rec.autos.simulators

> --

> "Racing! - Science for the action minded."

> mark


> > **Rally Trophy Demo Bug Found**

> > For all of you who have become distrustful of your manly-hood and rally
> > driving skills......trying to get from a 2:28-to-2:29 range down into
the
> > 2:22-to-2:23 range where the "aliens" are running.........you've just
been
> > vindicated!  It is unfortunate however, that many of you have already
hung
> > yourself or jumped out of 5th story window of your office building or
> > apartment complex....in total frustration.  May those of you who have
done
> > that already..........."rest in peace!"

> > To those of us who are left on this planet with us..........

> > **Take note:  A bug was found in the RT demo that invalidates any stage
> time
> > much below 2:28 or so.......maybe even hire.  Certainly, any time turned
> in
> > well below that is completely bogus!  Essentially what this means is, if
> you
> > were running your well-driven stage runs at around the 2:28 to 2:29
range
> or
> > so.......that's your real time and you are a very good rally driver (at
> > least in RT you are).  Those times are the same as the 2:22's and 2:23's
> > others were getting, but their computers were reporting those times from
a
> > bogus coding bug.....their times really are the same as the 2:28's to
> 2:29's
> > you get!

> > """""WATCH THE ALIENS SCATTER""""""

> > This is very important******  This applies only to the RT Demo which is
> > confirmed by Bugbear codeheads - THE DEMO IS NOT FINAL CODE and this bug
> > does not exist in the Rally Trophy Final Release code (due out in 13
> days).
> > We can all rest assured, and wait in high-anticipation....for the final
> > release of RT....it will be awesome and we now know that we have a good
> > group of people at Bugbear (the developer) who will stand behind their
> code
> > and work with the sim community to make their product better as time
goes
> > on.  BRAVO!  Bugbear!  I'm buying three copies of RT just to say, "thank
> > you."

> > **Related Story**

> > It is thought by many code-savvy techies that a similar bug exists in
GPL
> > and has never been fixed.  It is being, however, exploited by many of
the
> > historical "fast-guys" on VROC which have now been termed "aliens" by
the
> > rest of us.  This "bug" is being confirmed and validated as we speak.  A
> > list of people known to have been exploiting this bug and taking credit
> for
> > being good sim drivers, is now in preparation for widespread
distribution
> to
> > all known league officials and sim racing websites throughout the
> Internet.

> > The RT story, and so forth......just goes to show you why all this
> emphasis
> > on "hot lapping" in GPL and to a lesser extent, in N4....is such a huge
> > waste of time and effort.  It also leads to the phenomenon seen
currently
> on
> > VROC as follows:  The new "hotlapper breed" that has been termed,
> > "aliens"...... races the same way as they "practice" hotlapping (funny
how
> > your mind, and hand-eye coordination tends to do what you practice
making
> it
> > do).  They crash and burn themselves and anyone around them..........9
out
> > of 10 races they enter.  They win one of them with a 5 lap margin
(usually
> > because another "hotlapper-alien" has taken out the rest of the field).

> > Fortunately.......These people are very easy to spot and avoid.

> > Just ask them, "How good of a driver they are in GPL?  When they respond
> > with telling you their PB times at every track....avoid them like the
> > plague......these people are like insects with anthrax spores on their
> hairy
> > arms and legs!  Stay away from them!  I vote we change the term we use
for
> > these "hotlappers" from **Aliens** to **Insects**  .....it fits them so
> much
> > better!  Aliens at least have an intelligence factor associated with
> > them....that is completely lacking from these "hotlappers".....insects
do
> > not have any brains at all (or maybe just some green microscopic mush),
> > "insects" is a much better fit of a term, I think..... for these
> > "hotlappers!"  Don't you think?

