rec.autos.simulators

by **Larr** » Fri, 20 Sep 2002 05:51:41

I don't give a rats ass about a sticker :)

I have an original CD, a receipt, and a phone number to call to re-activate
if I need to.

And my Retail box of XP Home did not have any sticker in the box. The S/N
was affixed to the cardboard holder the CD was in.

-Larry

> That is fine, but how can you be in line with the license, if you can't
get
> the sticker off the old box, and MS won't issue you with another one?
> Even if you get the retail version, you still have to put the sticker on
the
> PC to comply with the license.

> Darf

> > This is _partially_ correct.

> > However, Off-The-Shelf RETAIL versions can be transferred to a new
> computer
> > as long as it is removed from the previous computer completely.

by **Tim** » Fri, 20 Sep 2002 12:27:10

Are you saying the initial install requires an initial 'activation' ?

--
Tim White
www.intracmotorsports.com

The answer is, if you format the drive, XP sees it as a new installation, this then requires re activation, the same as it did when you first installed it.

The only way around this that I can see is if you Ghost the drive to a CD or another drive, after you have activated it.
When the installation becomes too trashy then just copy the ghost back to the hard drive. This is how I do it. Saves a lot of work as well.The ghost copies across in about 15 minutes, you reboot the machine and away you go.
For me to get to this stage doing a full reinstall from a clean format, will take me 2 nights. 2 nights that I could have been GPLing or LFSing :-)

Darf

What if you format the drive?

I routinely reformat and reinstall Win and Win-based products much more often than I change hardware. Has been that way for many years. I even had a MS support tech online who once told me he did the same thing to his box at least once a year.

So, my question really would be, just how does XP know its been configured 6 times if the drive has been reformatted and XP is then 'reinstalled'.

--
Tim White
www.intracmotorsports.com

by **Darf** » Fri, 20 Sep 2002 15:34:43

Yes, the initial install requires activation otherwise it will stop you from using it after a set time period

Darf

Are you saying the initial install requires an initial 'activation' ?

by **Tim** » Sat, 21 Sep 2002 02:02:02

Yea, I read more about it. Looks like MS is backing off on some of its WPA requirements.
There is also some pretty neat hacks out there for it.

--
Tim White
www.intracmotorsports.com

Yes, the initial install requires activation otherwise it will stop you from using it after a set time period

Darf

Are you saying the initial install requires an initial 'activation' ?

by **Larr** » Sat, 21 Sep 2002 04:19:11

Yep.

-Larry

Are you saying the initial install requires an initial 'activation' ?

--
Tim White
www.intracmotorsports.com

The answer is, if you format the drive, XP sees it as a new installation, this then requires re activation, the same as it did when you first installed it.

The only way around this that I can see is if you Ghost the drive to a CD or another drive, after you have activated it.
When the installation becomes too trashy then just copy the ghost back to the hard drive. This is how I do it. Saves a lot of work as well.The ghost copies across in about 15 minutes, you reboot the machine and away you go.
For me to get to this stage doing a full reinstall from a clean format, will take me 2 nights. 2 nights that I could have been GPLing or LFSing :-)

Darf

What if you format the drive?

I routinely reformat and reinstall Win and Win-based products much more often than I change hardware. Has been that way for many years. I even had a MS support tech online who once told me he did the same thing to his box at least once a year.

So, my question really would be, just how does XP know its been configured 6 times if the drive has been reformatted and XP is then 'reinstalled'.

--
Tim White
www.intracmotorsports.com

by **Larr** » Sat, 21 Sep 2002 04:19:54

Not much :) In fact they instituted a major crack-down (no pun intended) with the Service Pack 1 release.

-Larry

Yea, I read more about it. Looks like MS is backing off on some of its WPA requirements.
There is also some pretty neat hacks out there for it.

--
Tim White
www.intracmotorsports.com

Yes, the initial install requires activation otherwise it will stop you from using it after a set time period

Darf

Are you saying the initial install requires an initial 'activation' ?

by **Eldre** » Sat, 21 Sep 2002 05:26:55

>No one gives a flip about the sticker.
>But the whole point of the post was what is legal and what is not.
>No sticker according to the license means that you can face court if they
>catch you....that's all.

I was just going on the basis of "How are they gonna CATCH you...?"

Eldred
--
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
GPLRank:+8.03
N2002 Rank:+20.124

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by J » Sat, 21 Sep 2002 09:42:03

Of course 5 or 6 for having spare if needed

JensSchumi

>I know people (can't mention any names) that have 3 or 4 pc's running XP on
>every machine.
>Take a guess how many copies they purchased?

