rec.autos.simulators

by **Jeff Leonar** » Wed, 08 Jan 2003 12:44:56

Hey Everyone!

I stopped by Papy.com and they have a new video with in game shots...looks
pretty nice!

Check it out!

by **Jon** » Wed, 08 Jan 2003 13:18:26

Other then the the multiple animated pit crews I don't see much difference then the 2002 version.
The outward appearance of the way the car moves don't reveal much change in the physics.
I hope I'm wrong. I was viewing the high res version.

by **Jay Beckma** » Wed, 08 Jan 2003 14:07:23

> > Hey Everyone!

> > I stopped by Papy.com and they have a new video with in game
shots...looks
> > pretty nice!

> > Check it out!

> Other then the the multiple animated pit crews I don't see much difference

then the 2002 version.

I noticed:

1) Sun Flare Effect (Sunset and Daylight...The sunset in your face effect
was quite nice, I thought...)
2) Animated JumboTron Screens in the Infiield
3) Backlit Tach at night
4) Better looking infield-side lights at night
5) Pit signs waving over every stall while pitting (that's gonna be
interesting...) with a "war wagon" at each stall (didn't notice any animated
crew members...)
6) You only see about 3/4 of the rear view mirror in the***pit view

But, your main point holds true. The cars still don't look like they are
"carving" their way around the track. They still have a "shape riding on
top of a texture" look to them.

JCB

I too, was viewing the hi-rez version...

by **Mar** » Wed, 08 Jan 2003 20:49:44

> Other then the the multiple animated pit crews I don't see much difference then the 2002 version.
> The outward appearance of the way the car moves don't reveal much change in the physics.
> I hope I'm wrong. I was viewing the high res version.

I'm at work so can't view this yet, but one thing, IMO, that was *not*
wrong with N2K2 was the way the cars looked on the track. Any physics
changes required were pretty subtle AFAIK and I would have thought
watching a replay would give no indication of how this aspect has
changed at all. Picky little replay faults from N2K2 that could do
with fixing to make for an even more convincing viewing experience
would be shadows of cars being cast onto walls rather than through
walls and onto the ground behind (most noticable at Sears and Pocono,
if momory serves) and shadows from trackside objects - bridges,
fencing, etc - being cast onto cars.

Does anyone know if the sun is gonna set on the 600?

Regards,

Mark

by **David G Fishe** » Wed, 08 Jan 2003 21:16:41

> > > Hey Everyone!

> > > I stopped by Papy.com and they have a new video with in game
> shots...looks
> > > pretty nice!

> > > Check it out!

> > Other then the the multiple animated pit crews I don't see much
difference
> then the 2002 version.
> > The outward appearance of the way the car moves don't reveal much change
> in the physics.
> > I hope I'm wrong. I was viewing the high res version.

> I noticed:

> 1) Sun Flare Effect (Sunset and Daylight...The sunset in your face effect
> was quite nice, I thought...)

Done years ago in other sims.

Dirt build up on windshield and <gasp> more than one car shape were done
years ago in other sims.

Can't wait for this one. Groundbreaking stuff.

David G Fisher

- Show quoted text -

by **Schoone** » Wed, 08 Jan 2003 21:22:53

It is a minor upgrade to 2002. Don't expect mind numbing changes. I would
sooner see a few small changes then a total redo that ruins it. I give papy
credit for doing these small updates. It always too easy in software to try
and shoot for the moon and fall short.
These are many of the same comments we had when NR2002 was getting set to
come out, it was only an update and no one would buy it. In the end it
turned out to be a great update. not 100% perfect but a step forward.

> > > > Hey Everyone!

> > > > I stopped by Papy.com and they have a new video with in game
> > shots...looks
> > > > pretty nice!

> > > > Check it out!

> > > Other then the the multiple animated pit crews I don't see much
> difference
> > then the 2002 version.
> > > The outward appearance of the way the car moves don't reveal much
change
> > in the physics.
> > > I hope I'm wrong. I was viewing the high res version.

