rec.autos.simulators

by **Darf** » Wed, 18 Sep 2002 20:48:23

Subject: Re: ot-Win XP versus W98se for sims
Date: Tuesday, 3 September 2002 2:19 AM

The guy at the computer store that I buy from, whose company is a certified
MS dealership, told me this:
Since MS started supplying the sticker with the serial number on it, this
must be stuck on the P.C. that it is originally installed on.
If it is not, then the copy of Windows is Illegally installed on the PC.
He also said that the MS license states this, and also states that the OS
cannot be reinstalled on another PC even if you format the drive on the
original PC.
He told me that this applies to both the OEM version and the full Retail
Version of XP. He said that the copy is licensed to the machine that it was
installed on, and that machine only, the copy can however be sold with that
machine. Previously, MS allowed you to format the drive of the machine that
you are selling, and reinstall it on your new machine, but not any more.
He gave me the example of a situation that arose with one of his customers.
The customer had a PC stolen.The thieves did not steal the original Windows
XP CD. The customer though that as far as MS were concerned, he was quite
entitled to install the OS on his new PC that was supplied by the insurance
company.
The Computer Shop owner told him that according to the MS license, he was
unable do so. The customer was understandably livid, and was told by the
Shop owner to ring MS and ask them. The customer did so, and was told by MS
that this was in fact the case.
Please note that I have not read the MS license to see if this is actually
stated within it. Please don't flame me for posting this as it is only what
I have been told.
I have known this guy for years, and he was very emphatic that this was the
case.
I can not believe that you can't legally do this. Can any MS dealers or
Computer Techs etc confirm or deny this?
If this is true, then I feel that this is another case of MS getting too
Greedy.

Darf

> "If you get a new computer, you are entitled to remove Windows XP from
> the one that is being junked, and install the same Windows XP on the
> new machine - but you will have to do the reactivation by a voice call
> and explain."

by **Joachim Trens** » Wed, 18 Sep 2002 23:25:58

You buy the license for installation on one single PC, so if your original
machine is stolen with the OS still on the HD, then this OS (with this
serial number) has already been installed on one PC, and hence must not be
installed on another.

I wonder though whether if he'd submit the police report, MS wouldn't treat
this in a customer-friendly way.

Achim

> Subject: Re: ot-Win XP versus W98se for sims
> Date: Tuesday, 3 September 2002 2:19 AM

> The guy at the computer store that I buy from, whose company is a
certified
> MS dealership, told me this:
> Since MS started supplying the sticker with the serial number on it, this
> must be stuck on the P.C. that it is originally installed on.
> If it is not, then the copy of Windows is Illegally installed on the PC.
> He also said that the MS license states this, and also states that the OS
> cannot be reinstalled on another PC even if you format the drive on the
> original PC.
> He told me that this applies to both the OEM version and the full Retail
> Version of XP. He said that the copy is licensed to the machine that it
was
> installed on, and that machine only, the copy can however be sold with
that
> machine. Previously, MS allowed you to format the drive of the machine
that
> you are selling, and reinstall it on your new machine, but not any more.
> He gave me the example of a situation that arose with one of his
customers.
> The customer had a PC stolen.The thieves did not steal the original
Windows
> XP CD. The customer though that as far as MS were concerned, he was quite
> entitled to install the OS on his new PC that was supplied by the
insurance
> company.
> The Computer Shop owner told him that according to the MS license, he was
> unable do so. The customer was understandably livid, and was told by the
> Shop owner to ring MS and ask them. The customer did so, and was told by
MS
> that this was in fact the case.
> Please note that I have not read the MS license to see if this is actually
> stated within it. Please don't flame me for posting this as it is only
what
> I have been told.
> I have known this guy for years, and he was very emphatic that this was
the
> case.
> I can not believe that you can't legally do this. Can any MS dealers or
> Computer Techs etc confirm or deny this?
> If this is true, then I feel that this is another case of MS getting too
> Greedy.

> Darf

> > "If you get a new computer, you are entitled to remove Windows XP from
> > the one that is being junked, and install the same Windows XP on the
> > new machine - but you will have to do the reactivation by a voice call
> > and explain."

by **Darf** » Wed, 18 Sep 2002 22:26:29

But why shouldn't you be able to sell the PC, Format the hard drive and
install the same copy on your new PC?
That would be no different from me buying GPL every time I upgrade my P.C.
and Papy forcing me to sell GPL with my old PC every I update my PC.
This would mean that since I bought GPL in 1997 (I think). I would have had
to buy it 5 Times.
What about when buying a Music CD? You are basically buying the right to
play the Music that is on that CD, for your own use, for the whole of your
life, or until you decide to sell the CD. What if the record company said
that every time you buy a new CD player, you have to sell the CD with the
player and buy a new one for the new CD player?
People would tell them where to get off.
That is what they will start to do to MS via Piracy, if they do require you
to keep scrapping the OS.
The next thing I have heard is that MS are considering only leasing their OS
to the consumer. We would have to phone MS yearly with our Credit card
details, to pay for another 12 month subscription. We would then be given a
code for reactivation.
If this is true then it stinks of Greed.
I already know a few people that would gladly pay for a Non restricted copy
of XP home, but use the Pirated Copy of XP Pro from the Internet because
they don't wish to have the activation headaches.
MS should be encouraging the use of their genuine software by making it more
convenient and user friendly, instead of being Greedy and making it a pain
in the ***to use.

