rec.autos.simulators

by **Dave Henri** » Fri, 31 Jan 2003 00:32:01

Hoss

Longterm? Because they only get a portion of your money when you buy a
computer. MS has to taylor Windows to work with 1000's of psuedo
partners(the computer manufactuers) If they integrate much of the computer
into the Xbox's future releases, they can control more and more of the
overall purchase. By making the middlemen irrelevant, they eliminate
another source of cash drainage and competition.
I'm not saying it will happen soon, but just wait till the Xbox is
running the cable programs and controlling the Big Screen tv's etc.
dave henrie

by **Dave Boyl** » Fri, 31 Jan 2003 00:44:30

You know, I've read that they are marketing more towards females now...
;o ;D

db

by **Uncle Feste** » Fri, 31 Jan 2003 00:55:11

> reckoned:

>>- more Road Rash,
>>anyone?

> Sure, that would explain why they publish games like Flightsim and
> Trainsim. Your hatred of MS is blinding you to the truth.

With FS2002 you have a point. But Train Simulator is buggy as hell.
It's only saving grace is it's the only one in it's genre at present.
Which further proves the point that a title don't have to be good, just
make plenty of $$$.

--

Fester

Don't take life too seriously, you won't get out alive.

by **Doug Millike** » Fri, 31 Jan 2003 02:27:34

The hell of it is that game boxes offer the best chance to
"get force feedback right". My reasoning is as follows:

With the closed architecture of a game box it's possible to give
programmers access to the external hardware without any intermediate
"layers" of APIs, and thus REDUCE THE LATENCY so that FF could really work
properly. As discussed in a thread a few months ago, the simulated car
frequency response might be 5 Hz (F1 car), so the motor on the FF wheel
needs to be fed good data at (at least) 50Hz...and this means that to get
things correct, the car physics model has to be feeding the servo loop for
the motor at ~500Hz updates. 1000Hz would be better, and based on
experience (with arcade games) would feel better too.

In the Windows environment, there is such a proliferation of hardware that
I suppose some kind of API scheme is the only way to keep the OS even a
little bit stable (but I really don't know anything about that).

If you can find one, go play an Atari Hard Drivin or Race Drivin, that is
how good FF can be. I've not tried a home wheel yet that was even close.
(Thanks again to Steve for letting me try your setup -- best home setup
I've tried so far).

-- Doug Milliken
www.millikenresearch.com

> There ain't none. At best, this might be considered "psuedo" FF for the
> proprioceptically-challenged.

> And considering FF has been so unsuccessful in the U.S. that Guillemot
> doesn't even bother importing the promising-looking Ferrari FF wheel for the
> PC, I wouldn't expect to see anything better for the Xbox than TM's
> execrable NASCAR Pro Victory wheel (a truly uselsss piece of h/w) on this
> side of the pond.

.........

by **Goy Larse** » Fri, 31 Jan 2003 04:15:50

> With FS2002 you have a point. But Train Simulator is buggy as hell.
> It's only saving grace is it's the only one in it's genre at present.
> Which further proves the point that a title don't have to be good, just
> make plenty of $$$.

Yes, but which company had the balls to give it a shot at least ?

The same good be said for tons of other products as well, and look at
the FPS genre, it's so crowded in there they can sell just about
anything as the customers can't keep track of the products, Iron Storm
anyone ?

FSxxxx is a decent sim according to people I know who cares about FS,
Age of xxxx is a decent RTS, especially in multiplayer, according to me
:-), just because it says MS on the box doesn't automatically make it
bad

I can't believe I'm the one defending MS on this issue, I hate MS on
principle because they're Capitalism reincarnated into one company, but
that doesn't mean I'm blind to the possibilities, and until we've had a
proper world wide revolution and distributed their wealth to the needy,
I'll buy their products as long as they're good and they fill my needs

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy

http://www.theuspits.com

"A man is only as old as the woman he feels........"
--Groucho Marx--

by **Gerry Aitke** » Fri, 31 Jan 2003 05:08:00

> Hush! Don't make him come back ;-)

You have to say his name three times, apparently. :)

by **Steve Smit** » Fri, 31 Jan 2003 05:36:31

The PS2 FF is fine.

> The hell of it is that game boxes offer the best chance to
> "get force feedback right". My reasoning is as follows:

> With the closed architecture of a game box it's possible to give
> programmers access to the external hardware without any intermediate
> "layers" of APIs, and thus REDUCE THE LATENCY so that FF could really work
> properly. As discussed in a thread a few months ago, the simulated car
> frequency response might be 5 Hz (F1 car), so the motor on the FF wheel
> needs to be fed good data at (at least) 50Hz...and this means that to get
> things correct, the car physics model has to be feeding the servo loop for
> the motor at ~500Hz updates. 1000Hz would be better, and based on
> experience (with arcade games) would feel better too.

