rec.autos.simulators

> >>And perhaps still, technical insight. If you know the parts of the car
> >>and what it's doing, things get easier to understand, and you begin to
> >>reason out WHY the car is driving like it is.
> >>Knowing how ARBs work in corners, how a Salisbury diff works, how a
> >>lower steering angle may be better than a higher steering angle in
> >>some fast corners, it all helps to understand your own racing.
> >>Still, that's not a guarantee for getting in the 1:26's. :) Talent is
> >>the required as much as anything else.

> >Good point, I only know the basics of how the cars work, and learned
> >how the car reacts by practice, not by technical insight.
> >Maybe it's time for me to study those Caroll Smith books I ordered
> >from the States but never read.. :)

> Indeed! They're probably good books (I hear a lot about them). 'Tune
> to win', right? :)

> May make a difference. Or at least help you understand why your setup
> gives you the responses that they do.

> Ruud van Gaal
> Free car sim  : http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/racer/
> Pencil art    : http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/

>> And I think most of us who had online races with the aliens know most
>> of them are very good and consistent drivers. To be able to drive such
>> fast laptimes requires you to understand the car and its limits to the
>> fullest.

>How could you not understand the car and it's limits to the fullest if you
>have 2,000 hours behind the wheel of the same sim and driven a few thousand
>laps around the same track?

>I think that's the point Tom is trying to make.

>--
>David G Fisher

> > It is thought by many code-savvy techies that a similar bug exists in
GPL
> > and has never been fixed.  It is being, however, exploited by many of
the
> > historical "fast-guys" on VROC which have now been termed "aliens" by
the
> > rest of us.  This "bug" is being confirmed and validated as we speak.  A
> > list of people known to have been exploiting this bug and taking credit
for
> > being good sim drivers, is now in preparation for widespread
distribution to
> > all known league officials and sim racing websites throughout the
Internet.

> Todd

> Bollox, everyone knows it's all done with the secret grip patch. Here's
> how it works.

> 1. Start GPL.

> 2. Hold down both ctrl keys while it loads.

> 3. Type 'more grip' while still holding the left ctrl key at the front
> screen.

> And there you go!

> A guy at papy told me that one, he said to keep it a secret though, so
> don't tell anyone.

> Gerry

> For all of you who have become distrustful of your manly-hood and rally
> driving skills......trying to get from a 2:28-to-2:29 range down into the
> 2:22-to-2:23 range where the "aliens" are running.........you've just been
> vindicated!  It is unfortunate however, that many of you have already hung
> yourself or jumped out of 5th story window of your office building or
> apartment complex....in total frustration.  May those of you who have done
> that already..........."rest in peace!"

> To those of us who are left on this planet with us..........

> **Take note:  A bug was found in the RT demo that invalidates any stage
time
> much below 2:28 or so.......maybe even hire.  Certainly, any time turned
in
> well below that is completely bogus!  Essentially what this means is, if
you
> were running your well-driven stage runs at around the 2:28 to 2:29 range
or
> so.......that's your real time and you are a very good rally driver (at
> least in RT you are).  Those times are the same as the 2:22's and 2:23's
> others were getting, but their computers were reporting those times from a
> bogus coding bug.....their times really are the same as the 2:28's to
2:29's
> you get!

> """""WATCH THE ALIENS SCATTER""""""

> This is very important******  This applies only to the RT Demo which is
> confirmed by Bugbear codeheads - THE DEMO IS NOT FINAL CODE and this bug
> does not exist in the Rally Trophy Final Release code (due out in 13
days).
> We can all rest assured, and wait in high-anticipation....for the final
> release of RT....it will be awesome and we now know that we have a good
> group of people at Bugbear (the developer) who will stand behind their
code
> and work with the sim community to make their product better as time goes
> on.  BRAVO!  Bugbear!  I'm buying three copies of RT just to say, "thank
> you."