> > From now on, when you ask someone on VROC or in N4 how good of a driver
> they
> > are, and they respond with telling you how they are doing in their
current
> > "Friday Nite" league, or they tell you about a good online race they won
> > last night, or last weekend......and they never mention anything about
> their
> > fastest lap anywhere at any track.  Then.......that is a good guy!  You
> > should embrace him, get his email address, invite him to race with you
and
> > your group.......nurture him!  If you find an "insect"........spray him
> with
> > RAID! .....RUN FROM HIM!  HE HAS ANTHRAX SPORES ALL OVER HIM!  He will
> kill
> > you......(and this sport of sim racing).

> > We've come all this way from the days of "Dega" pick-up races on "TEN"
to
> > come to this?  What a sad commentary that is..... on sim racing today.
It
> > makes me want to cry.

> > Tom Pabst - Insect Hunter
> > Pabst-Racing

> Thank you for your time.

> "Tom Pabst" <tmpa...@home.com> wrote in message
> news:aAWE7.17000$wj5.8018816@news1.rdc1.sfba.home.com...
> > "Thank you" to everyone who posted comments below.......

> > Before addressing some specific issues raised below, let me explain that
> the
> > RT Demo real-time clock, physics-clock "bug" was/is real.  The GPL "bug"
> was
> > a "bug light" - turned on to attract the "insects."  Some of you might
> call
> > this a "troll"....I have learned that's a bad word in newsgroups.  Who
> > cares.  You can place any labels you want on my efforts to improve the
> > quality of online racing....I will not stop this effort as long as
> "insects"
> > exist in online racing.  The vast majority of drivers in the sim
community
> > support my effort to eliminate or completely de-emphasize "hotlapping"
> > because it ruins online racing as an enjoyable and competitive form of
> motor
> > racing.  This "majority" simply don't make posts on r.a.s, many of whom
> > never even come to this newsgroup.  They are the "silent majority" in
this
> > online racing community.

> > **To the "Insects" who posted below:

> > 1.  The rest of this post I will be talking down to you.  I am stating
> that
> > fact up front so there's no misunderstanding on your part that I do not
> > respect you as a sim driver, nor do I respect your ability to drive your
> sim
> > car at 90-100% max performance and occasionally, pull off a lucky lap in
> > which you do not crash - then rush to various "Insect Websites" and post
> > your feat!  I wouldn't care what you did with your computer and the sim
> > racing software you purchased....if you did it offline and did not join
> > online races....therefore your actions and stupidity would not effect me
> or
> > the majority of sim drivers who simply want to race online in a
realistic
> > manner.  If all of you would agree to do your "gaming" stuff offline,
then
> > you will never hear another word from me about this topic.  Can you all
do
> > that, please?

> > 2.  Exceptions to a rule always exist and do not negate the rule.

> > 3.  The skills required to drive a race car very fast are not hard to
> learn,
> > vast numbers of the general population contain reasonable hand-eye
> > coordination and with a little instruction they can learn to drive a
race
> > car, any race car ....very fast.  Every driver in real-world racing at
any
> > level understands this fact (certainly at the top pro levels of racing)
> and
> > they also know that the difference between successful winners and the
rest
> > of the pack....is NOT the fact that the successful drivers contain
unique
> > driving skills not possessed by every other driver.  That simply does
not
> > exist in racing....anywhere .....and sim racing is no exception to this
> > rule!

> > 4.  There is a very small number of real-world drivers in the annals of
> > racing history in which I direct you to refer to number #2 above.

> > 5.  I will explain what you are doing to hurt sim racing (for at least
the
> > one millionth time in the last five years):  When you run lap after lap
at
> > 90-100% max, in search of that illusive fastest ever lap (defined anyway
> you
> > want to define it), what you do is train your subconscious mind's
hand-eye
> > coordination and micro-second decision making ability, to "race" at that
> > same level.  Since there is no driver ever (anywhere, any time,
none...not
> > one)......who can maintain 90-100% max performance race driving for more
> > than a few laps without crashing or breaking their race car.....your are
> > therefore training your self to crash!  Is that clear?  I can't think of
> how
> > much clearer I can make it.  When you (the Insects) are allowed so much
> > prominence and public exposure within this sim community, without
somebody
> > speaking up and reminding everyone that you are nothing but a "gamer" if
> you
> > hotlap all the time, then new drivers to this sim community begin to
> follow
> > false leaders.....the entire community suffers since the quality of
online
> > sim "racing" (notice I said "racing" not online sim "driving") declines.

