rec.autos.simulators

snip

Hmm, so I insult all the people who like the game if I post that I don't
like it? Let's just shut down the ng then for complete loss of
traffic...

l8er
ronny

--
          |\      _,,,---,,_        I want to die like my Grandfather,
   ZZZzz /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_              in his sleep.
        |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'     Not like the people in his car,
       '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)            screaming their heads off!

On Thu, 11 Dec 1997 16:04:08 -0600, David Otterness

Cheers!
John

No problem Alison, you can rely on me. All these people saying that
you didn't have the brains of an idiot, but of course I told them you
did... ;-)

Cheers!
John

Not so. How about ymenard being God of simracing and creator of
r.a.s.? Not the merest sliver of truth in that, but it's surely damn
funny! :)

Cheers!
John

[snip. paraphrase: software is more complicated and error-prone than
most other merchandise, so you're more likely to get flamed than in
other businesses.]

Understood - one will get flamed more for software than for anything
else, especially in Usenet. The basic principle of the manufacturer -
customer relationship should be the same, though.

Really? I never noticed. :) Seriously, I don't blame Sierra, or
Microprose, or Microsoft for not giving free tech support in this
group. Manpower is expensive, and if "free" support means I have to
pay double the price for a given program, I gladly go for the less
expensive option and see what the knowledgeable people in this
newsgroup can tell me.

It never occurred to me that Dean could be volunteering his spare time
to us - posting all the messages he sent seemed like a full time job
to me. (Heck - just *reading* all this stuff cuts severely into my
time. :) But let's for a moment assume he did: nonetheless, he
appeared in this group as "Dean (Cart Team) Lester", i.e. as the
official representative of Microsoft's games division. If you
represent some entity other than yourself, you have to be very careful
in what you're saying. The other gentlemen employed by Microsoft who
sometimes post to this group (ERICST and John Browne) using their work
accounts already have to phrase their words carefully. Since they
*are* employees of MS, somebody might take their words as official
communiquees, even though they are posting as private people in their
spare time. Now, even if it be the case that Dean was doing this also,
he gave the impression of being the official spokesperson of MS in
this group; which, in turn, necessitates being extra careful when
handling customers. My point is, I guess, that you have to be
superhumanly calm and considerate if you are speaking for MS (if not
"as MS"), since you represent the entire company in front of
customers. If you're speaking as yourself, you should make this clear
in a disclaimer in your .sig.

I doubt it also. In fact, I was puzzled that Dean took the time to
explain a gazillion times "Press "[" to move clipping distance out"
(or whatever it was). In his place, I would have provided an FAQ and
posted this once a week, or whenever a new problem had come up and was
solved. There's only a small benefit for MS or the Cart team in this
type of tech support. Explain something trivial like this once, and
let the helpful people of RAS repeat it if necessary. A huge benefit,
however, can be gained for the company if the simracers find a bug
that's slipped by QC. Those threads are worthy of the attention and
contribution of a developer.

Do you think the Cart sim is going to be canceled due to this
"incident"? I doubt it. But if MS (i.e. the Cart PR team) stopped
*reading* this group as well as contributing, I think they will
suffer, however. As a sim developer, you can gain a lot of valuable
information by just reading this newsgroup. (You can gain even more if
you're able to reply and ask for clarification if necessary.)
Ultimately, you can make a better sim that sells better in the long
run and produces more revenue - something you are interested in as a
professional. I agree that it wouldn't be a huge problem for MS if the
cart project was stopped. It would be even less of a problem if just
the denizens of RAS collectively decided to boycott the sim (which we
won't do). But a better sim with RAS input will be selling better in
the long run - that I'm sure of. I'm pretty sure that the Papy guys
(and gals? don't know) are monitorng the group exactly for that
reason.

Ubi's F1RS. (Not a cart sim, but an open-wheeler) I'm looking forward
to your review on that one. (BTW, this belongs to another thread, but
the D3D version of F1RS has some serious graphical flaws  - like empty
rearview mirrors - you don't experience with the voodoo version. One
good reason to buy a 3dfx card, at least for me.) And Grand Prix
Legends (which should be known as GPL drool, as far as I'm concerned.
:)

I absolutely agree with you on this one. Nonetheless, one should be
able to ignore the flames and always be very polite if one represents
a company. I'm not for flaming, but there always will be rude people.
Ignoring them is often a good choice - not every accusation and
ad-hominem attack *deserves* an answer.

I haven't read Alison's review, so I can't comment on the issues she
raises. But I read her posting and Dean's reply - maybe he didn't mean
it like that (sometimes our words in Usenet do not convey what we want
them to, especially in tone), but it came over very condescendingly
and patronizing. Not a good move, and an immediate explicit excuse
would have been in order, even if the perceived insult was
involuntary.