Darf

by **Joachim Trens** » Thu, 19 Sep 2002 00:57:07

Well I'm only guessing here and interpreting things as I understand them,
but I think what the dealer said with this referred to pre-installed
versions sold together with the hardware. These might be limited to the
hardware they're sold with. However, I also think that there are countries
where such a limitation is prohibited by law.

I also don't think a version purchased separately could not be wiped from
one HD and then installed onto another. But as I said, I'm not a lawyer, I'm
only telling you my private opinion.

Achim

by **MadDAW** » Wed, 18 Sep 2002 21:47:34

If this is true what is the key coomponet to a system for us that build our
own? Is it the case? (thats what a sticker gets put on) We can change
motherboards, chips, hard drives etc. So when is it changing systems?

MadDAWG

by **Darf** » Wed, 18 Sep 2002 23:17:24

As I said in my original post:
He told me that this applies to both the OEM version and the full Retail
Version of XP.

Darf

by **Darf** » Wed, 18 Sep 2002 23:30:22

I asked Michael ( the MS dealer ) the very same question.
He said that it is the case of the machine, as that is what the sticker IS
stuck to.
I also asked him about this scenario:
A Blinding flash comes out of your PC's power supply. You cannot get a
replacement power supply that fits into the original case, this did happen
to a friend of mine.
So you get a new case, including a new power supply, and fit all of your
original hardware into the new case.
I asked if this means that you now have to buy a new copy of XP.
He said, in Theory Yes, as you cannot remove the sticker and MS will not
issue replacement stickers.
In this case, going by what the license states, to do this is illegal, as
there would be no sticker on the new case, no sticker means an illegal
installation of XP.
I know what you are all thinking.....Well if that happened to me, I would
just run an illegal installation of XP and MS could get stuffed.
Funny about that, my thoughts precisely :-)

Darf

by **DragonRide** » Thu, 19 Sep 2002 00:05:44

Might want to change the topic to 'Win XP Licensing Rights' as it has
no sims content at all.

Second, frankly I don't give a ***what they consider their licensing
rights. If I bought the machine and the program came with it as far
as I'm concerned I bought the program. I will install it on as many
machines down the road as I see fit. Why? I bought it. that's like
buying a car and keeping the wheels/tires and putting them on other
cars. No law out there says you can't and realistically even if there
was the odds of being prosecuted are nil. On the other hand, now that
they supposedly have a sticker on every machine with a serial # anyone
with a bootleg copy of the cd can now go in and copy it down then use
it on their own machine. Smooth move M$FT.

>The guy at the computer store that I buy from, whose company is a certified
>MS dealership, told me this:
>Since MS started supplying the sticker with the serial number on it, this
>must be stuck on the P.C. that it is originally installed on.
>If it is not, then the copy of Windows is Illegally installed on the PC.
>He also said that the MS license states this, and also states that the OS
>cannot be reinstalled on another PC even if you format the drive on the
>original PC.
>He told me that this applies to both the OEM version and the full Retail
>Version of XP. He said that the copy is licensed to the machine that it was
>installed on, and that machine only, the copy can however be sold with that
>machine. Previously, MS allowed you to format the drive of the machine that
>you are selling, and reinstall it on your new machine, but not any more.
>He gave me the example of a situation that arose with one of his customers.
>The customer had a PC stolen.The thieves did not steal the original Windows
>XP CD. The customer though that as far as MS were concerned, he was quite
>entitled to install the OS on his new PC that was supplied by the insurance
>company.
>The Computer Shop owner told him that according to the MS license, he was
>unable do so. The customer was understandably livid, and was told by the
>Shop owner to ring MS and ask them. The customer did so, and was told by MS
>that this was in fact the case.
>Please note that I have not read the MS license to see if this is actually
>stated within it. Please don't flame me for posting this as it is only what
>I have been told.
>I have known this guy for years, and he was very emphatic that this was the
>case.
>I can not believe that you can't legally do this. Can any MS dealers or
>Computer Techs etc confirm or deny this?
>If this is true, then I feel that this is another case of MS getting too
>Greedy.

>Darf

>> "If you get a new computer, you are entitled to remove Windows XP from
>> the one that is being junked, and install the same Windows XP on the
>> new machine - but you will have to do the reactivation by a voice call
>> and explain."

by **Mitch Alatorr** » Thu, 19 Sep 2002 00:23:54

While I'm not exactly sure of all of the legal issues of the EULA I can
tell you that if you get a new pc you can call the WIA activation center
and get that record updated to reflect the new pc's hardware. Now I
don't know how many times this would work or any details on it but it's
worked a couple times for me without issue.

Mandrake 9.0 Rocks!

Mitch

BTW: Aside from the WIA stuff XP is the best product BillCo has come
out with..