> > 6.  A question for the Insects:  If we could somehow introduce the
> ultimate
> > reality into sim racing......defined as creating culpability for
> hotlapping
> > crashes (or any crash).......defined as physical injury and/or cost of
> > repair to your race car....how much interest would you continue to have
in
> > this "gaming activity" you engage in with a racing sim?  This is easy to
> do.
> > We could put a program on your boot drive that kicks in every time you
> crash
> > your GPL race car (or any other sim car you drive)....it will
> automatically
> > shut down your computer.  Upon reboot, you will be required to enter a
> > credit card number, and $200 will be charged to your credit card....then
> > your computer will boot up back to the desktop and you can go run some
> more
> > hot laps!  How does that sound?  Not very good, you say?
> Well....real-world
> > racing has a similar "boot/crash" program.....its just not called the
same
> > thing, you know?

> > 7.  In the face of crashing culpability as stated in number #6 above, if
> an
> > "insect" continued this hotlapping activity, how long would it take for
> > everyone who knew him to call him an idiot!  "Running up thousands and
> > thousands of dollars on his credit card so he could lower is PB at Monza
> by
> > a 10th of a second".......that would not be considered sane and rational
> > behavior for any human being.  So....let me ask all the "insects" this
> > question:  "Is it the fact that you don't have to pay for all your
> > crashes.....is that your argument for saying that what you are doing is
> sane
> > and rational?"  I just want to make sure I understand your position on
> this.
> > Because I want to remind you that although you don't have to pay for all
> > your crashes......"but we do" when you crash us out of an online race
> > because that's the only way you have practiced to race online.....you
> > practice crashing all the time, guess what:  You are going to crash all
> the
> > time!  Duh!  WE ARE NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS ANY LONGER!  Please get
> offline,
> > go away, stop doing what you are doing....or find another "gaming
> > activity"....PLEASE!

> > **To all the rest of us....the non-Insects.............

> > 1.  Can you guys imagine how good these guys would really be as sim
> drivers
> > if they spent all that time they now spend learning to crash......on
> > learning race strategy, how to drive their cars in control and avoid
> > sticking their nose in the wrong place at the wrong time, how to "think
> > their way" to the podium and how to work on their setups to achieve car
> > stability in even the most "out of shape" situations that every race
puts
> us
> > into at one time or another?  Can you imagine how hard they might be to
> beat
> > at Monza (for example) if they spent several hundred laps practicing
> driving
> > completely out of the racing line there (which is where we all find
> > ourselves for about 30% of every race we run....at any track)?  Can you
> > imagine how good these guys would be with all that practice?  Wow!
Isn't
> it
> > a shame we don't have these people to race against......that would be
> great,
> > wouldn't it?

> > 2.  Two days ago, a very prominent member of VROC and the GPL online
> racing
> > community wrote an email to me in response to a question I asked him
about
> > how he practices in GPL.  His name is "Mac"....I'm sure many of you know
> > him.  Here is his response......

> >     My goals in a GPL race (league race or pick up race....they are all
> the
> > same to me....both equally important):

> >         1.  Avoid car contact with another competitor at all costs.
> >         2.  Finish the race (or in a no-damage race = finish without
going
> > off track).
> >         3.  Practice hard between races so I can make it to the podium
> > without violating the goals in #1 and #2 above.

> > 3.  If you want to improve online sim racing, stop bitching about it in
> > private chat rooms and email, and start speaking up against all this
> > prominence on hotlapping in this community.......publicly!  I know you
> don't
> > like doing that, most of you are conservative guys that shy away from
> public
> > limelight.  But, heck.....if you don't speak up......you are only
hurting
> > yourself in the end.  I'm challenging you to end your silence and speak
up
> > about this issue when ever you have the chance.

