rec.autos.simulators

Microsoft might be buying Sierra/Papy

Dave Henri

Microsoft might be buying Sierra/Papy

by Dave Henri » Sun, 02 Feb 2003 23:46:50


lol

Goy Larse

Microsoft might be buying Sierra/Papy

by Goy Larse » Mon, 03 Feb 2003 02:44:58




> > I doubt that. I bet they know everything about the history of Papyrus
> > and their racing sims. MS even produced wargames developed by Atomic
> > so why wouldn't they take a risk on a *** racing game? The fact
> > is they would. Not saying they will, but I have no problem believing
> > that they might.

> Heheh, I'm probably one of the few people reading this message that happen
> to agree with what you wrote ;). All I was saying is that I highly doubt
> that Microsoft is going to pay (a reportedly) $2 Billion in cash for Vivendi
> Universal's Game Division just so they can get Papyrus to make a ***
> racing sim. If the deal happens, I really wouldn't be surprised at whatever
> happens to Papyrus.

Totally agree, I just don't see it as an automatic shut down of the "PC
division" at Papy as some seems to think will happen

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy

http://www.racesimcentral.net/

"A man is only as old as the woman he feels........"
--Groucho Marx--

Steve Smit

Microsoft might be buying Sierra/Papy

by Steve Smit » Mon, 03 Feb 2003 04:29:20

I played the bejesus outta all Larry Holland's brilliant games (prominently
featured in my flight-sim book) for Lucasarts, particularly SWoTL, one of
the most strategically complex simulations ever.  If you chose to increase
Me-262 production over the ubiquitous-but-outdated Bf-109 (quality over
quantity) you had to remember to increase kerosene (jet fuel) production
over avgas!  SWoTL also had oil on the windshield from damaged
engines...something else Papyrus said they couldn't do (this was 15 years
ago - they're just getting around to debris on the N2003 windshields!).

P.S.  I got an email from Holland some months ago that said he was working
on another WW II flight sim.



(Jason
> Moyer) writes:

> >Mig Alley was also the first sim I played that really captured the
> >chaos of a huge air war.

> You never played Battlehawks 1942, Their Finest Hour, or Secret Weapons of
the
> Luftwaffe?  Great games...

> Eldred
> --
> Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
> GPLRank:-0.381
> N2002 Rank:+17.59

> Never argue with an idiot.  He brings you down to his level, then beats
you
> with experience...
> Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Marty_

Microsoft might be buying Sierra/Papy

by Marty_ » Mon, 03 Feb 2003 01:30:50


--Snipped--

So how is being 'governed' by Microsoft worse than being goverened by Apple?

Marty

Goy Larse

Microsoft might be buying Sierra/Papy

by Goy Larse » Mon, 03 Feb 2003 07:47:51




> --Snipped--
> > And yes, you're wrong - there are plenty of Mac users who know darn well
> > how monopolistic Apple is in its own little world. We know, we use the
> > stuff, ... and still, it's still better than being governed by Microsoft.

> So how is being 'governed' by Microsoft worse than being goverened by Apple?

Because MS makes more money than Apple does silly

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy
"goyl at nettx dot no"

http://www.theuspits.com

"A man is only as old as the woman he feels........"
--Groucho Marx--

Eldre

Microsoft might be buying Sierra/Papy

by Eldre » Mon, 03 Feb 2003 09:16:20



>I played the bejesus outta all Larry Holland's brilliant games (prominently
>featured in my flight-sim book) for Lucasarts, particularly SWoTL, one of
>the most strategically complex simulations ever.  If you chose to increase
>Me-262 production over the ubiquitous-but-outdated Bf-109 (quality over
>quantity) you had to remember to increase kerosene (jet fuel) production
>over avgas!  SWoTL also had oil on the windshield from damaged
>engines...something else Papyrus said they couldn't do (this was 15 years
>ago - they're just getting around to debris on the N2003 windshields!).

I found that the jets were TOO fast - I would usually stick with the 109's.  In
the 262, I tended to overshoot my target too much.