> **Related Story**

> It is thought by many code-savvy

> Tom,

> What about this insects that can do those unreal feats lap after lap day
> after day.  Having raced against a couple in GPL, N4 and other games I can
> say there are some hotlappers who are just flat out fast lap after lap.

> Go insect hunting if you like Tom, but from the last time we raced online
> you need a bit bigger gun to take on some of these insects you talk about.

> Dave

> Before addressing some specific issues raised below, let me explain that
the
> RT Demo real-time clock, physics-clock "bug" was/is real.  The GPL "bug"
was
> a "bug light" - turned on to attract the "insects."  Some of you might
call
> this a "troll"....I have learned that's a bad word in newsgroups.  Who
> cares.  You can place any labels you want on my efforts to improve the
> quality of online racing....I will not stop this effort as long as
"insects"
> exist in online racing.  The vast majority of drivers in the sim community
> support my effort to eliminate or completely de-emphasize "hotlapping"
> because it ruins online racing as an enjoyable and competitive form of
motor
> racing.  This "majority" simply don't make posts on r.a.s, many of whom
> never even come to this newsgroup.  They are the "silent majority" in this
> online racing community.

> **To the "Insects" who posted below:

> 1.  The rest of this post I will be talking down to you.  I am stating
that
> fact up front so there's no misunderstanding on your part that I do not
> respect you as a sim driver, nor do I respect your ability to drive your
sim
> car at 90-100% max performance and occasionally, pull off a lucky lap in
> which you do not crash - then rush to various "Insect Websites" and post
> your feat!  I wouldn't care what you did with your computer and the sim
> racing software you purchased....if you did it offline and did not join
> online races....therefore your actions and stupidity would not effect me
or
> the majority of sim drivers who simply want to race online in a realistic
> manner.  If all of you would agree to do your "gaming" stuff offline, then
> you will never hear another word from me about this topic.  Can you all do
> that, please?

> 2.  Exceptions to a rule always exist and do not negate the rule.

> 3.  The skills required to drive a race car very fast are not hard to
learn,
> vast numbers of the general population contain reasonable hand-eye
> coordination and with a little instruction they can learn to drive a race
> car, any race car ....very fast.  Every driver in real-world racing at any
> level understands this fact (certainly at the top pro levels of racing)
and
> they also know that the difference between successful winners and the rest
> of the pack....is NOT the fact that the successful drivers contain unique
> driving skills not possessed by every other driver.  That simply does not
> exist in racing....anywhere .....and sim racing is no exception to this
> rule!

> 4.  There is a very small number of real-world drivers in the annals of
> racing history in which I direct you to refer to number #2 above.

> 5.  I will explain what you are doing to hurt sim racing (for at least the
> one millionth time in the last five years):  When you run lap after lap at
> 90-100% max, in search of that illusive fastest ever lap (defined anyway
you
> want to define it), what you do is train your subconscious mind's hand-eye
> coordination and micro-second decision making ability, to "race" at that
> same level.  Since there is no driver ever (anywhere, any time, none...not
> one)......who can maintain 90-100% max performance race driving for more
> than a few laps without crashing or breaking their race car.....your are
> therefore training your self to crash!  Is that clear?  I can't think of
how
> much clearer I can make it.  When you (the Insects) are allowed so much
> prominence and public exposure within this sim community, without somebody
> speaking up and reminding everyone that you are nothing but a "gamer" if
you
> hotlap all the time, then new drivers to this sim community begin to
follow
> false leaders.....the entire community suffers since the quality of online
> sim "racing" (notice I said "racing" not online sim "driving") declines.

> 6.  A question for the Insects:  If we could somehow introduce the
ultimate
> reality into sim racing......defined as creating culpability for
hotlapping
> crashes (or any crash).......defined as physical injury and/or cost of
> repair to your race car....how much interest would you continue to have in
> this "gaming activity" you engage in with a racing sim?  This is easy to
do.
> We could put a program on your boot drive that kicks in every time you
crash
> your GPL race car (or any other sim car you drive)....it will
automatically
> shut down your computer.  Upon reboot, you will be required to enter a
> credit card number, and $200 will be charged to your credit card....then
> your computer will boot up back to the desktop and you can go run some
more
> hot laps!  How does that sound?  Not very good, you say?
Well....real-world
> racing has a similar "boot/crash" program.....its just not called the same
> thing, you know?