> > Regards, (except to the Insects)

> > Tom Pabst

> > "Tom Pabst" <tmpa...@home.com> wrote in message
> > news:idjE7.9555$wj5.3531635@news1.rdc1.sfba.home.com...
> > > **Rally Trophy Demo Bug Found**

> > > For all of you who have become distrustful of your manly-hood and
rally
> > > driving skills......trying to get from a 2:28-to-2:29 range down into
> the
> > > 2:22-to-2:23 range where the "aliens" are running.........you've just
> been
> > > vindicated!  It is unfortunate however, that many of you have already
> hung

> > Ok now let me see, so I as a BRD owner, who paid about 750 for my Pro
> > Classic and BRD Game Frame Pro plus had my old wheel brought up to spec
so
> I
> > had a backup to fall back on just incase, and am in the top20 in the
World
> > for GPL am a cheater??  GO *** YOURSELF YOU STUPID ARROGANT LITTLE
> SHIT!!!!
> > I am far from ***ing impressed and am actually utterly livid that you
> > should have the front (as BRD supplier for USA AFAIK) to imply what you
> are
> > implying, you are a ***wit of the highest order and I hope your
gentials
> > rot a hole through to your arsehole so you can disappear firmly up it
> > forever you total and utter*** of a man.

> > Thank you for your time.

> I with Marc on this one. I was intending to spend a fair chunk of my first
> 3D *** Contract on the new BRD gear when it comes out ( seveal
hundred
> pounds) ...

>  - but until I hear a retraction/appology from Tom, or that he has been
> sacked by BRD - then I will not be spending my money with a company that
> employees someone this incompetant and unknowledgeable about Simming,
Racing
> and, frankly - life.

> Doug

> Oh, and you're slow too.

> Marty

> Tom Pabst wrote:

> > "Thank you" to everyone who posted comments below.......

> > Before addressing some specific issues raised below, let me explain that
the
> > RT Demo real-time clock, physics-clock "bug" was/is real.  The GPL "bug"
was
> > a "bug light" - turned on to attract the "insects."  Some of you might
call
> > this a "troll"....I have learned that's a bad word in newsgroups.  Who
> > cares.  You can place any labels you want on my efforts to improve the
> > quality of online racing....I will not stop this effort as long as
"insects"
> > exist in online racing.  The vast majority of drivers in the sim
community
> > support my effort to eliminate or completely de-emphasize "hotlapping"
> > because it ruins online racing as an enjoyable and competitive form of
motor
> > racing.  This "majority" simply don't make posts on r.a.s, many of whom
> > never even come to this newsgroup.  They are the "silent majority" in
this
> > online racing community.

> > **To the "Insects" who posted below:

> > 1.  The rest of this post I will be talking down to you.  I am stating
that
> > fact up front so there's no misunderstanding on your part that I do not
> > respect you as a sim driver, nor do I respect your ability to drive your
sim
> > car at 90-100% max performance and occasionally, pull off a lucky lap in
> > which you do not crash - then rush to various "Insect Websites" and post
> > your feat!  I wouldn't care what you did with your computer and the sim
> > racing software you purchased....if you did it offline and did not join
> > online races....therefore your actions and stupidity would not effect me
or
> > the majority of sim drivers who simply want to race online in a
realistic
> > manner.  If all of you would agree to do your "gaming" stuff offline,
then
> > you will never hear another word from me about this topic.  Can you all
do
> > that, please?

> > 2.  Exceptions to a rule always exist and do not negate the rule.

