rec.autos.simulators

by **Uncle Feste** » Fri, 31 Jan 2003 12:51:51

>>With FS2002 you have a point. But Train Simulator is buggy as hell.
>>It's only saving grace is it's the only one in it's genre at present.
>>Which further proves the point that a title don't have to be good, just
>>make plenty of $$$.

> Yes, but which company had the balls to give it a shot at least ?

I'll give them credit for that.

However Hoss seemed to be implying that finding fault in any M$ product
showed one was blinded by hatred of M$. That was the context of my
reply & I stand by it.

SNIP

Face it. You're getting old & soft Goy. :-)

--

Fester

If one synchronized swimmer drowns, do the rest have to drown too?

by **Ruud Dingeman** » Fri, 31 Jan 2003 15:25:51

> Sure, that would explain why they publish games like Flightsim and
> Trainsim. Your hatred of MS is blinding you to the truth.

The truth? Yours or mine? There is no such thing as 'the one truth',
there are only approximations of truth, imho.

I don't 'hate' Microsoft, I don't even claim all of their products are
all bad, I just really really don't like their business model, it's
dangerous and we should be on our guard wherever it rears its ugly head.

Regards, Ruud

"Ceterum censeo Microsoftem esse delendam"

by **Steve Smit** » Fri, 31 Jan 2003 20:46:43

Or didn't realize the "Shut Down" command is in the "Start" menu.

> Maybe she forgot to "Activate" it ?

> Larry

> > The Ultimate Microsoft Anecdote is what they've done to sales of the new
> BMW
> > 7-Series. My jaw dropped when I heard BMW boasting that the GUI in the
> next
> > 7-Series would be "powered by" Windows. Now the votes are in: everybody
> > hates it - the critics, the owners - everybody. Not only is it
impossible
> > to decipher, it has a learning curve steeper than the North Face. And
> once
> > you think you've got it handled, it exhibits all the horrors we FDUs
have
> > hated it for since the previous century. One woman complained the
> > (alledgedly) voice-controlled radio would come on for no reason, at top
> > volume. The only way it could be turned off was to pull over, turn off
> the
> > ignition, wait 10 seconds, then restart the car. I don't want these
> people
> > making my operating system, I don't want them mucking about with my car,
> and
> > I sure as hell don't want them messing with my simulations!

> > > MS has put out a lot of excellent racing games.

> > > David G Fisher

> > > > Erm, Steve - why exactly would that mean "good things" for racing
> sims?
> > > > CART Precision Racing, anyone?

> > > > > If it happens this could mean good things for Papy's racing sims.

> > > > > http://www.gamepro.com/lofi/article.cfm?article_id=27923

by **Steve Smit** » Fri, 31 Jan 2003 20:51:21

Strategy First issued a patch within weeks of SF's release. We're still
waiting for the CFS3 patch (never mind the TS patch!). And if European Air
War (Strike Fighters' progenitor) is any indication, it'll eventually be
twice the game CFS3 is, thanks to the flight sim community (which barely
supports the CFS series) and the SF's open architecture (an anathema to MS).
Of course, I could be wrong...NOT!

> On Wed, 29 Jan 2003 20:34:50 GMT, "Steve Smith"

> >FS2002 is okay...for the sim FS2001 shoulda been in the first place...but
> >CFS3 sure ain't. Talk abt. buggy as hell....

> It has it's fans still, lots of them in fact, of which I am not one.
> But there will be a patch released soon so I may become one yet.
> I bought Strike Fighters at around the same time as CFS3 and I find
> that far more disappointing than CFS3 and it's not a MS product, as a
> comparison.
> --
> "Paw, I'm powerful hungry!"

by **Steve Smit** » Fri, 31 Jan 2003 20:53:17

Ruud,

<<Ceterum censeo Microsoftem esse delendam>>

Okay, I'll bite: translation please.

--Steve

> > Sure, that would explain why they publish games like Flightsim and
> > Trainsim. Your hatred of MS is blinding you to the truth.

> The truth? Yours or mine? There is no such thing as 'the one truth',
> there are only approximations of truth, imho.

> I don't 'hate' Microsoft, I don't even claim all of their products are
> all bad, I just really really don't like their business model, it's
> dangerous and we should be on our guard wherever it rears its ugly head.

> Regards, Ruud

> "Ceterum censeo Microsoftem esse delendam"

by **Uncle Feste** » Fri, 31 Jan 2003 21:01:52

> On Wed, 29 Jan 2003 10:55:11 -0500, Uncle Fester

>>With FS2002 you have a point. But Train Simulator is buggy as hell.
>>It's only saving grace is it's the only one in it's genre at present.
>>Which further proves the point that a title don't have to be good, just
>>make plenty of $$$.