> 7.  In the face of crashing culpability as stated in number #6 above, if
an
> "insect" continued this hotlapping activity, how long would it take for
> everyone who knew him to call him an idiot!  "Running up thousands and
> thousands of dollars on his credit card so he could lower is PB at Monza
by
> a 10th of a second".......that would not be considered sane and rational
> behavior for any human being.  So....let me ask all the "insects" this
> question:  "Is it the fact that you don't have to pay for all your
> crashes.....is that your argument for saying that what you are doing is
sane
> and rational?"  I just want to make sure I understand your position on
this.
> Because I want to remind you that although you don't have to pay for all
> your crashes......"but we do" when you crash us out of an online race
> because that's the only way you have practiced to race online.....you
> practice crashing all the time, guess what:  You are going to crash all
the
> time!  Duh!  WE ARE NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS ANY LONGER!  Please get
offline,
> go away, stop doing what you are doing....or find another "gaming
> activity"....PLEASE!

> **To all the rest of us....the non-Insects.............

> 1.  Can you guys imagine how good these guys would really be as sim
drivers
> if they spent all that time they now spend learning to crash......on
> learning race strategy, how to drive their cars in control and avoid
> sticking their nose in the wrong place at the wrong time, how to "think
> their way" to the podium and how to work on their setups to achieve car
> stability in even the most "out of shape" situations that every race puts
us
> into at one time or another?  Can you imagine how hard they might be to
beat
> at Monza (for example) if they spent several hundred laps practicing
driving
> completely out of the racing line there (which is where we all find
> ourselves for about 30% of every race we run....at any track)?  Can you
> imagine how good these guys would be with all that practice?  Wow!  Isn't
it
> a shame we don't have these people to race against......that would be
great,
> wouldn't it?

> 2.  Two days ago, a very prominent member of VROC and the GPL online
racing
> community wrote an email to me in response to a question I asked him about
> how he practices in GPL.  His name is "Mac"....I'm sure many of you know
> him.  Here is his response......

>     My goals in a GPL race (league race or pick up race....they are all
the
> same to me....both equally important):

>         1.  Avoid car contact with another competitor at all costs.
>         2.  Finish the race (or in a no-damage race = finish without going
> off track).
>         3.  Practice hard between races so I can make it to the podium
> without violating the goals in #1 and #2 above.

> 3.  If you want to improve online sim racing, stop bitching about it in
> private chat rooms and email, and start speaking up against all this
> prominence on hotlapping in this community.......publicly!  I know you
don't
> like doing that, most of you are conservative guys that shy away from
public
> limelight.  But, heck.....if you don't speak up......you are only hurting
> yourself in the end.  I'm challenging you to end your silence and speak up
> about this issue when ever you have the chance.

> Regards, (except to the Insects)

> Tom Pabst

> "Tom Pabst" <tmpa...@home.com> wrote in message
> news:idjE7.9555$wj5.3531635@news1.rdc1.sfba.home.com...
> > **Rally Trophy Demo Bug Found**

> > For all of you who have become distrustful of your manly-hood and rally
> > driving skills......trying to get from a 2:28-to-2:29 range down into
the
> > 2:22-to-2:23 range where the "aliens" are running.........you've just
been
> > vindicated!  It is unfortunate however, that many of you have already
hung
> > yourself or jumped out of 5th story window of your office building or
> > apartment complex....in total frustration.  May those of you who have
done
> > that already..........."rest in peace!"

> > To those of us who are left on this planet with us..........