>Darf

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by **Darf** » Sat, 21 Sep 2002 09:48:57

If you build your own machines and install the Original Equipment
Manufacturer ( OEM ) version of XP or the full retail version for that
matter, weather you like it or not you are legally bound by the EULA. You do
know what the EULA is right?
You electronically sign it when you install the OS.
So when the Microsoft van pulls up out the front of your place, accompanied
by 3 or 4 Fed looking guys, Just tell them that you are not bound by the
EULA because you build your own P.C.s . They will all laugh so hard they
will wet their pants as they cart you away.

Darf

by **Aibhne ?? hAimhirg??** » Sat, 21 Sep 2002 11:27:45

What the hell does this discussion have to do with the merits of XP versus
98se in regards to sims??

> Subject: Re: ot-Win XP versus W98se for sims
> Date: Tuesday, 3 September 2002 2:19 AM

> The guy at the computer store that I buy from, whose company is a
certified
> MS dealership, told me this:
> Since MS started supplying the sticker with the serial number on it, this
> must be stuck on the P.C. that it is originally installed on.
> If it is not, then the copy of Windows is Illegally installed on the PC.
> He also said that the MS license states this, and also states that the OS
> cannot be reinstalled on another PC even if you format the drive on the
> original PC.
> He told me that this applies to both the OEM version and the full Retail
> Version of XP. He said that the copy is licensed to the machine that it
was
> installed on, and that machine only, the copy can however be sold with
that
> machine. Previously, MS allowed you to format the drive of the machine
that
> you are selling, and reinstall it on your new machine, but not any more.
> He gave me the example of a situation that arose with one of his
customers.
> The customer had a PC stolen.The thieves did not steal the original
Windows
> XP CD. The customer though that as far as MS were concerned, he was quite
> entitled to install the OS on his new PC that was supplied by the
insurance
> company.
> The Computer Shop owner told him that according to the MS license, he was
> unable do so. The customer was understandably livid, and was told by the
> Shop owner to ring MS and ask them. The customer did so, and was told by
MS
> that this was in fact the case.
> Please note that I have not read the MS license to see if this is actually
> stated within it. Please don't flame me for posting this as it is only
what
> I have been told.
> I have known this guy for years, and he was very emphatic that this was
the
> case.
> I can not believe that you can't legally do this. Can any MS dealers or
> Computer Techs etc confirm or deny this?
> If this is true, then I feel that this is another case of MS getting too
> Greedy.

> Darf

> > "If you get a new computer, you are entitled to remove Windows XP from
> > the one that is being junked, and install the same Windows XP on the
> > new machine - but you will have to do the reactivation by a voice call
> > and explain."

by **Eldre** » Sat, 21 Sep 2002 13:38:41

>What the hell does this discussion have to do with the merits of XP versus
>98se in regards to sims??

There AREN'T any merits, so they made their own discussion...<g>

Eldred
--
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by **Ming** » Sat, 21 Sep 2002 15:26:37

Tying OEM version of Windows to a single machine is not something new
with XP, it has been around probably since Win95. If you're running
Win98, have a look in C:\windows for 'license.txt', and then look for
the section on 'Software Product Transfer'.

Compared to MS habit of changing the EULA with security patches where
unless you accept the changes, you cannot apply the patches, tying OEM
Windows to a single machine is actually a fairly benign aspect of
their licensing practices.

As for product activation in XP, there are basically 3 different
versions. Corporate volume licenses have no WPA. OEM licenses used
by likes of Dell and Gateway have WPA tied to the mobo bios, in
'retail OEM' and retail versions, WPA is tied to 10 components,
they are CPU id, CPU type, IDE and SCSI controllers, video card, RAM
size, HDD, HDD volume number, CD and NIC MAC,

When determining if the system components have changed enough to
require reactivation each of the 10 components has 1 vote, except the
NIC which counts for 3. For desktop systems, you need to have 7
matching votes to avoid reactivation, for laptops, you need only 4.

All the information is kept in a single encrypted file, if you lose
that file, you will have to reactivate and changes are cumulative
until reactivation is needed, then the profile is reset to the new
configuration.

MS has said that they'd only keep each individual activation id for 6
months, so in theory, you can install XP in a different machine every
6 months and it'll have no problem with activation. However, I've
only seen this feature reported in the press and have not seen any
documentation from MS on it.

SP1 brought along a few changes to WPA, such as the 3 days grace
period for reactivation, and including the full product key in the
activation id. This latter feature, along with the new Windows Update
(v4.windowsupdate.microsoft.com) site for XP and Win2000 which
collects Plug & Play ID numbers of hardware devices, gives MS the
capability to profoundly change the activation process.