Cool!  I've always preferred WWII combat over modern aerial warfare.  Maybe by
the time it's out, I'll be able to start buying games again.  Any idea who the
publisher will be?

Eldred
--
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
GPLRank:-0.381
N2002 Rank:+17.59

Never argue with an idiot.  He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Ruud Dingeman

Microsoft might be buying Sierra/Papy

by Ruud Dingeman » Mon, 03 Feb 2003 10:33:55


>>choose from, not just Wintel x86 clone stuff, and there is a difference.
>>It's sad to see a pc world full of clones nowadays and not much else.)
> what they are like. They don't run the games I want to play so they
> are a non contender in for me.

That's fine.

That's BS  ;)    there's more to a computer than the cpu, like the os it
uses and the level of component integration.

So the user is actually the defining factor in pc stability? Interesting
definition -  if only knowledgeable users are able to keep a pc going...

PC's *are* clones. Clones of a 23-year-old system and all using the came
x86 cpu. How many "PC's" are there that DON'T use an x86 type CPU and
AREN'T able to run Windows?  THAT's how far we've come, and like I said,
that's just sad.

Actually, currently, we can only run non-clones since Apple
(monopolistically, oh yes) kicked the clones out of the Mac market some
time ago. That left only the original.

  I saw an article

Come over any day. I'll show you MacMESS running on MacOS X. Bet it hits
even more than 34 OS'es. I could show you OS/2, Windows 2000 or XP
running at the same time as well, if my own Mac had more RAM and a
faster CPU to run VirtualPC... and oh yeah, the reverse can't be done
since OSX doesn't run on pc hardware.

It could, but it doesn't.

Why cater for pc hardware if you are trying to compete with pc's? Note:
and supply the *ONLY* generally available system *LEFT* that's *NOT* a
pc x86 clone.

So don't come up to me and talk about monopolies, kiddo.

Regards, Ruud

Ruud Dingeman

Microsoft might be buying Sierra/Papy

by Ruud Dingeman » Mon, 03 Feb 2003 10:47:04


> That's not my point. He called PC's boring clones

PC's *are* boring clones, from a technological point of view. They
slavishly copy a 23-year-old IBM design, slavishly force themselves to
be compatible with an OS from *just one* company, all run the same
x86-type CPU, and virtually all run that one OS we all know & love.

There virtually aren't any personal computers out there that don't fit
that mold any more, apart from Apple's and some workstations, and that's
just plain sad.

True. Nevertheless, they still are all made in the same mold; show me a
pc that *cannot* run Windows and *does not* use an x86-type CPU and then
we'll have, by comparison, an interesting non-cloned design.

You *can* wear them like that, but you may just as well use them as yer
average Unix workstation (MacOS X!) and just do their job.

Regards, Ruud

"Ceterum censeo Microsoftem esse delendam"

Ruud Dingeman

Microsoft might be buying Sierra/Papy

by Ruud Dingeman » Mon, 03 Feb 2003 11:02:39


>>And yes, you're wrong - there are plenty of Mac users who know darn well
>>how monopolistic Apple is in its own little world. We know, we use the
>>stuff, ... and still, it's still better than being governed by Microsoft.
> So how is being 'governed' by Microsoft worse than being goverened by Apple?

Well, Apple is one of those rare companies that actually cares about how
good or original its stuff is. Kinda like Papy.  It's product-oriented.

Microsoft, OTOH, in the end does not care about quality or originality
one bit, as long as it makes money.  It's cash-oriented.

Regards, Ruud

PS. That's definitely not to say Apple supplies paradise on earth, of
course. It's just definitely better in some areas (not always the
important ones, mind..)

mach

Microsoft might be buying Sierra/Papy

by mach » Mon, 03 Feb 2003 12:43:35




>>I played the bejesus outta all Larry Holland's brilliant games (prominently
>>featured in my flight-sim book) for Lucasarts, particularly SWoTL, one of
>>the most strategically complex simulations ever.  If you chose to increase
>>Me-262 production over the ubiquitous-but-outdated Bf-109 (quality over
>>quantity) you had to remember to increase kerosene (jet fuel) production
>>over avgas!  SWoTL also had oil on the windshield from damaged
>>engines...something else Papyrus said they couldn't do (this was 15 years
>>ago - they're just getting around to debris on the N2003 windshields!).

