just for old times' sake, here's one of your first posts,
written when you were still a wide-eyed innocent, full of hope and
idealism, marching onward for the greater glory of Microsoft. I guess
that stuff about "people making up their own minds" and the value of the
"feedback process" was just youthful naivet. One can grow SO much in a
month:

Date:         1997/11/05

Newsgroups:   rec.autos.simulators

Thanks for your posting!

Yes, there are many many people enjoying CPR without necessarily posting
a message saying so.

Postings, as always, mainly focus on the negative. Though this is not
necessarily a bad thing - tells us what to  work on first!   ;)

We encourage everyone reading this group to download the trial and make
up their own minds.

That's what it's for.

And keep sending the feedback - we are working with TRi right now
looking at ALL the postings and email.

fyi - my teams also develop Flight Simulator, and it is through
precisely this feedback process that that Sim has stayed so strong.

And thanks for all the feedback already submitted - it is  not being
ignored. Far from it ...

Expect news soon.

MS/TRi CPR Team.>>

"Why don't you just wait and buy the game??? Fat little 11 year-olds..
sheesh.."

And grandly signs himself as:

"CART:PR tester,
--
Dave Otterness

Not *that* Dave Otterness! He's such a mature boy! And of course he has
no *personal* interest in a Microsoft flunky*** around here --
heavens NO!

I just hope all you folks who paid real American money for CPR will
apologize to poor little Dean for the whole MONTH of hell you've put him
through...land's sakes, the boy's just trying to spread the
gospel...Obviously if the sim doesn't work right it has absolutely
nothing to do with Microsoft shoving it off the ramp in time for the
Christmas rush and EVERYTHING to do with your collective ignorance in
computer setup and configuration. You people should kneel down and kiss
the virtual ground Microsoft demeans itself to walk on here.

INGRATES!

Bart Brown
Moron

<<If you think about it, if only one person has reported a problem, and
they have spend hundreds of hours testing the game, chances are the
problem(s) lie in the persons system setup and how it interacts with
CART, and is not necessarily a flaw in the game.>>

Excuse me? "If only ONE person has reported a problem"? What are YOU
smoking?

I won't even *bother* to comment on the rest of your self-serving post,
as rrevved and Brian Heiland have addressed the issues far more expertly
and eloquently than I could have.

C.P.R. Playground, huh? I'm glad *you* have no axe to grind...

Bart Brown

you gotta be kidding.......Is that all you saw? the blame being passed
on?..... so why are they coming out with this patch again?    who is being
blamed for that? hmmmmmmm I havent heard them blaming anyone for the AI
problems..I havent heard them blaming anyone for the rain tire bug. so
please tell me who is being blamed for that? maybe just maybe they admit the
game isnt up to par and they are fixing it by listening and responding to
the major problems on this NG and not just a issolated incident that is only
happened to one person  yeah there are alot of posts on this NG that are not
positive about this game but can you find one other post that says their OS
was corrupted. I am not saying this didnt happen but how much time do you
think they need to spend addressing ONE (1) issolated problem    Its to bad
that people like you can run someone off who has been here addressing the
problems of this game    can you name another game manufaturerthat does this
the way MS did         GOOD JOB!!!!!!!!!!!

Seems to me he left because Allison's review was too harsh for him. Too bad that
honest criticism is too much for a company rep to stomach. "I don't think your
review was fair so I'm not gonna play with anymore!"
It is too bad the entire newsgroup has to be punished.
                                                                           Ken
The Game Pad
http://gamepad.org/

I agree. It is ashamed that Dean is leaving the RAS just because some people are too critical. It
would be better too ignore people who are total jerks ( that is what kill files are for) and
respond to people who are are at least somewhat rational. There are jerks in every aspect of
life, but you don't punish everyone just because of a few bad apples. I had a lot of problems
with this game but decided to stick it out because it seemed Dean and Microsoft were going to
stick it out for the long haul and the presence here on the newsgroup reassured me of that. Now,
I am having second thoughts. Granted, Dean has no obligation to be here, however from his
previous posts we were led to believe that he would be here for the long haul. Oh well.....

                                                                           Ken

The Game Pad
http://gamepad.org/

much of how "unlike other sims, CPR comes with excellent setups." - can you
show me where you saw this? We have _never_ claimed the defaults were good -
average at best. See any of my earlier FAQ postings on this.

Not wanting to get shot in the cross-fire here, but, I recall a interview
with the who I believe was the Product Manager for CARTPR say on the All
Games Network that unlike other sims, CARTPR will ship with very good
set-ups (or something to that effect). I definitely recall this as being
something like "very good" because I thought how nice that would be. Since I
have limited time to spend on sims, I was pleased to hear this. My largest
disappointment with GP2 was the time involved getting the right setups. So I
was looking forward to getting very good "canned" setups so I could spend
more time one the track and less time analyzing charts and tweaking
settings.