So, in answer to your question, Win98SE is definitely much better for
sims.

by **Joachim Trens** » Sat, 21 Sep 2002 19:51:51

Well, for someone who tries to follow the laws and rules, more or less
restrictive EULAs and other rules and regulations can affect the usability
of an OS or other software for his purposes, and can make one OS (with a
less restrictive or clearer EULA) better suited for his purposes than
another one (with a more restrictive or less understandable EULA). And this
can even differ according to national law, which unfortunately the EULA
often does not reflect, leaving more uncertainty for those users who try to
do every in a legally correct way.

If someone who likes to modify his system hardware a lot must worry that the
EULA would prevent him from doing what he needs to do with his OS, then of
course that's interesting for him.

Since many simmers tend to keep their hardware pretty much updated all the
time as they want and need the best computing power for their sims, I think
this discussion is indeed useful to get a clearer view of what's possible or
not, and potential risks or implications one might not have noticed yet.
Especially since all this really isn't always that easy to understand.

I'm reading it with interest.

Achim

by **Darf** » Sat, 21 Sep 2002 20:12:06

Very interesting reading

Darf

> Tying OEM version of Windows to a single machine is not something new
> with XP, it has been around probably since Win95. If you're running
> Win98, have a look in C:\windows for 'license.txt', and then look for
> the section on 'Software Product Transfer'.

> Compared to MS habit of changing the EULA with security patches where
> unless you accept the changes, you cannot apply the patches, tying OEM
> Windows to a single machine is actually a fairly benign aspect of
> their licensing practices.

> As for product activation in XP, there are basically 3 different
> versions. Corporate volume licenses have no WPA. OEM licenses used
> by likes of Dell and Gateway have WPA tied to the mobo bios, in
> 'retail OEM' and retail versions, WPA is tied to 10 components,
> they are CPU id, CPU type, IDE and SCSI controllers, video card, RAM
> size, HDD, HDD volume number, CD and NIC MAC,

> When determining if the system components have changed enough to
> require reactivation each of the 10 components has 1 vote, except the
> NIC which counts for 3. For desktop systems, you need to have 7
> matching votes to avoid reactivation, for laptops, you need only 4.

> All the information is kept in a single encrypted file, if you lose
> that file, you will have to reactivate and changes are cumulative
> until reactivation is needed, then the profile is reset to the new
> configuration.

> MS has said that they'd only keep each individual activation id for 6
> months, so in theory, you can install XP in a different machine every
> 6 months and it'll have no problem with activation. However, I've
> only seen this feature reported in the press and have not seen any
> documentation from MS on it.

> SP1 brought along a few changes to WPA, such as the 3 days grace
> period for reactivation, and including the full product key in the
> activation id. This latter feature, along with the new Windows Update
> (v4.windowsupdate.microsoft.com) site for XP and Win2000 which
> collects Plug & Play ID numbers of hardware devices, gives MS the
> capability to profoundly change the activation process.

> So, in answer to your question, Win98SE is definitely much better for
> sims.

by **Darf** » Sat, 21 Sep 2002 20:27:50

I am still debating this issue with Michael.
He tells me that from past experience, he can phone MS 3 times in one day
and get 3 different opinions from 3 different people on a licensing issue.
He told me to phone MS myself and try it, so I did.
I spoke to a girl and she told me the following regarding the issues
surrounding this post........
She told me that with OEM, the copy of XP has to stay with the Hardware.
She said that you may sell the PC with the OEM copy of XP.
I asked her if the sticker has to be stuck to the PC, she stated : No, some
dealers stick it to the box so that you dont loose the Serial Number, but
they don't have to stick it on the box, they should however supply the
sticker with the PC.
Now Michael insists that he has been sent documentation from MS stating that
the sticker must be stuck on the box, if not, the Dealer is in breach of the
MS license. So who is right?
As far as the Retail Version goes, she said that you can transfer it to a
new PC as long as you format the old machines drive.

I throw my hands in the air

Darf

rec.autos.simulators

OT-Win XP versus W98se for sims

OT-Win XP versus W98se for sims

OT-Win XP versus W98se for sims

OT-Win XP versus W98se for sims

OT-Win XP versus W98se for sims

OT-Win XP versus W98se for sims

OT-Win XP versus W98se for sims

OT-Win XP versus W98se for sims

OT-Win XP versus W98se for sims

OT-Win XP versus W98se for sims

OT-Win XP versus W98se for sims

OT-Win XP versus W98se for sims

OT-Win XP versus W98se for sims

OT-Win XP versus W98se for sims

OT-Win XP versus W98se for sims

OT-Win XP versus W98se for sims