rec.autos.simulators

Nascar 2003 New Video online

Stev

Nascar 2003 New Video online

by Stev » Thu, 09 Jan 2003 01:46:42

Yes, temp and wind will change and the flags will move differently depending on wind direction.

--

Steve

"You'll have to speak up, I'm wearing a towel"


> All very nice - but will they have weather that can change? I've not seen
> the weather stay at 70 degrees for 3 hours before

> Doug

Luke Phillip

Nascar 2003 New Video online

by Luke Phillip » Thu, 09 Jan 2003 02:04:53

Deja Vu anyone? To me, especially compared to the way cars move in F1 2001/2
and the way the AI cars move in GPL/NASCAR1-2002, N2003 looks far better
compared. It may not be perfect, but then again it doesnt need a complete
rework, like almost any other game, its sucsessor is more than often a
graphical/small gameplay updates and seeing it had a MAJOR overhaul going
into N4 then a major enough one in N2002 what more do you want?

Luke
-=87=-


Tony Kelle

Nascar 2003 New Video online

by Tony Kelle » Thu, 09 Jan 2003 03:48:51


 Just out of curiosity.....how much programming time, and cpu time would it
take to model a dynamic track surface.......this is basically what everyone
is asking when they ask for two raceable lines. you have to model variable
banking within the same turn, variable grip across the racing surface, and
numerous other things I'm probably forgetting to mention. As far as drafting
goes, NASCAR WC cars ARE a poor drafting model. All you hear week in, and
week out for 36 races is "My car was REAL tight in traffic" "With this aero
package we have, you just cant pass" Yet when they give us that in a "game"
(or sim) we cry cause we cant lap the fields any more, let alone pass the
guy in front of us. I agree 02 was far from perfect, (I actually liked
driving N4 better. )but its still far and away the best simulation of a NWC
series on the market. I'll be in line to buy 03 when it hits the shelves as
well. Until someone comes up with something better, I'll race it, and be
glad we have something better than EA's NASCAR XXXX.

 Just remember no matter how accurate it is, you'll never feel g forces on
your office chair, so you'll never know for sure just how accurate it really
is.

TK

David G Fishe

Nascar 2003 New Video online

by David G Fishe » Thu, 09 Jan 2003 05:33:47



> Geez Dave, guess it's not "GPL" you're allergic to, it's "Papy" :-)

:-)

GPL is fine, it's some of it's fans I'm allergic to.

I only missed one RASCAR race, so I certainly appreciate N2002. As John and
John have pointed out, it has some fairly serious weak points that I doubt
are going to be addressed.

Things like a weak damage model and cars flipping over when bumped at 20 mph
need to be fixed.

David G Fisher

Steve Blankenshi

Nascar 2003 New Video online

by Steve Blankenshi » Thu, 09 Jan 2003 06:04:53

Agreed - the closer they get, the less they have to do.  But since Papy
folks themselves have claimed it's the biggest physics model update since
the jump to GPL, I'd be quite interested in getting my paws on this one even
with NO other changes.

SB


> Deja Vu anyone? To me, especially compared to the way cars move in F1
2001/2
> and the way the AI cars move in GPL/NASCAR1-2002, N2003 looks far better
> compared. It may not be perfect, but then again it doesnt need a complete
> rework, like almost any other game, its sucsessor is more than often a
> graphical/small gameplay updates and seeing it had a MAJOR overhaul going
> into N4 then a major enough one in N2002 what more do you want?

> Luke
> -=87=-



> > Hey Everyone!

> > I stopped by Papy.com and they have a new video with in game
shots...looks
> > pretty nice!

> > Check it out!

John Simmon

Nascar 2003 New Video online

by John Simmon » Thu, 09 Jan 2003 07:45:15



The flipping at 20mph a problem with the physics model - the problem
there is with collision detection when combined with online
connection stability.  Think about how hard it is to get flipped in
an offline race under the same circumstances - almost impossible
comes to mind.

Schoone

Nascar 2003 New Video online

by Schoone » Thu, 09 Jan 2003 07:46:55

Yes I think it relates to the online code.  Although it appears to be a
20mph crash I am not sure if all the velocity data is transferred and thus
it seems to assume any collision is bad.




> > Things like a weak damage model and cars flipping over when bumped at 20
mph
> > need to be fixed.