> > I noticed:

> > 1) Sun Flare Effect (Sunset and Daylight...The sunset in your face
effect
> > was quite nice, I thought...)

> Done years ago in other sims.

> > 2) Animated JumboTron Screens in the Infiield

> Done years ago in other sims.

> Dirt build up on windshield and <gasp> more than one car shape were done
> years ago in other sims.

> Can't wait for this one. Groundbreaking stuff.

> David G Fisher

> > 3) Backlit Tach at night
> > 4) Better looking infield-side lights at night
> > 5) Pit signs waving over every stall while pitting (that's gonna be
> > interesting...) with a "war wagon" at each stall (didn't notice any
> animated
> > crew members...)
> > 6) You only see about 3/4 of the rear view mirror in the***pit view

> > But, your main point holds true. The cars still don't look like they
are
> > "carving" their way around the track. They still have a "shape riding
on
> > top of a texture" look to them.

> > JCB

> > I too, was viewing the hi-rez version...

by **Goy Larse** » Wed, 08 Jan 2003 21:25:39

Geez Dave, guess it's not "GPL" you're allergic to, it's "Papy" :-)

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy
"goyl at nettx dot no"

"The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/

"A man is only as old as the woman he feels"
--Groucho Marx--

by **John Simmon** » Wed, 08 Jan 2003 21:32:22

The only problem with the jumbotron being animated is that it's
canned animation instead of what's actually happening on the track at
the time. I hope there's an option for turning off the jumbotron
animation.

I'm not expecting ground-breaking stuff, but I am expecting to at
least see improvements in what we already have. The only thing they
put in (visible from the movie) that I wanted was the pitboards over
the wall for all cars.

I want to see all-session enforcement of pit road speeds and pit
entry/exit rules and a different way to handle wall-riders (flatten
tires, damage sheet metal, affect aero, as well as acceptable speed
reduction due to friction), and a way to remove restrictor plates and
pit road speed limits.

Of course, we won't know for sure what they put in until it's
released. I think all of these things could be handled in a patch,
but I don't see too much likelihgood that we'll see more than one or
*maybe* two offical patches to the game, and they probably won't do
much more than fix bugs.

by **John Simmon** » Wed, 08 Jan 2003 21:34:12

> I'm at work so can't view this yet, but one thing, IMO, that was *not*
> wrong with N2K2 was the way the cars looked on the track. Any physics
> changes required were pretty subtle AFAIK and I would have thought
> watching a replay would give no indication of how this aspect has
> changed at all. Picky little replay faults from N2K2 that could do
> with fixing to make for an even more convincing viewing experience
> would be shadows of cars being cast onto walls rather than through
> walls and onto the ground behind (most noticable at Sears and Pocono,
> if momory serves) and shadows from trackside objects - bridges,
> fencing, etc - being cast onto cars.

> Does anyone know if the sun is gonna set on the 600?

I heard that the position of the sun will change during the race, and
that dynamic shadows will be cast from trackside objects (and other
cars on the track).

by **Schoone** » Wed, 08 Jan 2003 21:36:10

I think one of the reasons they went with smaller changes is because of the
patching/support issues. IMHO Papy wants to make sure they put a good solid
title for the hard core sim crowd, and not be too worried about the mass
market flashy stuff. Papy has rarely disappointed us, maybe not as big of
steps as we want but usually forward.

> >> 2) Animated JumboTron Screens in the Infiield

> The only problem with the jumbotron being animated is that it's
> canned animation instead of what's actually happening on the track at
> the time. I hope there's an option for turning off the jumbotron
> animation.

> > Can't wait for this one. Groundbreaking stuff.

> I'm not expecting ground-breaking stuff, but I am expecting to at
> least see improvements in what we already have. The only thing they
> put in (visible from the movie) that I wanted was the pitboards over
> the wall for all cars.

> I want to see all-session enforcement of pit road speeds and pit
> entry/exit rules and a different way to handle wall-riders (flatten
> tires, damage sheet metal, affect aero, as well as acceptable speed
> reduction due to friction), and a way to remove restrictor plates and
> pit road speed limits.

