rec.autos.simulators

by **Joe6** » Sun, 02 Feb 2003 07:57:54

>Don't be ridiculous. MS makes Wondows, they have various ***
>hardware products avaialble for the PC too. Given that, why the hell
>would they stop making games for Windows?

Money.

There's way more money in console games, especially for the
console-maker. Microsoft knows that they need exclusive, marquee
titles for the XBox to compete with Sony.

This is not theory, it's how they already operate. Halo was to be a
Mac and PC game. Microsoft bought Bungie so that they could have Halo
exclusive to XBox.

The paid $400 million for Rare for the same reason. Rumors are they're
snooping around Valve for another exclusive big name game (Half Life).

It would, in fact, be unprecendented and illogical for them to buy
Papy for any reason *but* for another XBox exclusive.

by **Goy Larse** » Sun, 02 Feb 2003 08:36:54

> It would, in fact, be unprecendented and illogical for them to buy
> Papy for any reason *but* for another XBox exclusive.

Why ?

Papy isn't a "name" to the general *** audience, it's not like if a
guy who has briefly tried a couple of Arcade racers on his XboX would go
all ga ga if he saw the Papy name on a driving title, put the name Geoff
Crammond on there and there's a least a chance he knows the name if has
owned a PC in the past or at least browsed through the PC games section

In most markets of the world, Papy's name and rep means absolutely
nothing, to me the only reason for acquiring Papy would be for their
knowledge and skills, a lot which would be wasted on a console unless
that kind of cross platform programming is really easy to do.....

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy

http://www.racesimcentral.net/

"A man is only as old as the woman he feels........"
--Groucho Marx--

by **Dave Boyl** » Sun, 02 Feb 2003 09:07:31

Actually, I'm thinking that the only real reason to acquire Papyrus is
because it comes with Sierra and Blizzard, almost as an afterthought. I
imagine Microsoft has done extensive research as to what each division does
and it's potential value, so I'm sure they know everything there is to know
about Papyrus. But I doubt their plans for Papyrus are more than just a drop
in the bucket in the grand scheme of things.

From what I understand, you need completely different programmers for each
platform. Which is why some games can be vastly different on different
platforms. If what I've read is true, Papyrus has already hired console
teams. I've never read anything as to whether they still have a full PC dev
team intact or not.

db

by **Eldre** » Sun, 02 Feb 2003 10:09:03

>In other words, MS does not care about making good sims. Just
>money-making ones; and there's a profound difference - more Road Rash,
>anyone?

I thought Road Rash was quite enjoyable for its time...

Eldred
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by **Eldre** » Sun, 02 Feb 2003 10:09:03

You never played Battlehawks 1942, Their Finest Hour, or Secret Weapons of the
Luftwaffe? Great games...

Eldred
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by **Eldre** » Sun, 02 Feb 2003 10:09:03

>Not exactly. Google returned only 29 unique useages, seemingly all
>contributed by one Erik Corry as part of his signature. I'll just chalk it
>up to "Microsofties Must Die!"

>> > <<Ceterum censeo Microsoftem esse delendam>>

>> > Okay, I'll bite: translation please.

>> Just Google it up Steve, this quote is so old it's actually from way
>> before the Middle Ages ;)

>> Regards, Ruud

http://www.cromwell-intl.com/fun/latin.html

Eldred
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by **Eldre** » Sun, 02 Feb 2003 10:09:03

writes:

Wait - Train Simulator is more than just a bad joke? I didn't realize anyone
took it seriously...

Eldred
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by **Steve Smit** » Sun, 02 Feb 2003 10:31:42

Update: the console racing-games story isn't in the March issue of MT. They
PAID me for it, so I know they're gonna run it...eventually...but seeing as
how it was originally written for the Christmas issue (I handed in the copy
in September, before I had seen Sega GT 2002, for example), by the time it
finally does appear, the information will be hopelessly out of date. Sorry.

> I also just finished a piece on the Xbox vs. the PS2 for Motor Trend
> magazine: "Car Games for Car Guys." My conclusion: MS has nothing to
offer
> car guys (I'm talking abt. real-world car guys, not arcade-sim jockeys).
> Read it in the March issue (I think). I shudder to think how they might
> handle another road-racing simulation. (BTW, I liked Monster Truck
Madness
> and was unhappy when they walked away from the franchise. I never thought
> much of Midtown Madness, but MM3 for the Xbox sure looks purty. I liked
> their offroad bike sim and wondered why they abandoned that, too. I've
had
> MS Train Simulator for a year - it just lays there. I even thought CPR
> showed some promise, but MS doesn't have any more commitment to what it
> starts than Anna Nicole Smith...no relation.)