> The flipping at 20mph a problem with the physics model - the problem
> there is with collision detection when combined with online
> connection stability.  Think about how hard it is to get flipped in
> an offline race under the same circumstances - almost impossible
> comes to mind.

Marc Collin

Nascar 2003 New Video online

by Marc Collin » Thu, 09 Jan 2003 08:59:55

Well, the one and only thing I really cared about improving at Tally--those
damned too-often repeating pattern tar strips--still seem to be in there :(

Marc


Haqsa

Nascar 2003 New Video online

by Haqsa » Thu, 09 Jan 2003 09:05:11

Just my opinion but I don't think that is the issue.  If you think about it,
in real life the problem with getting the outside line to work is mostly
just getting the marbles off of it.  AFAIK no current sim models marbles
anyway, even statically.  IOW the grip is the same all the way across the
track.  That should be ideal for allowing multiple lines.  Also I don't
think the banking varies across the track width IRL either.  Again, all it
takes IRL is to clean off the marbles and get the outside to be as grippy as
the inside, and it should work.  The problem with NR 2002, I don't know
exactly what it is, but I think it is one or more of the following:

- Physics still not quite right, particularly tire model.
- People don't know how to drive the outside line (not directed at you
specifically, but maybe it is more difficult than people realize.  For
example I noticed most real life drivers when running outside still enter
and exit along the middle line).
- On speedways people won't run with you on the outside line, and if you are
out of the draft you are out of the race.
- The outside line only works on speedways IRL so it shouldn't be expected
to work on short tracks.


Schoone

Nascar 2003 New Video online

by Schoone » Thu, 09 Jan 2003 09:15:57

- People don't know how to drive the outside line (not directed at you
specifically, but maybe it is more difficult than people realize.  For
example I noticed most real life drivers when running outside still enter
and exit along the middle line).
- On speedways people won't run with you on the outside line, and if you are
out of the draft you are out of the race.

Couldn't agree more.  We had this issue in our league for a while and now we
run 2 wide all the time.  Just takes learning how to do it and having a few
cars to help in that line.


> Just my opinion but I don't think that is the issue.  If you think about
it,
> in real life the problem with getting the outside line to work is mostly
> just getting the marbles off of it.  AFAIK no current sim models marbles
> anyway, even statically.  IOW the grip is the same all the way across the
> track.  That should be ideal for allowing multiple lines.  Also I don't
> think the banking varies across the track width IRL either.  Again, all it
> takes IRL is to clean off the marbles and get the outside to be as grippy
as
> the inside, and it should work.  The problem with NR 2002, I don't know
> exactly what it is, but I think it is one or more of the following:

> - Physics still not quite right, particularly tire model.
> - People don't know how to drive the outside line (not directed at you
> specifically, but maybe it is more difficult than people realize.  For
> example I noticed most real life drivers when running outside still enter
> and exit along the middle line).
> - On speedways people won't run with you on the outside line, and if you
are
> out of the draft you are out of the race.
> - The outside line only works on speedways IRL so it shouldn't be expected
> to work on short tracks.



> >  Just out of curiosity.....how much programming time, and cpu time would
> it
> > take to model a dynamic track surface.......this is basically what
> everyone
> > is asking when they ask for two raceable lines. you have to model
variable
> > banking within the same turn, variable grip across the racing surface,
and
> > numerous other things I'm probably forgetting to mention.

Tim Mise

Nascar 2003 New Video online

by Tim Mise » Thu, 09 Jan 2003 09:24:02

Shoot, I see flips quite often at Martinsville in offline races.  A pileup
in a turn I see the car that gets flipped by a 20mph contact is usually just
the player's car, the AI cars don't seem to have as many of those low speed
flips if my memory serves.

-Tim




> > Things like a weak damage model and cars flipping over when bumped at 20
mph
> > need to be fixed.

> The flipping at 20mph a problem with the physics model - the problem
> there is with collision detection when combined with online
> connection stability.  Think about how hard it is to get flipped in
> an offline race under the same circumstances - almost impossible
> comes to mind.

Schoone

Nascar 2003 New Video online

by Schoone » Thu, 09 Jan 2003 09:24:04

Well I seen the 28 car flip up on pit wall in a slow speed crash one year at
Martinsville in Winston Cup event.  Doesn't take that much to get them to
flip if they hit right, but I agree the Papy model is a bit off.  Just more
reason not to be hitting each other.