> It's not the only one of it's genre. There are a number of trainsims
> on the market. In fact I have one right here called Trainz. And just
> how buggy is it? I've never noticed any glaring bugs and it has many
> fans. The fact is that it is a niche product and MS was wiling to
> bring it to market which proves they are not interested in doing just
> arcade games as was implied by the other poster.

Trainz *is* a different genre. It is a model train simulation whereas
MSTS is a "real world" train simulation. Hang out on the development
forums at Trainsim.com & you'll find out just how buggy it is. It still
has a lot of followers however.

--

Fester

at least I thought I was dancing, 'til somebody stepped on my hand.

by **Joachim Trens** » Fri, 31 Jan 2003 21:49:33

And anyway, Microsoft must be destroyed :)
(choice of words modernized <g>)

Achim

by **Uwe hoover Schuerkam** » Fri, 31 Jan 2003 21:45:29

> Bollocks. MS also makes Windows for PC's. Or haven't you noticed yet?

Bollocks yourself. They own the freaking PC market, haven't you
noticed? This is not true of the console market yet, but just
you wait... 8-P

HAND,

uwe

--
mail replies to Uwe at schuerkamp dot de ( yahoo address is spambox)
Uwe Schuerkamp //////////////////////////// http://www.schuerkamp.de/
Herford, Germany \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ (52.0N/8.5E)
GPG Fingerprint: 2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F 67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61

by **Jason Moy** » Sat, 01 Feb 2003 02:52:14

On Thu, 30 Jan 2003 11:51:21 GMT, "Steve Smith"

>Strategy First issued a patch within weeks of SF's release. We're still
>waiting for the CFS3 patch (never mind the TS patch!). And if European Air
>War (Strike Fighters' progenitor) is any indication, it'll eventually be
>twice the game CFS3 is, thanks to the flight sim community (which barely
>supports the CFS series) and the SF's open architecture (an anathema to MS).
>Of course, I could be wrong...NOT!

I dunno, I bought the Wal-Mart version and it still kicked ass. It
wasn't IL-2, but I'm much more of a fan of Korea and early Vietnam
(planes are more fun to fly than most WWII-era stuff but dogfighting
is still an actual skill). The flight models aren't bad, the weapons
systems are awesome, the AI is decent, etc. Not a bad $40 spent by my
standards.

CSF 2 and 3 don't interest me even a tiny bit. I bought CSF and it
was one of the few sims I just could not get into.

What I'd really like is Mig Alley 2, but I guess we can't all have our
dreams. Mig Alley is still the only flight sim I constantly find
myself drawn back to (that and Freespace 1/2, but they hardly count
=).

Jason

by **Jason Moy** » Sat, 01 Feb 2003 03:03:40

>Well, it's possible, but I don't think it will happen that way. Sure
>there will be more games avaialble from MS for the XBox but they also
>know there are those of use that will not buy any console and they can
>make a profit from us too by making PC games too.

I dunno, I was just browsing the PC section at EB (while buying some
Xbox games) and realized that the last 2 remotely notable games that
have come out are NOLF2 and Arx Fatalis. And they've both been out
for over 3 months now. Of course, that might be why the local EB took
the PC selection and squished it into a little corner in the back of
the store to make room for PS2/Xbox stuff.

I also went to Best Buy (to buy some more xbox games) and found it
kinda funny that the PC section was stocked 1 row deep as if they
didn't have enough product to display.

Jason

by **mach** » Sat, 01 Feb 2003 08:44:28

>reckoned:

>>I'm all for Microsoft buying Sierra/Papy, but unfortunately we'll be
>>forced to buy a XBOX in order to play any new sims that come from
>>them.

>Bollocks. MS also makes Windows for PC's. Or haven't you noticed yet?

But M$ doesn't *make PCs*. How much does an XBOX cost, and how much does
Windows cost? Not to mention the upgradability of PCs...

--
__________ ____---____ Marco Antonio Checa Funcke
\_________D /-/---_----' Santiago de Surco, Lima, Peru
_H__/_/ http://machf.tripod.com
'-_____|(

remove the "no_me_j." and "sons.of." parts before replying

by **Ruud Dingeman** » Sat, 01 Feb 2003 13:12:25

>>I don't 'hate' Microsoft, I don't even claim all of their products are
>>all bad, I just really really don't like their business model, it's
>>dangerous and we should be on our guard wherever it rears its ugly head.
> I don't like it either, but I don't see anyone bashing Apple for being
> even more monopolistic.