> Of course, we won't know for sure what they put in until it's
> released. I think all of these things could be handled in a patch,
> but I don't see too much likelihgood that we'll see more than one or
> *maybe* two offical patches to the game, and they probably won't do
> much more than fix bugs.

by **John Pancoas** » Wed, 08 Jan 2003 23:40:27

With it's poor drafting model, worse damage model than N1, loss of server
boss functions, STILL lack of two raceable lines on most tracks, etc. I'd
have to say N2k wasn't a step forward. Still a fun sim, but...........

As far as N2003, if the above isn't addressed a LOT, it might not be a
step forward either, except in eye candy(big deal).

John

> It is a minor upgrade to 2002. Don't expect mind numbing changes. I
would
> sooner see a few small changes then a total redo that ruins it. I give
papy
> credit for doing these small updates. It always too easy in software to
try
> and shoot for the moon and fall short.
> These are many of the same comments we had when NR2002 was getting set to
> come out, it was only an update and no one would buy it. In the end it
> turned out to be a great update. not 100% perfect but a step forward.

> > > > > Hey Everyone!

> > > > > I stopped by Papy.com and they have a new video with in game
> > > shots...looks
> > > > > pretty nice!

> > > > > Check it out!

> > > > Other then the the multiple animated pit crews I don't see much
> > difference
> > > then the 2002 version.
> > > > The outward appearance of the way the car moves don't reveal much
> change
> > > in the physics.
> > > > I hope I'm wrong. I was viewing the high res version.

> > > I noticed:

> > > 1) Sun Flare Effect (Sunset and Daylight...The sunset in your face
> effect
> > > was quite nice, I thought...)

> > Done years ago in other sims.

> > > 2) Animated JumboTron Screens in the Infiield

> > Done years ago in other sims.

> > Dirt build up on windshield and <gasp> more than one car shape were done
> > years ago in other sims.

> > Can't wait for this one. Groundbreaking stuff.

> > David G Fisher

> > > 3) Backlit Tach at night
> > > 4) Better looking infield-side lights at night
> > > 5) Pit signs waving over every stall while pitting (that's gonna be
> > > interesting...) with a "war wagon" at each stall (didn't notice any
> > animated
> > > crew members...)
> > > 6) You only see about 3/4 of the rear view mirror in the***pit view

> > > But, your main point holds true. The cars still don't look like they
> are
> > > "carving" their way around the track. They still have a "shape riding
> on
> > > top of a texture" look to them.

> > > JCB

> > > I too, was viewing the hi-rez version...

by **Doug Elliso** » Wed, 08 Jan 2003 23:47:21

: I heard that the position of the sun will change during the race, and
: that dynamic shadows will be cast from trackside objects (and other
: cars on the track).

All very nice - but will they have weather that can change? I've not seen
the weather stay at 70 degrees for 3 hours before

Doug

by **Schoone** » Wed, 08 Jan 2003 23:59:00

Overall it may not be perfect but it's the best we have along with GPL.
As lacking as it is, it could be much worse, just ask EA.

> With it's poor drafting model, worse damage model than N1, loss of
server
> boss functions, STILL lack of two raceable lines on most tracks, etc. I'd
> have to say N2k wasn't a step forward. Still a fun sim, but...........

> As far as N2003, if the above isn't addressed a LOT, it might not be a
> step forward either, except in eye candy(big deal).

> John

> > It is a minor upgrade to 2002. Don't expect mind numbing changes. I
> would
> > sooner see a few small changes then a total redo that ruins it. I give
> papy
> > credit for doing these small updates. It always too easy in software to
> try
> > and shoot for the moon and fall short.
> > These are many of the same comments we had when NR2002 was getting set
to
> > come out, it was only an update and no one would buy it. In the end it
> > turned out to be a great update. not 100% perfect but a step forward.

> > > > > > Hey Everyone!

> > > > > > I stopped by Papy.com and they have a new video with in game
> > > > shots...looks
> > > > > > pretty nice!