> > > Erm, Steve - why exactly would that mean "good things" for racing
sims?
> > > CART Precision Racing, anyone?

> > Does the name MS Flight Simulator mean anything to you, or MS Train
> > Simulator ?

> > They have a huge and loyal following, even some former regulars from the
> > sim racing scene has moved over to the trains, and guess what, they're
> > highly moddable as well, in fact, they're just about everything we wish
> > our racing sims could be, not to mention that MS knows how to sell
> > stuff, meaning it would stand a chance to survive and evolve

> > Online ***....well, we have XboX live which I hear is pretty good and
> > I've played more AOE and AOE2 on "The Zone" than I like to remember,
> > CFSx works pretty well too I've been told

> > I'm all for giving MS a shot at it, in fact, I can hardly see a downside
> > to it, after all, all we've seen from Papy the last 4-5 years are Nascar
> > sims and little to no support for 3rd party add on's, if they want to
> > make a MS Race Car Simulator where you buy the main program and then buy
> > all sorts of after market add on's later on....hang on, where have I
> > heard that idea before

> > Of course, this is all just MHO

> > Beers and cheers
> > (uncle) Goy

> > http://www.racesimcentral.net/

> > "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........"
> > --Groucho Marx--

by **Dave Henri** » Sun, 02 Feb 2003 11:20:30

If it is to be taken seriously then it MUST have Vipers racing across
the tracks just before you get to a crossing...right?
dave henrie

by **mach** » Sun, 02 Feb 2003 13:17:19

>Moyer) writes:

>>Mig Alley was also the first sim I played that really captured the
>>chaos of a huge air war.

>You never played Battlehawks 1942, Their Finest Hour, or Secret Weapons of the
>Luftwaffe? Great games...

Yep, great games. I still have them...
I loved the B-17 and how you could switch positions throughout it.

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by **Steve Smit** » Sun, 02 Feb 2003 21:03:05

Molto thankum, Eldred!

> >Not exactly. Google returned only 29 unique useages, seemingly all
> >contributed by one Erik Corry as part of his signature. I'll just chalk
it
> >up to "Microsofties Must Die!"

> >> > <<Ceterum censeo Microsoftem esse delendam>>

> >> > Okay, I'll bite: translation please.

> >> Just Google it up Steve, this quote is so old it's actually from way
> >> before the Middle Ages ;)

> >> Regards, Ruud

> http://www.cromwell-intl.com/fun/latin.html

> Eldred
> --
> Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
> GPLRank:-0.381
> N2002 Rank:+17.59

> Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats
you
> with experience...
> Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

by **Woodie** » Sun, 02 Feb 2003 21:16:38

>> Wait - Train Simulator is more than just a bad joke? I didn't realize
>> anyone took it seriously...

>> Eldred

>If it is to be taken seriously then it MUST have Vipers racing across
>the tracks just before you get to a crossing...right?

Yeah, but you have to stop if a Cadillac Escalade comes along.

Don McCorkle

by **Uwe hoover Schuerkam** » Sun, 02 Feb 2003 21:58:15

> Of course I'm on ***! Isn't everybody? Sheesh!

> [loads of junk not worth repeating here]

ignore him, Steve, this guy must be some leftover from MS'
latest "grassroots movement" campaign that they organized when
they were still under fire from the DoJ. I bet he's enjoying it
down there in my killfile with the likes of PAPA DOC ;->

Cheers,

hoover

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by **Mike Grand** » Sun, 02 Feb 2003 22:55:06

Or it could mean we'll be racing on an X-Box.

by **Dave Boyl** » Sun, 02 Feb 2003 23:17:04

> On Sat, 01 Feb 2003 00:07:31 GMT, "Dave Boyle"

> >Actually, I'm thinking that the only real reason to acquire Papyrus is
> >because it comes with Sierra and Blizzard, almost as an afterthought. I
> >imagine Microsoft has done extensive research as to what each division
does
> >and it's potential value, so I'm sure they know everything there is to
know
> >about Papyrus. But I doubt their plans for Papyrus are more than just a
drop
> >in the bucket in the grand scheme of things.

> I doubt that. I bet they know everything about the history of Papyrus
> and their racing sims. MS even produced wargames developed by Atomic
> so why wouldn't they take a risk on a *** racing game? The fact
> is they would. Not saying they will, but I have no problem believing
> that they might.

Heheh, I'm probably one of the few people reading this message that happen
to agree with what you wrote ;). All I was saying is that I highly doubt
that Microsoft is going to pay (a reportedly) $2 Billion in cash for Vivendi
Universal's Game Division just so they can get Papyrus to make a ***
racing sim. If the deal happens, I really wouldn't be surprised at whatever
happens to Papyrus.

db

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