Oh, you've just found the right guy to talk to - an Apple user :)

And yes, you're wrong - there are plenty of Mac users who know darn well
how monopolistic Apple is in its own little world. We know, we use the
stuff, ... and still, it's still better than being governed by Microsoft.

Um, putting a tall and a small guy together is lying? ;)

Oh, and pc's deserve every bashing they get, for being unoriginal boring
clones of one of the same design (not even a very good one).

(I'm from the era where with Tandy, Apple, Commodore, MSX, Acorn and
Philips systems we still actually had several different computers to
choose from, not just Wintel x86 clone stuff, and there is a difference.
It's sad to see a pc world full of clones nowadays and not much else.)

Regards, Ruud

by **Ruud Dingeman** » Sat, 01 Feb 2003 13:14:03

> <<Ceterum censeo Microsoftem esse delendam>>

> Okay, I'll bite: translation please.

Just Google it up Steve, this quote is so old it's actually from way
before the Middle Ages ;)

Regards, Ruud

by **Jason Moy** » Sat, 01 Feb 2003 14:21:26

>Well, what are you complaining for? You just said you went there to
>buy some more XBox games. People like you are to blame for the demise
>of PC ***. Enjoy your candy ass arcade XBox games though.

Er, yeah, Splinter Cell and Panzer Dragoon are pretty candy ass, as
are all 3 of the xbox-versions of the Tony Hawk series. Halo is
pretty ***as are NFL/NHL/NBA 2k3. And don't get me started on Fatal
Frame, what a ***game that was...there are tons of better horror
games on the PC. And really, it's a good thing Jet Set Radio never
came out for the PC because it's so horrible.

I've sunk thousands of dollars into computer *** in the past 20
years. I'm the last person who wants to the see PC *** die,
especially when I'm trying to justify spending $2000 on a new PC to be
used strictly for *** so I can relegate my current system to my
recording studio.

I mean come on, my Ti4400 alone was $300. My x-box was $200 and came
with one of my all-time favorite games (JSRF). I bought a
high-quality 20" flat screen TV for my x-box/dreamcast for about $140.
I don't even want to consider what that's going to get me in terms of
monitors. I'm seriously considering buying a PS2 and Gamecube instead
of new PC hardware because it will cost me far far less money and I
know I'll be able to get good games for both systems. For what a new
PC and high-quality 20" monitor would cost, you can buy all 3 major
consoles and a 30" HDTV. That is sick.

There has been so little of value coming out for the PC that it's
genuinely sad. There are basically 3 games I can think of right now
that I'm looking forward to, N2002/Deus Ex2/Thief 3 and I wouldn't be
surprised if the latter of those didn't comt out until Christmas 2004.

Besides all of that, Tiger Woods 2003 is the only good non-text sports
game that has come out on the PC since PGA 2000 (and Front Page Sports
Baseball 98 before that). I love racing, but I also love
baseball/football/basketball/hockey, and the only decent action
renditions of those sports are console only.

All of that said, I would certainly welcome more conole games being
released on the PC. I would love a PC Jet Set Radio game, any kind of
racing game with a rewarding career mode (how consoles have the
monopoly here is beyond me), PC versions of the Sega Sports series, a
PC Panzer Dragoon game, etc. PC games don't sell now quite simply
because most of them suck. I'd give my left leg for a good PC game
that actually took full advantage of the Geforce 4 and DX8 (not to
mention the FX or 9700 and DX9) but apparently it's not happening.

Until something changes, I guess it will be another year of playing
GPL, N2003, the Simbin mods, Out of the Park 5, Civ 3, and Thief/Deus
Ex/NOLF over and over. I'll also buy the 2 or 3 titles of value that
PC publishers decide to release this year, assuming any stores decide
to stock them.

Jason

by **Jason Moy** » Sat, 01 Feb 2003 14:24:15

Ugh. Making me sad and nostalgic here. =(

Time to dig out the ti99 and see if it still works...

Jason

rec.autos.simulators

Microsoft might be buying Sierra/Papy

Microsoft might be buying Sierra/Papy

Microsoft might be buying Sierra/Papy

Microsoft might be buying Sierra/Papy

Microsoft might be buying Sierra/Papy

Microsoft might be buying Sierra/Papy

Microsoft might be buying Sierra/Papy

Microsoft might be buying Sierra/Papy

Microsoft might be buying Sierra/Papy

Microsoft might be buying Sierra/Papy

Microsoft might be buying Sierra/Papy

Microsoft might be buying Sierra/Papy

Microsoft might be buying Sierra/Papy

Microsoft might be buying Sierra/Papy

Microsoft might be buying Sierra/Papy

Microsoft might be buying Sierra/Papy