--
Wolfgang Preiss       \ E-mail copies of replies to this posting are welcome.
wopr"at"stud.uni-sb.de \ There is no "2" in my real e-mail address.
Uni des Saarlands       \ Sorry for the inconvenience. You know why.

Since you apparently have an easy way to recover, why not try
installing CPR again?

And to be fair, the install program of N2 would corrupt your IE3.0,
if everyone remembers. All you needed was for the AutoPlay
to bring the first menu screen up. Then BOOM no Internet Explorer.
So it is *VERY* possible for an application to mess with your OS.
Then difference there is that EVERYONE had a broken IE3.0.
In Alison's case she is apparently alone,  pointing the blame away
from CPR.

--
Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.

your review on that one. >>

So am I.  But I need some more seat time and a final-final version.  Ubi Soft
has yet to state that any version, even the one with the online patch, is final
boxed product.  When they do, they come up for review, and not before.

serious graphical flaws  - like empty
rearview mirrors - you don't experience with the voodoo version. One good
reason to buy a 3dfx card, at least for me.) >>

The rear views work in my version, up until the game freezes up that is.  I
consider this not to be a reason to buy a 3DFX card, but a reason for Ubi Soft
to fix their bugs!  I'm not going to buy a 3DFX card just because one game or
another has bugs in the Direct3D version that don't exist in the Glide version.
 For all I know the tables could be turned on the next piece of software I look
at it and its the Glide version that's got problems.  Anyway, the performance
drop in Direct3D from my Riva 128 AGP was way too much for me to use a 3DFX,
unless I decide to get a Monster and tack it onto the ole expansion port.

concerned. :) >>

Hope it lives up to its promises in 1.0 :)

Randy
Randy Magruder
Staff Writer
Digital Sportspage
http://www.digitalsports.com/

Well, there's a lot of variation here.

First of all, the game will optionally install DirectX and/or ActiveMovie?  The
former of course has a high risk factor of screwing up a system, since its
something that loads upon bootup (else why would they make you restart).

Also, there are different size installations.  Depending upon where Alison
installed it, there's also the possibility she created a low space condition,
possibly on her swap drive.  I don't know.

Randy
Randy Magruder
Staff Writer
Digital Sportspage
http://www.digitalsports.com/

Isn't it though? :)

Randy
Randy Magruder
Staff Writer
Digital Sportspage
http://www.digitalsports.com/

On Thu, 11 Dec 1997 16:49:18 -0800, "Scott B. Husted"

Hi Scott,

No one should be forced to take personal abuse. Please don't think for a
second that I in any way condone personal attacks.

That said, just how many were there? Maybe there were loads and I just
skipped them (I can't be bothered reading such trash and the authors of
such posts were possibly already in my killfile), but to me most of them
seemed to be aimed at *Microsoft*, not Dean personally.

In that case the standard response should be "please can you provide more
information as we would like to get to the bottom of this. Please send me
an email with your config.sys / autoexec.bat / registry settings etc".
Denying a problem does not help it get fixed.

Obviously it is a rare occurrence. But look at Dean's response to it:

How is that helping Alison or anyone else? Maybe it was just an
incredibly unfortunate choice of words, but it does seem to imply that
she was lying about her problem. It's *that* sort of response that soured
my impression of Dean :(

Indeed it does - applies to everyone in the group and with no exceptions
just because someone may work for a sim producer.

Cheers,
Richard

Thanks for being man enough to acknowledge the mistake.

Cheers,
Richard

Richard,

On this newsgroup you must have a killfile list the size of Texas ;)

I agree with you on many points.  I would agree that Dean's choice of
words were probably not the best.  I imagine he meant a "REAL problem
that effects a majority of users".  However, I cannot speak for him and
I do NOT know if those were his intentions.  In any regards... I agree
that the choice of words was poor and could be taken the wrong way.  It
could have been approached in a more constructive manner to say the
least.

As far as attacking Dean personally.... A MAJORITY of attacks were based
at MS.  MS Sucks, CPR SUCKs, its worthless, should have been complete
before releasing.. MS sucks, etc.  Worthless posts... but none the less
directed at MS more than Dean.  HOWEVER, there were many posts that
seemed awfully critical of Dean as an individual (or at least I would
have taken them that way).  Im not gonna hunt them down to prove who
said what to the exact word... but I would say there were a half dozen
to a dozen of posts.  There were some critical posts that were
constructive and legitimate.  Im not trying to "protect" or kiss MS ass
or anything =)
I dont promote or degrade the game. It obviously needs work.  Can it be
a great sim??  Time will tell =)  

Scott B. Husted
http://home.ptd.net/~sbhusted

That is why I would like *HER* to answer.
--
Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.

Yep. Play your cards right and you may have a date :-)

--
Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.