>I found that the jets were TOO fast - I would usually stick with the 109's.  In
>the 262, I tended to overshoot my target too much.

I believe it was really like that during the war... And you can always decrease
engine power. Just use maximum power when you have to get away (I've experienced
a similar problem even with Red Baron 3D, which features much slower planes).

'Maybe by then I'll be able to start buying games again'? My God, it's an
epidemic! ;-)

--
__________   ____---____       Marco Antonio  Checa  Funcke
\_________D /-/---_----'      Santiago de Surco, Lima, Peru
       _H__/_/                      http://machf.tripod.com
      '-_____|(    

remove the "no_me_j." and "sons.of." parts before replying

Goy Larse

Microsoft might be buying Sierra/Papy

by Goy Larse » Mon, 03 Feb 2003 20:09:42

Nos, is that you ?

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy
"goyl at nettx dot no"

http://www.theuspits.com

"A man is only as old as the woman he feels........"
--Groucho Marx--

Goy Larse

Microsoft might be buying Sierra/Papy

by Goy Larse » Mon, 03 Feb 2003 20:39:48



> reckoned:

> >Nos, is that you ?

> No comment. :-)

ROFL

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy
"goyl at nettx dot no"

http://www.theuspits.com

"A man is only as old as the woman he feels........"
--Groucho Marx--

Jason Moy

Microsoft might be buying Sierra/Papy

by Jason Moy » Tue, 04 Feb 2003 00:19:41



Apple stopped being anything more than another Microsoft the day Jobs
fired Wozniak.  The only real difference I can see is that Microsoft
has an ultra-conservative marketing campaign and Apple goes for more
of the MTV-generation edgy-conservative market.  Same shit, different
packaging.

Jason

Eldre

Microsoft might be buying Sierra/Papy

by Eldre » Tue, 04 Feb 2003 01:00:37



>>I found that the jets were TOO fast - I would usually stick with the 109's.
>In
>>the 262, I tended to overshoot my target too much.

>I believe it was really like that during the war... And you can always
>decrease
>engine power. Just use maximum power when you have to get away (I've
>experienced
>a similar problem even with Red Baron 3D, which features much slower planes).

Yeah I could, but I was usually too fixated on my target to manipulate the
throttle effectively.  I did *much* better flying 109's...<g>

Eldred
--
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
GPLRank:-0.381
N2002 Rank:+17.59

Never argue with an idiot.  He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Ruud Dingeman

Microsoft might be buying Sierra/Papy

by Ruud Dingeman » Wed, 05 Feb 2003 15:55:20


> know a PC is quite capable of running OSX. The basic architecture of a
> Mac is the same as a PC except that it uses a Motorola cpu instead of
> an AMD or Intel cpu.

Sure, right - and those ROMs are basically the same, too.. and the i/o,
and the chipsets used, and the proprietary stuff... Heck, if you put an
Intel cpu in a Mac, I bet it would run Windows right away. Sure...

Bad example - back then, Internet was pretty hard to set up on *any*
machine for the average user. Nowadays, I just type in one single
codeword in OS X, and it's up. Can't get much easier than that.

That's gonna be interesting then, eek, no old games will run.. And oh
yes, there was a non-Intel PowerPC version of NT, it was very popular
and well-supported. (/sarcasm off)

Because they're unoriginal, non-innovative, and boring copies (in this
case, of something that wasn't too original or innovative itself. And
yes, I have one (the 5150 w/cassette port) so I know what I'm talking
about here - there are more interesting machines in my antiques
collection that are both older, as well as more interesting and original.)

Such eloquent rhetorics. Woo hoo.

Regards, Ruud


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