> Subject: Re: ot-Win XP versus W98se for sims
> Date: Tuesday, 3 September 2002 2:19 AM

> The guy at the computer store that I buy from, whose company is a certified
> MS dealership, told me this:
> Since MS started supplying the sticker with the serial number on it, this
> must be stuck on the P.C. that it is originally installed on.
> If it is not, then the copy of Windows is Illegally installed on the PC.
> He also said that the MS license states this, and also states that the OS
> cannot be reinstalled on another PC even if you format the drive on the
> original PC.
> He told me that this applies to both the OEM version and the full Retail
> Version of XP. He said that the copy is licensed to the machine that it was
> installed on, and that machine only, the copy can however be sold with that
> machine. Previously, MS allowed you to format the drive of the machine that
> you are selling, and reinstall it on your new machine, but not any more.
> He gave me the example of a situation that arose with one of his customers.
> The customer had a PC stolen.The thieves did not steal the original Windows
> XP CD. The customer though that as far as MS were concerned, he was quite
> entitled to install the OS on his new PC that was supplied by the insurance
> company.
> The Computer Shop owner told him that according to the MS license, he was
> unable do so. The customer was understandably livid, and was told by the
> Shop owner to ring MS and ask them. The customer did so, and was told by MS
> that this was in fact the case.
> Please note that I have not read the MS license to see if this is actually
> stated within it. Please don't flame me for posting this as it is only what
> I have been told.
> I have known this guy for years, and he was very emphatic that this was the
> case.
> I can not believe that you can't legally do this. Can any MS dealers or
> Computer Techs etc confirm or deny this?
> If this is true, then I feel that this is another case of MS getting too
> Greedy.

> Darf

by **David Butter** » Thu, 19 Sep 2002 00:32:28

Maybe it's some weird Australian law - I'm *fairly* sure that reselling
the *retail* version of XP is legal in the UK.

--
The GPL Scrapyard: http://www.btinternet.com/~gplscrapyard
(including the Kinlet Park circuit - currently in beta)

Idiotic deep-linking restrictions: http://www.dontlink.com

by **Dave Henri** » Thu, 19 Sep 2002 00:58:14

Is there some form of copy protection that would PREVENT moving the OS to
another system. I have never read a user agreement, I have never abided by
the draconian terms there-in and I would NEVER not consider moving a product
that I legally bought from one system to another. I buy the product, not
the damn license. And if they want to sick their attack dog lawyers on
me...I'll ring up the national media...
(ps if you never here from me again, you'll know I was wrong..) :0
dave henrie

by **Jone Tytlandsvi** » Thu, 19 Sep 2002 01:32:26

I think the "Activation" stuff in Windows lets you change 7 different parts
before it kicks in and denies you access to your computer. The case and
powersupply is not one of the hardware parts WindowsXP are able to keep
track of. If you replace more then 7 parts that WindowsXP can track, I think
you can call MS and have them "open up" your legal WindowsXP installation.
If you trash your old PC and want to install on a new one, more then 7 parts
will be different, and you will be unable to activate Windows XP. But there
are way's around that, just as easy as a NOCD patch for any of your sims.
I would worry about how the activation rubbish work, not the legal issues.
I have never had any MS serial stickers on any of My PC's and I probably
never will.

Jone.

by **MadDAW** » Thu, 19 Sep 2002 01:09:18

Well all right then. I just won't stick any sticker on my case then. Altough
the case is about the one thing I don't change very often.

MadDAWG

by JM » Thu, 19 Sep 2002 03:34:00

>> As I said in my original post:
>> He told me that this applies to both the OEM version and the full
>> Retail Version of XP.

> Maybe it's some weird Australian law - I'm *fairly* sure that reselling
> the *retail* version of XP is legal in the UK.

I'm not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV, but there are two things I
*think* apply in UK law at least.

1) such a restriction is unlawful
2) a contract with any unlawful elements in it is entirely void

Having said that, even if the above were true, I don't have enough savings
to get as far as the courtroom to begin explaining that Bill Gates is a
thieving pirate and makes unlawful contracts.

The best one I ever saw was the install disks for a HP tape drive- the
envelope the disks were in had a disclaimer "by breaking this seal you
agree to all the licensing terms and conditions in the end user license
agreement." Guess where the EULA was? That's right- inside the envelope :)

Get your 12 year old kid to buy windows for you, last I heard minors (at
least under 13) can't be legally bound by contracts, including EULAs.

cheers
John

by **MadDAW** » Thu, 19 Sep 2002 02:34:17

I'll be next so if you disappear I'm outta here.

MadDAWG

rec.autos.simulators

OT-Win XP versus W98se for sims

OT-Win XP versus W98se for sims

OT-Win XP versus W98se for sims

OT-Win XP versus W98se for sims

OT-Win XP versus W98se for sims

OT-Win XP versus W98se for sims

OT-Win XP versus W98se for sims

OT-Win XP versus W98se for sims

OT-Win XP versus W98se for sims

OT-Win XP versus W98se for sims

OT-Win XP versus W98se for sims

OT-Win XP versus W98se for sims

OT-Win XP versus W98se for sims

OT-Win XP versus W98se for sims

OT-Win XP versus W98se for sims

OT-Win XP versus W98se for sims