> > 3.  The skills required to drive a race car very fast are not hard to
learn,
> > vast numbers of the general population contain reasonable hand-eye
> > coordination and with a little instruction they can learn to drive a
race
> > car, any race car ....very fast.  Every driver in real-world racing at
any
> > level understands this fact (certainly at the top pro levels of racing)
and
> > they also know that the difference between successful winners and the
rest
> > of the pack....is NOT the fact that the successful drivers contain
unique
> > driving skills not possessed by every other driver.  That simply does
not
> > exist in racing....anywhere .....and sim racing is no exception to this
> > rule!

> > 4.  There is a very small number of real-world drivers in the annals of
> > racing history in which I direct you to refer to number #2 above.

> > 5.  I will explain what you are doing to hurt sim racing (for at least
the
> > one millionth time in the last five years):  When you run lap after lap
at
> > 90-100% max, in search of that illusive fastest ever lap (defined anyway
you
> > want to define it), what you do is train your subconscious mind's
hand-eye
> > coordination and micro-second decision making ability, to "race" at that
> > same level.  Since there is no driver ever (anywhere, any time,
none...not
> > one)......who can maintain 90-100% max performance race driving for more
> > than a few laps without crashing or breaking their race car.....your are
> > therefore training your self to crash!  Is that clear?  I can't think of
how
> > much clearer I can make it.  When you (the Insects) are allowed so much
> > prominence and public exposure within this sim community, without
somebody
> > speaking up and reminding everyone that you are nothing but a "gamer" if
you
> > hotlap all the time, then new drivers to this sim community begin to
follow
> > false leaders.....the entire community suffers since the quality of
online
> > sim "racing" (notice I said "racing" not online sim "driving") declines.

> > 6.  A question for the Insects:  If we could somehow introduce the
ultimate
> > reality into sim racing......defined as creating culpability for
hotlapping
> > crashes (or any crash).......defined as physical injury and/or cost of
> > repair to your race car....how much interest would you continue to have
in
> > this "gaming activity" you engage in with a racing sim?  This is easy to
do.
> > We could put a program on your boot drive that kicks in every time you
crash
> > your GPL race car (or any other sim car you drive)....it will
automatically
> > shut down your computer.  Upon reboot, you will be required to enter a
> > credit card number, and $200 will be charged to your credit card....then
> > your computer will boot up back to the desktop and you can go run some
more
> > hot laps!  How does that sound?  Not very good, you say?
Well....real-world
> > racing has a similar "boot/crash" program.....its just not called the
same
> > thing, you know?

> > 7.  In the face of crashing culpability as stated in number #6 above, if
an
> > "insect" continued this hotlapping activity, how long would it take for
> > everyone who knew him to call him an idiot!  "Running up thousands and
> > thousands of dollars on his credit card so he could lower is PB at Monza
by
> > a 10th of a second".......that would not be considered sane and rational
> > behavior for any human being.  So....let me ask all the "insects" this
> > question:  "Is it the fact that you don't have to pay for all your
> > crashes.....is that your argument for saying that what you are doing is
sane
> > and rational?"  I just want to make sure I understand your position on
this.
> > Because I want to remind you that although you don't have to pay for all
> > your crashes......"but we do" when you crash us out of an online race
> > because that's the only way you have practiced to race online.....you
> > practice crashing all the time, guess what:  You are going to crash all
the
> > time!  Duh!  WE ARE NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS ANY LONGER!  Please get
offline,
> > go away, stop doing what you are doing....or find another "gaming
> > activity"....PLEASE!

> > **To all the rest of us....the non-Insects.............

> > 1.  Can you guys imagine how good these guys would really be as sim
drivers
> > if they spent all that time they now spend learning to crash......on
> > learning race strategy, how to drive their cars in control and avoid
> > sticking their nose in the wrong place at the wrong time, how to "think
> > their way" to the podium and how to work on their setups to achieve car
> > stability in even the most "out of shape" situations that every race
puts us
> > into at one time or another?  Can you imagine how hard they might be to
beat
> > at Monza (for example) if they spent several hundred laps practicing
driving
> > completely out of the racing line there (which is where we all find
> > ourselves for about 30% of every race we run....at any track)?  Can you
> > imagine how good these guys would be with all that practice?  Wow!
Isn't it
> > a shame we don't have these people to race against......that would be
great,
> > wouldn't it?