> > > > > > Check it out!

> > > > > Other then the the multiple animated pit crews I don't see much
> > > difference
> > > > then the 2002 version.
> > > > > The outward appearance of the way the car moves don't reveal much
> > change
> > > > in the physics.
> > > > > I hope I'm wrong. I was viewing the high res version.

> > > > I noticed:

> > > > 1) Sun Flare Effect (Sunset and Daylight...The sunset in your face
> > effect
> > > > was quite nice, I thought...)

> > > Done years ago in other sims.

> > > > 2) Animated JumboTron Screens in the Infiield

> > > Done years ago in other sims.

> > > Dirt build up on windshield and <gasp> more than one car shape were
done
> > > years ago in other sims.

> > > Can't wait for this one. Groundbreaking stuff.

> > > David G Fisher

> > > > 3) Backlit Tach at night
> > > > 4) Better looking infield-side lights at night
> > > > 5) Pit signs waving over every stall while pitting (that's gonna be
> > > > interesting...) with a "war wagon" at each stall (didn't notice any
> > > animated
> > > > crew members...)
> > > > 6) You only see about 3/4 of the rear view mirror in the***pit
view

> > > > But, your main point holds true. The cars still don't look like
they
> > are
> > > > "carving" their way around the track. They still have a "shape
riding
> > on
> > > > top of a texture" look to them.

> > > > JCB

> > > > I too, was viewing the hi-rez version...

by **John Pancoas** » Thu, 09 Jan 2003 00:20:51

That's true, but that's part of the "problem"; it's the only choice we
have. I'm a big believer in choices <g> Have to admit, sometimes it's
amazing though, how Papy's competitors keep missing the ball. Not like
it's a secret what's needed, how to do things.
Though I agree with Dave; a lot of the stuff proposed for N2003 has been
done years ago, even by EA.

John

> Overall it may not be perfect but it's the best we have along with GPL.
> As lacking as it is, it could be much worse, just ask EA.

> > With it's poor drafting model, worse damage model than N1, loss of
> server
> > boss functions, STILL lack of two raceable lines on most tracks, etc.
I'd
> > have to say N2k wasn't a step forward. Still a fun sim, but...........

> > As far as N2003, if the above isn't addressed a LOT, it might not be a
> > step forward either, except in eye candy(big deal).

> > John

> > > It is a minor upgrade to 2002. Don't expect mind numbing changes. I
> > would
> > > sooner see a few small changes then a total redo that ruins it. I
give
> > papy
> > > credit for doing these small updates. It always too easy in software
to
> > try
> > > and shoot for the moon and fall short.
> > > These are many of the same comments we had when NR2002 was getting set
> to
> > > come out, it was only an update and no one would buy it. In the end
it
> > > turned out to be a great update. not 100% perfect but a step forward.

> > > > > > > Hey Everyone!

> > > > > > > I stopped by Papy.com and they have a new video with in game
> > > > > shots...looks
> > > > > > > pretty nice!

> > > > > > > Check it out!

> > > > > > Other then the the multiple animated pit crews I don't see much
> > > > difference
> > > > > then the 2002 version.
> > > > > > The outward appearance of the way the car moves don't reveal
much
> > > change
> > > > > in the physics.
> > > > > > I hope I'm wrong. I was viewing the high res version.

> > > > > I noticed:

> > > > > 1) Sun Flare Effect (Sunset and Daylight...The sunset in your face
> > > effect
> > > > > was quite nice, I thought...)

> > > > Done years ago in other sims.

> > > > > 2) Animated JumboTron Screens in the Infiield

> > > > Done years ago in other sims.

> > > > Dirt build up on windshield and <gasp> more than one car shape were
> done
> > > > years ago in other sims.

> > > > Can't wait for this one. Groundbreaking stuff.

