rec.autos.simulators

Not to totally "diss" you, but I think your opinion is horribly
uninformed....If you had actually been here for a while and read what Dean
had posted, you would have found that his posts were always helpful and
informative.  I'm sorry that you have not taken the time to actually read
what the man has posted......now, I'd like to respond to some of the things
you have posted.

If you think about it, if only one person has reported a problem, and they
have spend hundreds of hours testing the game, chances are the problem(s)
lie in the persons system setup and how it interacts with CART, and is not
necessarily a flaw in the game.  The CART team is very busy making a patch
and the track editor....things which will benefit the multitude of people.
Asking if "other people" had experienced the problem is just a way of
determining if a problem reported by a person is suitable for follow up.  If
you read the other posts by Dean in this newsgroup, you'll see that he
always tries to address the problems that are verifiable, and therefore
worth the precious time of the CART team.

Ummmmm.....I'm not sure which newsgroup you've been reading since CART came
out, but I don't think it's been RAS.  If you'd noticed, Dean always
responds quickly to the problems of CART users, and always responds in a
helpful, non hostile manner, even when he is being flamed to all hell.  I
think that has taken a lot of restraint.  MS support has been GREAT, and I'm
sorry that you didn't bother to inform yourself before posting.  If the
above is your opinion, fine, you're entitled to it.  But when most companies
don't even BOTHER to come here, the least you could do is admit that Dean
and the CART team are doing their best....I think they are.  Most of my CART
related posts were responded to within a few hours......if this is an
example of not responding to "cries for help and criticism", I'd like to see
what is!

I expect several flames attacking my position....and I ask that you review
the CART team's activity on this newsgroup......and if you can honestly tell
me that the support for CART has been bad, then I'll respect your opinion.
I just sure as hell won't agree with it.

Mike McCloskey

C.P.R. Playground

I have to be amused by this statement. I do not own CPR, and I have no
plans for buying it, but I have read many/most of the posts concerning
CPR (the main reason why I never bought it). One of the few good points
on CPR was that Microsoft engineers took the time to contact with
consumers directly through r.a.s. This seems to have backfired on them,
as Dean immaturely cries foul and takes his ball and goes home. Dean,
are you crazy? This can only do harm to Microsoft and sales of CPR.
Geez, if I were your boss, I'd fire you ! heh.  What happened to the old
adage "the customer is always right" ? Of course there will always be
obnoxious annoying customers, but you should be mature enough to
recognize this and ignore them. I think you were behind the 8-ball to
begin with since there is a lot of anti-Microsoft sentiment out there.
If you really did get fed up with all the whiners on this newsgroup,
then you should have just stopped reading, but to come up with statement
can do no good at all to yourself or your product.
For me personally, I don't care whether you stay or leave, but I have
noticed that often times you simply do not react to negative comments
and purely try to paint a bright picture. I think people would trust you
better if sometimes you could come out and say "yeah, you're right, CPR
can't do this, perhaps we made a mistake in releasing it too soon" etc,
instead of reacting to negative comments as personal attacks. I think
99% of the people with negative points about CPR have a valid reason for
them , and instead of saying "no, you are wrong, you set up your system
incorrectly", etc., you would be much more effective if you at least
recognized the customer's viewpoint/opinion, no matter what it is.
By leaving the newsgroup in this manner, you are conceding that the
whiners/complainers are right, and you and Microsoft can't hack it
(which may be true anyways, who knows)

-Dan P

......I was reading the group on my friends account and forgot to change the
name from his to mine before posting.....thanks.

Mike McCloskey
C.P.R. Playground

I would like to thank you for*** out as long as you have....I'm sorry
that you've decided to leave, and I'd really appreciate it (as well as many
other people who have actual questions/problems about CART) if you'd hang
around, but I understand that there is only so much uninformed and
irrational opinions/positions that you can take.  It's amazing that you've
always kept a level head when dealing with some of these people.

Thank you for all of your help since CART released, I (and many others)
appreciate it......just remember that there really are people who need your
help here on R.A.S., and maybe after a little break...you could come
back....please???  If not, I totally understand......thanks for all you've
done here on R.A.S.   It was great to have a link to the people involved in
designing CART.  I for one love the game.  Thanks again, and hopefully we'll
eventually see you back here!

Mike McCloskey
C.P.R. Playground

On Wed, 10 Dec 1997 00:22:36 -0800, "Dean (CART Team)"

What are you implying? AFAI remember that post was from a guy who
mentioned it here on r.a.s. and everyone read it, myself (and I guess
you) included. So because Alison quoted the (good) information in her
review that makes her a pirate? Because she quoted it her opinion
somehow becomes less relevant?

