rec.autos.simulators

I've got mixed reviews about this thing, but before I write anything up for
you guys...there's a problem that needs to be solved.

Okay, here's the skinny. I ran a online race at Las Vegas using Thunder, and
my best time was 37.4. Obviously, that doesn't cut the mustard. In fact, I
was the slowest bastard on the track.

So I loaded up NR2002 and ran a few laps at the same place. My time there
was 34.8.

Here I am, trying to figure out the problem. I can forsee a few variables
causing me to be quicker on one and not the other. They are:

- NT2003 Vegas track modelling is very different than Papy's (let's not
discuss some other track differences. lol). Thus, my times are going to be
vastly different.

- NT2003 Physics are goofier than hell. Enough said.

- NT2003 Default setups exhibit major understeer. This one seems likely.

- NT2003 Controller rates, for lack of a better word, suck. This also
appears to be a likely candidate.

Keep in mind that I'm still using a joystick. All aides for NT2003 are off,
while Papy has forced me to have on Anti-Lock Brakes and Traction Control.
So I'm sure without those two on, I'd be able to pick up at least half a
second in the Papy sim.

Could anyone out there give me some advice? What has your experience been at
racing Las Vegas in Thunder 2003?

-Will

  I haven't raced Thunder, but I have used several of the tracks for the
CART mod and we almost always have to raise the car ride height to max.  
You may be draggin in thunder...listen for scraping or check telemetry to
see if you are on the deck.
dave henrie

I can confirm that the car isn't bottoming out anywhere on the track.

In fact, I took my study a little farther than I probably should've. I wrote
down the Papy <fast> setup for Las Vegas, then made a pretty darn close
approximation of it in Thunder. I've got some good news and some bads news.
The good news is, my time went from 37.4 down to 35.4. The bad news is that
I had to move every bit of wedge left to get that time. And, it's /still/
tight.

It's as if I'm out there racing the Big Brown Truck ($1 to UPS). I kid you
not, it's like driving something that horrid. It seems like there's just too
much tire grip.

I've also fiddled with my controller rates a bit, and it (the understeer)
hasn't gotten any better. I'm led to believe that either (a), the physics
and/or tire model is extremely FUBAR'ed, (b), I'm doing something terribly
wrong with my newest setup, or (c), the track modelling is causing me
enormous problems in this case.

-Will

Apparently, I didn't fiddle enough with the controller settings. I was
playing around with the X-axis sensitivity, dead zones and a magic thing
called "speed sensitivity". Lo and behold, I found the right sequence
(involving speed sensitivity) and now have complete control of the virtual
car.

Finally, I'll be able to get into the meat of the software.

-Will

The physics in NT2003 are on equal or higher plane than the current N2003.
I run both equally well and while NT's multiplayer and tracks blow, the
physics are solid.

- Turn off all the freaking driver aids (except auto clutch if you don't
have a clutch pedal).  If you are using a wheel and pedals you don't need
any of them.
- Set all deadzones to 0
- Set all axis sensitivities to 50%
- Set Speed Sensitivity to the minimum (10% in Thunder is the same as 0% in
the F1 games - I checked the value in the player file)
- If you don't like the resulting steering sensitivity, adjust the lock
angle in the vehicle setup, don't fool around with the control
sensitivities.
- Force feedback strength has to be set to a negative value for most common
controllers.  It should be real obvious if you have it the wrong way.
- Go into your Save folder, under your playername, and open the .plr file
with a text editor.  Under "Driving Aids" set "Half Rate" to 0.  Trust me,
you want this.  ;o)
- Optional - I noticed in the demo controller menu there was no mapping for
look left and look right.  These functions are present in the player file
and you can use them, although when you do you will find that ISI didn't
bother to model the full***pit! At least it's not there in the demo.  If
you have one of ISI's F1 games you can copy the key values for look left and
look right from the F1 player file to the Thunder player file.  I tried it,
it works.

Have fun,
Hal

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- http://ymenard.cjb.net/
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...

'Fraid not, man. I mean I tried the demo out back before it's release,
but F1 sims just aren't up my alley. I guess I'm a victim to ISI's
creation in regards to getting things set just right. :)

<SNIPPED A LOT OF EXCELLENT ADVICE>

About them not modelling the entire***pit, I had my suspicions when I
noticed smoke barelling over the "dash" itself. I've already got that
written down for my review, though I don't have a big problem with not
having a "3D"***pit. Just for the record, I did just fine in NASCAR
Racing 2 and it's 2D***pit! haha ;)

Now that you've brought up the L/R views, could you perhaps clue me in
on what those key values are? Or maybe a url that has already discussed
it? As mentioned above, I don't own F1 2002 so I'm out of the loop on
this one.

BTW, thank you for posting those great tips. It's nice to know that
it'll be stored at Google for enternity, should I or anyone else need to
use them as a reference. If I had that advice days ago, I would've saved
myself a ton of trouble. :)

-Will

Control - Look Left="(1, 44)"
Control - Look Right="(1, 45)"

The first number is the controller number (1st controller is 0, 2nd
controller is 1) and the second number is the button number, which will be
different for each controller type.  Those lines are already in your Thunder
player file but they are not assigned to anything useful.  What you could do
is assign the two buttons to some other function, like brake bias, then look
in the player file to see what the numbers are, and then manually put those
numbers into the above lines.  Of course also take them out of the "brake
bias" lines or you will get some undesired behavior - the engine does not
prevent you from assigning keys to multiple functions and will happily do
everything you assigned the keys to simultaneously.