> > > > David G Fisher

> > > > > 3) Backlit Tach at night
> > > > > 4) Better looking infield-side lights at night
> > > > > 5) Pit signs waving over every stall while pitting (that's gonna
be
> > > > > interesting...) with a "war wagon" at each stall (didn't notice
any
> > > > animated
> > > > > crew members...)
> > > > > 6) You only see about 3/4 of the rear view mirror in the***pit
> view

> > > > > But, your main point holds true. The cars still don't look like
> they
> > > are
> > > > > "carving" their way around the track. They still have a "shape
> riding
> > > on
> > > > > top of a texture" look to them.

> > > > > JCB

> > > > > I too, was viewing the hi-rez version...

by **Schoone** » Thu, 09 Jan 2003 00:23:34

I agree as well. AS I have said many times the sim market is just too small
a niche. Publishers try to give some of what we want but need to do the
splashy stuff to get enough sales. IF the market was big enough Racing
Legends would be a reality not a dream but as is no one will put enough
money behind such a product as the payoff is too small.

> That's true, but that's part of the "problem"; it's the only choice we
> have. I'm a big believer in choices <g> Have to admit, sometimes it's
> amazing though, how Papy's competitors keep missing the ball. Not like
> it's a secret what's needed, how to do things.
> Though I agree with Dave; a lot of the stuff proposed for N2003 has been
> done years ago, even by EA.

> John

> > Overall it may not be perfect but it's the best we have along with GPL.
> > As lacking as it is, it could be much worse, just ask EA.

> > > With it's poor drafting model, worse damage model than N1, loss of
> > server
> > > boss functions, STILL lack of two raceable lines on most tracks, etc.
> I'd
> > > have to say N2k wasn't a step forward. Still a fun sim,
but...........

> > > As far as N2003, if the above isn't addressed a LOT, it might not be
a
> > > step forward either, except in eye candy(big deal).

> > > John

> > > > It is a minor upgrade to 2002. Don't expect mind numbing changes.
I
> > > would
> > > > sooner see a few small changes then a total redo that ruins it. I
> give
> > > papy
> > > > credit for doing these small updates. It always too easy in
software
> to
> > > try
> > > > and shoot for the moon and fall short.
> > > > These are many of the same comments we had when NR2002 was getting
set
> > to
> > > > come out, it was only an update and no one would buy it. In the end
> it
> > > > turned out to be a great update. not 100% perfect but a step
forward.

> > > > > > > > Hey Everyone!

> > > > > > > > I stopped by Papy.com and they have a new video with in game
> > > > > > shots...looks
> > > > > > > > pretty nice!

> > > > > > > > Check it out!

> > > > > > > Other then the the multiple animated pit crews I don't see
much
> > > > > difference
> > > > > > then the 2002 version.
> > > > > > > The outward appearance of the way the car moves don't reveal
> much
> > > > change
> > > > > > in the physics.
> > > > > > > I hope I'm wrong. I was viewing the high res version.

> > > > > > I noticed:

> > > > > > 1) Sun Flare Effect (Sunset and Daylight...The sunset in your
face
> > > > effect
> > > > > > was quite nice, I thought...)

> > > > > Done years ago in other sims.

> > > > > > 2) Animated JumboTron Screens in the Infiield

> > > > > Done years ago in other sims.

> > > > > Dirt build up on windshield and <gasp> more than one car shape
were
> > done
> > > > > years ago in other sims.

> > > > > Can't wait for this one. Groundbreaking stuff.

> > > > > David G Fisher

> > > > > > 3) Backlit Tach at night
> > > > > > 4) Better looking infield-side lights at night
> > > > > > 5) Pit signs waving over every stall while pitting (that's gonna
> be
> > > > > > interesting...) with a "war wagon" at each stall (didn't notice
> any
> > > > > animated
> > > > > > crew members...)
> > > > > > 6) You only see about 3/4 of the rear view mirror in the***pit
> > view

> > > > > > But, your main point holds true. The cars still don't look like
> > they
> > > > are
> > > > > > "carving" their way around the track. They still have a "shape
> > riding
> > > > on
> > > > > > top of a texture" look to them.

> > > > > > JCB

> > > > > > I too, was viewing the hi-rez version...

rec.autos.simulators

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