Hmmmm.....

Cheers!
John

On Wed, 10 Dec 1997 11:22:13 -0800, "Dean (CART Team)"

You came in all e***d that you had a world beating sim only to find
that the top sim racers are a little more demanding than your in house
drivers. But you remained upbeat and helpful.

Then your initial very helpful presence became increasingly what appeared
to be a damage limitation exercise and rounding on anyone who offered
criticism (whether constructive or destructive).

You left.

Anyway, I do wish you luck with future versions of CPR. But if you are
going to promote it as a *sim* then please, please, *PLEASE*, make sure
that someone who really knows about sim racing has input to it.

Cheers,
Richard

PS: If you really *are* interested in responding to *constructive*
criticism, you are very welcome to contribute to the Motorsports section
of the Sports Simulation (SPRTSIMS) forum on Compuserve. You will find
some very knowledgable sim racers there and it is a flame free zone <g>
Don't expect an easy ride, but you will NOT need Nomex underwear....

--
Dave Otterness

I do. The occasional flame is the nature of public forums, and they
can be easily ignored by any mature person. They are not an excuse for
"pulling an EA" (i.e., withdrawing completely from public
participation).

Joe

Joe

Dean is a grown man who has full responsibility for the choices he
makes. I for one thought his participation here was the one bright
spot in an otherwise fairly shaky CPR release - and now that bright
spot has gone, Dean has chosen to "pull an EA". But that's *his*
decision, not Alison's.

Joe

Man you are an Idiot      crawl back in your hole     Dean has "responded"
to alot of help and critisim here     where have you been???

Man you are an Idiot      crawl back in your hole     Dean has "responded"
to alot of help and critisim here     where have you been???

I was involved in the gold preview release of CPR, and I reported many of
the problems that Alison reported within two days of having the CD

I reported the need or desire for tire temps. My guess is that the
simulation is not based on tires heating up and "going away".  Must be based
on some new law of Physics.

I asked where are the yellow flags?

I expressed that control setup was very bad, and second joyport support for
CH pedals didn't work even after I read the text file, and followed the
directions.

The AI problems were mentioned from day one by many people.

In fact I too remember having a total system crash that required me to
reinstall my entire system.  I didn't previously report this as a CPR
problem, and am not sure if it was the fault of CPR.  All I know is on that
day I was trying to configure two things to work properly, my ch pedals -
never resolved, bought a thrustmaster 2 and the annoying flicker in my
voodoo rush card.  I rebooted my system, changed drivers so many times
during those first two days, that I may have been the cause.  Maybe it was
the system lockups that I had to press the reset button because it was not
coming back?

I am sorry to see that Dean has decided to leave RAS, I hope that he still
reads this site.  I tried to voice my concerns to Dean in the first days of
the Gold Preview by asking a one simple question, "Dean, is this a beta
preview or is this the finish product, if it is the finished product, expect
a lot of complaints and many returns".

  I think Alison was on the right track.
And had every right to speak her mind.
Brian

I apologize for getting cheezed off, it just really upsets me that Dean
ended up deciding that he'd had enough.  Your message sounded like you were
basing your entire opinion of Dean on one or two posts, which is why I
assumed you hadn't been reading the others.  When I read your post, it made
it sound like you were attacking Dean's involvement from the start, not just
the way the most recent situation with Alison was handled....I agree he was
being a bit too defensive, but considering how negative parts of her review
are, I think it's forgivable that he stressed the positives of CART that
were not touched upon in her review.  Sorry I wasn't communicating in a very
productive way,  I just got cheezed off when I saw you saying that MS
doesn't help people who are having problems out.....I tend to strongly
disagree.  I've got finals to study for, so I hope you'll accept my apology
for my less than friendly letter.

Mike McCloskey
C.P.R. Playground
http://www.msu.edu/user/mcclosk6/cart/cart.htm

If you indeed are committed to making this sim the best it can be,
consider sticking it out until you are able to address feedback on your
finished product. Most here are not committed to the "CPR sucks" credo.
Rather, I believe most buy into the "CPR is short of where it can be in
the initial release. I will judge the complete product after the patch."
philosophy. If the kitchen is too hot then, you know the saying.

I, for one, will save your email address and forward you feedback on
your completed product after the patch. Good luck.

Jim Moore

P.S. If you are involved in sim racing projects in the future, consider
stopping by here pre-beta.