> In the Windows environment, there is such a proliferation of hardware that
> I suppose some kind of API scheme is the only way to keep the OS even a
> little bit stable (but I really don't know anything about that).

> If you can find one, go play an Atari Hard Drivin or Race Drivin, that is
> how good FF can be. I've not tried a home wheel yet that was even close.
> (Thanks again to Steve for letting me try your setup -- best home setup
> I've tried so far).

> -- Doug Milliken
> www.millikenresearch.com

> > There ain't none. At best, this might be considered "psuedo" FF for the
> > proprioceptically-challenged.

> > And considering FF has been so unsuccessful in the U.S. that Guillemot
> > doesn't even bother importing the promising-looking Ferrari FF wheel for
the
> > PC, I wouldn't expect to see anything better for the Xbox than TM's
> > execrable NASCAR Pro Victory wheel (a truly uselsss piece of h/w) on
this
> > side of the pond.

> .........

by **Steve Smit** » Fri, 31 Jan 2003 05:34:50

FS2002 is okay...for the sim FS2001 shoulda been in the first place...but
CFS3 sure ain't. Talk abt. buggy as hell....

> > reckoned:

> >>- more Road Rash,
> >>anyone?

> > Sure, that would explain why they publish games like Flightsim and
> > Trainsim. Your hatred of MS is blinding you to the truth.

> With FS2002 you have a point. But Train Simulator is buggy as hell.
> It's only saving grace is it's the only one in it's genre at present.
> Which further proves the point that a title don't have to be good, just
> make plenty of $$$.

> --

> Fester

> Don't take life too seriously, you won't get out alive.

by **Larr** » Fri, 31 Jan 2003 06:08:55

And it could mean the end of everything we treasure.

I don't like it.

Larry

by **Larr** » Fri, 31 Jan 2003 06:10:12

Maybe she forgot to "Activate" it ?

Larry

> The Ultimate Microsoft Anecdote is what they've done to sales of the new
BMW
> 7-Series. My jaw dropped when I heard BMW boasting that the GUI in the
next
> 7-Series would be "powered by" Windows. Now the votes are in: everybody
> hates it - the critics, the owners - everybody. Not only is it impossible
> to decipher, it has a learning curve steeper than the North Face. And
once
> you think you've got it handled, it exhibits all the horrors we FDUs have
> hated it for since the previous century. One woman complained the
> (alledgedly) voice-controlled radio would come on for no reason, at top
> volume. The only way it could be turned off was to pull over, turn off
the
> ignition, wait 10 seconds, then restart the car. I don't want these
people
> making my operating system, I don't want them mucking about with my car,
and
> I sure as hell don't want them messing with my simulations!

> > MS has put out a lot of excellent racing games.

> > David G Fisher

> > > Erm, Steve - why exactly would that mean "good things" for racing
sims?
> > > CART Precision Racing, anyone?

> > > > If it happens this could mean good things for Papy's racing sims.

> > > > http://www.gamepro.com/lofi/article.cfm?article_id=27923

by **Redmis** » Fri, 31 Jan 2003 07:12:01

Well, they're releasing a patch for Unreal Championship via Xbox Live....

by **Steve Smit** » Fri, 31 Jan 2003 09:13:40

Hmmm, true enuf, Johnny, but there are no online racing games for the Xbox
yet, are there? Pro Race Driver was to have been the first. Now it looks
like Midtown Madness 3 will be the first online *driving* game, but with its
free-form format (no defines circuits) it could hardly be called a racing
game. At any rate, it's too far down the pike to be considered for a FF
retro-upgrade, and I don't know of any other driving games in the pipeline
that might benefit. Gran Turismo 4, OTOH....

by **Steve Smit** » Fri, 31 Jan 2003 09:16:12

Bottom-lime time: when as and if MS buys Vivendi's *** assets, they could
as easily shutter Papy altogether as task them with designing the world's
best road-racing simulation. If you were Bill Gates...well, *you* make the
call.

> And it could mean the end of everything we treasure.

> I don't like it.

> Larry

> > If it happens this could mean good things for Papy's racing sims.

> > http://www.racesimcentral.net/

by **Dave Henri** » Fri, 31 Jan 2003 09:45:39

I wouldn't even bet Bill would be informed IF MS bought Vivendi's games.
Too small to register. :)
Whose in charge of the Xbox division?
dave henrie

by **Uncle Feste** » Fri, 31 Jan 2003 12:47:02

> FS2002 is okay...for the sim FS2001 shoulda been in the first place...but
> CFS3 sure ain't. Talk abt. buggy as hell....

Agreed. :-)

--

Fester

Annoy the IRS: Fill out your tax form using binary

rec.autos.simulators

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