> Shoot, I see flips quite often at Martinsville in offline races.  A pileup
> in a turn I see the car that gets flipped by a 20mph contact is usually
just
> the player's car, the AI cars don't seem to have as many of those low
speed
> flips if my memory serves.

> -Tim





> > > Things like a weak damage model and cars flipping over when bumped at
20
> mph
> > > need to be fixed.

> > The flipping at 20mph a problem with the physics model - the problem
> > there is with collision detection when combined with online
> > connection stability.  Think about how hard it is to get flipped in
> > an offline race under the same circumstances - almost impossible
> > comes to mind.

Tim Mise

Nascar 2003 New Video online

by Tim Mise » Thu, 09 Jan 2003 09:28:15

It would have been nice to see a bit more variety of features such as spins,
collisions, short tracks, road coarses, etc.

Also, I sure hope they fix the AI to have only lead lap cars at the front of
the pack after a restart near the end of the race.  A yellow with 10 laps to
go for example, all lapped cars are supposed to go to the end of the line in
single file restarts.  IMO, that is the most annoying oversight with the NR
series.

-Tim


John Pancoa

Nascar 2003 New Video online

by John Pancoa » Thu, 09 Jan 2003 09:37:40




> >   With it's poor drafting model, worse damage model than N1, loss of
>  server
> > boss functions, STILL lack of two raceable lines on most tracks, etc. I'd
> > have to say N2k wasn't a step forward.  Still a fun sim, but...........

> >   As far as N2003, if the above isn't addressed a LOT, it might not be a
> > step forward either, except in eye candy(big deal).

>  Just out of curiosity.....how much programming time, and cpu time would it
> take to model a dynamic track surface.......this is basically what everyone
> is asking when they ask for two raceable lines. you have to model variable
> banking within the same turn, variable grip across the racing surface, and
> numerous other things I'm probably forgetting to mention. As far as drafting
> goes, NASCAR WC cars ARE a poor drafting model. All you hear week in, and
> week out for 36 races is "My car was REAL tight in traffic" "With this aero
> package we have, you just cant pass" Yet when they give us that in a "game"
> (or sim) we cry cause we cant lap the fields any more, let alone pass the
> guy in front of us. I agree 02 was far from perfect, (I actually liked
> driving N4 better. )but its still far and away the best simulation of a NWC
> series on the market. I'll be in line to buy 03 when it hits the shelves as
> well. Until someone comes up with something better, I'll race it, and be
> glad we have something better than EA's NASCAR XXXX.

>  Just remember no matter how accurate it is, you'll never feel g forces on
> your office chair, so you'll never know for sure just how accurate it really
> is.

> TK

  Two lines can't be to difficult; Heat and even Nascar
Revolution(four years ago), had it.....as well as actual racing.

  As far as the drafting model, you're missing the point completely.
It's to strong, not to weak, as you think I'm implying.

John

John Pancoas

Nascar 2003 New Video online

by John Pancoas » Thu, 09 Jan 2003 10:58:25

  It'll work on the SS's with help, but not anywhere else where it should,
which is also most of the other tracks irl.  Personally, I think it's poor
track representation too.

  Other sims, especially Heat, had better(the best imo), track
representations than any Nx title.

John


> Just my opinion but I don't think that is the issue.  If you think about
it,
> in real life the problem with getting the outside line to work is mostly
> just getting the marbles off of it.  AFAIK no current sim models marbles
> anyway, even statically.  IOW the grip is the same all the way across the
> track.  That should be ideal for allowing multiple lines.  Also I don't
> think the banking varies across the track width IRL either.  Again, all it
> takes IRL is to clean off the marbles and get the outside to be as grippy
as
> the inside, and it should work.  The problem with NR 2002, I don't know
> exactly what it is, but I think it is one or more of the following:

> - Physics still not quite right, particularly tire model.
> - People don't know how to drive the outside line (not directed at you
> specifically, but maybe it is more difficult than people realize.  For
> example I noticed most real life drivers when running outside still enter
> and exit along the middle line).
> - On speedways people won't run with you on the outside line, and if you
are
> out of the draft you are out of the race.
> - The outside line only works on speedways IRL so it shouldn't be expected
> to work on short tracks.



> >  Just out of curiosity.....how much programming time, and cpu time would
> it
> > take to model a dynamic track surface.......this is basically what
> everyone
> > is asking when they ask for two raceable lines. you have to model
variable
> > banking within the same turn, variable grip across the racing surface,
and
> > numerous other things I'm probably forgetting to mention.


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