> > **Take note:  A bug was found in the RT demo that invalidates any stage
> time
> > much below 2:28 or so.......maybe even hire.  Certainly, any time turned
> in
> > well below that is completely bogus!  Essentially what this means is, if
> you
> > were running your well-driven stage runs at around the 2:28 to 2:29
range
> or
> > so.......that's your real time and you are a very good rally driver (at
> > least in RT you are).  Those times are the same as the 2:22's and 2:23's
> > others were getting, but their computers were reporting those

> Before addressing some specific issues raised below, let me explain that
the
> RT Demo real-time clock, physics-clock "bug" was/is real.  The GPL "bug"
was
> a "bug light" - turned on to attract the "insects."  Some of you might
call
> this a "troll"....I have learned that's a bad word in newsgroups.  Who
> cares.  You can place any labels you want on my efforts to improve the
> quality of online racing....I will not stop this effort as long as
"insects"
> exist in online racing.  The vast majority of drivers in the sim community
> support my effort to eliminate or completely de-emphasize "hotlapping"
> because it ruins online racing as an enjoyable and competitive form of
motor
> racing.  This "majority" simply don't make posts on r.a.s, many of whom
> never even come to this newsgroup.  They are the "silent majority" in this
> online racing community.

> **To the "Insects" who posted below:

> 1.  The rest of this post I will be talking down to you.  I am stating
that
> fact up front so there's no misunderstanding on your part that I do not
> respect you as a sim driver, nor do I respect your ability to drive your
sim
> car at 90-100% max performance and occasionally, pull off a lucky lap in
> which you do not crash - then rush to various "Insect Websites" and post
> your feat!  I wouldn't care what you did with your computer and the sim
> racing software you purchased....if you did it offline and did not join
> online races....therefore your actions and stupidity would not effect me
or
> the majority of sim drivers who simply want to race online in a realistic
> manner.  If all of you would agree to do your "gaming" stuff offline, then
> you will never hear another word from me about this topic.  Can you all do
> that, please?

> 2.  Exceptions to a rule always exist and do not negate the rule.

> 3.  The skills required to drive a race car very fast are not hard to
learn,
> vast numbers of the general population contain reasonable hand-eye
> coordination and with a little instruction they can learn to drive a race
> car, any race car ....very fast.  Every driver in real-world racing at any
> level understands this fact (certainly at the top pro levels of racing)
and
> they also know that the difference between successful winners and the rest
> of the pack....is NOT the fact that the successful drivers contain unique
> driving skills not possessed by every other driver.  That simply does not
> exist in racing....anywhere .....and sim racing is no exception to this
> rule!

> 4.  There is a very small number of real-world drivers in the annals of
> racing history in which I direct you to refer to number #2 above.

> 5.  I will explain what you are doing to hurt sim racing (for at least the
> one millionth time in the last five years):  When you run lap after lap at
> 90-100% max, in search of that illusive fastest ever lap (defined anyway
you
> want to define it), what you do is train your subconscious mind's hand-eye
> coordination and micro-second decision making ability, to "race" at that
> same level.  Since there is no driver ever (anywhere, any time, none...not
> one)......who can maintain 90-100% max performance race driving for more
> than a few laps without crashing or breaking their race car.....your are
> therefore training your self to crash!  Is that clear?  I can't think of
how
> much clearer I can make it.  When you (the Insects) are allowed so much
> prominence and public exposure within this sim community, without somebody
> speaking up and reminding everyone that you are nothing but a "gamer" if
you
> hotlap all the time, then new drivers to this sim community begin to
follow
> false leaders.....the entire community suffers since the quality of online
> sim "racing" (notice I said "racing" not online sim "driving") declines.

> 6.  A question for the Insects:  If we could somehow introduce the
ultimate
> reality into sim racing......defined as creating culpability for
hotlapping
> crashes (or any crash).......defined as physical injury and/or cost of
> repair to your race car....how much interest would you continue to have in
> this "gaming activity" you engage in with a racing sim?  This is easy to
do.
> We could put a program on your boot drive that kicks in every time you
crash
> your GPL race car (or any other sim car you drive)....it will
automatically
> shut down your computer.  Upon reboot, you will be required to enter a
> credit card number, and $200 will be charged to your credit card....then
> your computer will boot up back to the desktop and you can go run some
more
> hot laps!  How does that sound?  Not very good, you say?
Well....real-world
> racing has a similar "boot/crash" program.....its just not called the same
> thing, you know?