I will say that with minor changes from the Elkhart Lake default setup, I am
able to turn qualifying times that would place me in 6th position in
relation to the "Track Stats" in 5 or 6 short sessions. So, from my limited
experience of just Elkhart Lake, I would say that MS did provide very good
setups.

As far as trail braking, I am able to do this at Elkhart Lake. Not as
consistently as I would like. This is has more to do with my driving
abilities in setting up for corners over CARTPR.

That's my 3 cents worth.

Jesus people, how many times do they need to be told the AI sucks or the
frame rate stinks! How many times do they have to tell you they are going to
fix it. Are you all so full of yourself that you think you're the first to
discover some issue in a computer game. Get a clue.

How about reading the zillion other posts on the same subject before opening
your pathetic shallow minded mouths. I'm out of here too! It's a waste of
time reading 80% of the posts in r.a.s. which subjects deal with either:

A.)  "It doesn't work on my pathetic system and I'm too stupid to figure out
the problem so (insert game name here) must suck! So where is the patch to
fix what I can't figure out"?

B.) "I'm too cheap to buy good hardware. So any sim that is developed for
some hardware my thir*** year-old level budget can't afford sucks."

C.) "I'm so smart that I could of released a new sim with zero bugs or
issues. Hell, forget the fact that I haven't graduated high-school, it is so
easy I could fix all the problems and release the patch in one day. In fact,
forgetting that I have little to no experience in programming (by the way
what is a bat file?) and from what other thir*** year-olds have said, that
API sucks. I'll tell you what you should do! Not coincidentally, it would be
to my thir*** year-old interests and develop the program to my hardware
platform."

Many of the posts here reflect the recent saying in another group with a 13
year-old mentality constituency, " I'm an idiot and it's your fault"!

stay. But frankly on the basis of your recent propaganda and flaming of
someone who was only trying to produce an objective review of CPR, I'm really
not sure that you will be missed. >>

He will be.  Richard, just what do you expect a company rep to do?  say "yeah,
great review, our product bites the big one?!"  Please.  The guy is being as
helpful as he can, with the caveat that since he works for the vendor he's got
an obligation to spin things and try to help create a positive perception of
the product.  Rather than ripping him to shreds for it, perhaps we can just
separate the wheat from the chaff.  We know he's got a job to do that includes
promiting his product, and he knows he's got a job to do.  So some of it is
positive spin control.  So what?!  I can stomach a guy coming in and spinning
this in his product's favor if he's also helping out people who are having a
hard time configuring the sim, or taking suggestions for future versions and
updates.  Its really a small price to pay and my guess is that a lot of the
people who suffered under the cold silence of Microprose regarding GP2 would
have killed to have a MPS rep here as helpful as Dean has been, and would have
been willing to tolerate some of the expected company-line that goes with it.

Yeah, Dean will be missed, but I don't blame him for leaving because I think
too many people have taken out their anti-MS feelings on him personally.

Randy
Randy Magruder
Staff Writer
Digital Sportspage
http://www.digitalsports.com/

takes his ball and goes home. >>

Yeah, DEAN is the immature one here...right.  

Oh, that's rich. Damned if you do and damned if you don't, right?  

Why don't you send your resume to Microsoft and enclose a copy of your usenet
posting as a sample.  I'm sure they'll hire you so that you can fire Dean.

The bad customers killed it over the last 20 years.

begin with since there is a lot of anti-Microsoft sentiment out there. <<

True, but if it were as powerful as some people think, Microsoft wouldn't be as
successful as it is.  I work for one of Microsoft's competitors and so I know
what it is to go up against them, but there's at least some respect there as
well.

product.

Dean probably figures he's got nothing to lose at this point, and I don't blame
him.

comments and purely try to paint a bright picture. >>

He's a representative of the company that makes CPR.  Painting a bright picture
for customers is part of his job.

say "yeah, you're right, CPR can't do this, perhaps we made a mistake in
releasing it too soon" etc, >>

Oh, yeah, that would really defuse the bashers....

Its amazing here how the victim has become the bad guy.  Dean's put himself out
here time and time again and patiently dealt with people who were just
downright abusive, and the one time he finally says "enough" and leaves, two
people jump on his case and tell him that somehow HE is at fault for all of it.

<< you would be much more effective if you at least
recognized the customer's viewpoint/opinion, no matter what it is.>>

He did and does.

whiners/complainers are right, and you and Microsoft can't hack it >>

By leaving the newsgroup he's doing something probably well deserved...letting
some of the abusive folks here eat static for awhile, as we all did with
Microprose and GP2.  Lets now all enjoy the wonderful silence brought on by the
Usenet flamers, who have once again demonstrated why so many peoples' eyes roll
whenever someone mentions the word "newsgroup".

Randy
Randy Magruder
Staff Writer
Digital Sportspage
http://www.digitalsports.com/