> > 2.  Two days ago, a very prominent member of VROC and the GPL online
racing
> > community wrote an email to me in response to a question I asked him
about
> > how he practices in GPL.  His name is "Mac"....I'm sure many of you know
> > him.  Here is his response......

> >     My goals in a GPL race (league race or pick up race....they are all
the
> > same to me....both equally important):

> >         1.  Avoid car contact with another competitor at all costs.
> >         2.  Finish the race (or in a no-damage race = finish without
going
> > off track).
> >         3.  Practice hard between races so I can make it to the podium
> > without violating the goals in #1 and #2 above.

> > 3.  If you want to improve online sim racing, stop bitching about it in
> > private chat rooms and email, and start speaking up against all this
> > prominence on hotlapping in this community.......publicly!  I know you
don't
> > like doing that, most of you are conservative guys that shy away from
public
> > limelight.  But, heck.....if you don't speak up......you are only
hurting
> > yourself in the end.  I'm challenging you to end your silence and speak
up
> > about this issue when ever you have the chance.

> > Regards, (except to the Insects)

> > Tom Pabst

> > "Tom Pabst" <tmpa...@home.com> wrote in message
> > news:idjE7.9555$wj5.3531635@news1.rdc1.sfba.home.com...
> > > **Rally Trophy Demo Bug Found**

> > > For all of you who have become distrustful of your manly-hood and
rally
> > > driving skills......trying to get from a 2:28-to-2:29 range down into
the
> > > 2:22-to-2:23 range where the "aliens" are running.........you've just
been
> > > vindicated!  It is unfortunate however, that many of you have already
hung
> > > yourself or jumped out of 5th story window of your office building or
> > > apartment complex....in total frustration.  May those of you who have
done
> > > that

> >It is thought by many code-savvy techies that a similar bug exists in GPL
> >and has never been fixed.  It is being, however, exploited by many of the
> >historical "fast-guys" on VROC which have now been termed "aliens" by the
> >rest of us.  This "bug" is being confirmed and validated as we speak.  A
> >list of people known to have been exploiting this bug and taking credit
for
> >being good sim drivers, is now in preparation for widespread distribution
to
> >all known league officials and sim racing websites throughout the
Internet.

> What a poor excuse for your 1:33 laptimes at Monza :)
> But seriously, this is very interesting. First thing that strikes me
> is you say 'it is THOUGHT..that a similar bug exists' and then you
> continue with 'it is BEING .. exploited'. Hmm..

> And how can one exploit a timing bug on purpose, and even more, how
> can the techies you mention detect -who- exploits this on purpose?
> Very weird post Tom, more details please..

> Anyway, you say it's being confirmed and validated. Please keep us
> informed with any concrete results.

> Andre

> PS Somehow I think this is the troll of all troll posts, but I
> consider you too professional for a cheap prank like this.

> >> And I think most of us who had online races with the aliens know most
> >> of them are very good and consistent drivers. To be able to drive such
> >> fast laptimes requires you to understand the car and its limits to the
> >> fullest.

> >How could you not understand the car and it's limits to the fullest if
you
> >have 2,000 hours behind the wheel of the same sim and driven a few
thousand
> >laps around the same track?

> >I think that's the point Tom is trying to make.

> >--
> >David G Fisher

> You think so David? Tom claims to have driven GPL since it's been out and
still
> can't break 33s at Monza. I've introduced people to GPL that have done
better
> in a single day. Either Toms a total bullshitter or a complete ***er
behind
> the wheel, and judging from his claim to never having lost a Monza race
I'd
> lean towards the former.

> --
> Don Scurlock
> Vancouver,B.C.

> GPLRank      -15.04
> MonsterRank  91.57

> Come see how you rank, at the GPLRank site
> http://www.racesimcentral.net/