> 7.  In the face of crashing culpability as stated in number #6 above, if
an
> "insect" continued this hotlapping activity, how long would it take for
> everyone who knew him to call him an idiot!  "Running up thousands and
> thousands of dollars on his credit card so he could lower is PB at Monza
by
> a 10th of a second".......that would not be considered sane and rational
> behavior for any human being.  So....let me ask all the "insects" this
> question:  "Is it the fact that you don't have to pay for all your
> crashes.....is that your argument for saying that what you are doing is
sane
> and rational?"  I just want to make sure I understand your position on
this.
> Because I want to remind you that although you don't have to pay for all
> your crashes......"but we do" when you crash us out of an online race
> because that's the only way you have practiced to race online.....you
> practice crashing all the time, guess what:  You are going to crash all
the
> time!  Duh!  WE ARE NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS ANY LONGER!  Please get
offline,
> go away, stop doing what you are doing....or find another "gaming
> activity"....PLEASE!

> **To all the rest of us....the non-Insects.............

> 1.  Can you guys imagine how good these guys would really be as sim
drivers
> if they spent all that time they now spend learning to crash......on
> learning race strategy, how to drive their cars in control and avoid
> sticking their nose in the wrong place at the wrong time, how to "think
> their way" to the podium and how to work on their setups to achieve car
> stability in even the most "out of shape" situations that every race puts
us
> into at one time or another?  Can you imagine how hard they might be to
beat
> at Monza (for example) if they spent several hundred laps practicing
driving
> completely out of the racing line there (which is where we all find
> ourselves for about 30% of every race we run....at any track)?  Can you
> imagine how good these guys would be with all that practice?  Wow!  Isn't
it
> a shame we don't have these people to race against......that would be
great,
> wouldn't it?

> 2.  Two days ago, a very prominent member of VROC and the GPL online
racing
> community wrote an email to me in response to a question I asked him about
> how he practices in GPL.  His name is "Mac"....I'm sure many of you know
> him.  Here is his response......

>     My goals in a GPL race (league race or pick up race....they are all
the
> same to me....both equally important):

>         1.  Avoid car contact with another competitor at all costs.
>         2.  Finish the race (or in a no-damage race = finish without going
> off track).
>         3.  Practice hard between races so I can make it to the podium
> without violating the goals in #1 and #2 above.

> 3.  If you want to improve online sim racing, stop bitching about it in
> private chat rooms and email, and start speaking up against all this
> prominence on hotlapping in this community.......publicly!  I know you
don't
> like doing that, most of you are conservative guys that shy away from
public
> limelight.  But, heck.....if you don't speak up......you are only hurting
> yourself in the end.  I'm challenging you to end your silence and speak up
> about this issue when ever you have the chance.

> Regards, (except to the Insects)

> Tom Pabst

> "Tom Pabst" <tmpa...@home.com> wrote in message
> news:idjE7.9555$wj5.3531635@news1.rdc1.sfba.home.com...
> > **Rally Trophy Demo Bug Found**

> > For all of you who have become distrustful of your manly-hood and rally
> > driving skills......trying to get from a 2:28-to-2:29 range down into
the
> > 2:22-to-2:23 range where the "aliens" are running.........you've just
been
> > vindicated!  It is unfortunate however, that many of you have already
hung
> > yourself or jumped out of 5th story window of your office building or
> > apartment complex....in total frustration.  May those of you who have
done
> > that already..........."rest in peace!"

> > To those of us who are left on this planet with us..........

> > **Take note:  A bug was found in the RT demo that invalidates any stage
> time
> > much below 2:28 or so.......maybe even hire.  Certainly, any time turned
> in
> > well below that is completely bogus!  Essentially what this means is, if
> you
> > were running your well-driven stage runs