rec.autos.simulators

Trans-Am Mod

Jason Moy

Trans-Am Mod

by Jason Moy » Tue, 02 Mar 2004 01:14:53

On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 15:35:31 GMT, "Jan Verschueren"

<snip a large pile of stuff>

PTA = Papyrus Trans Am = Fictional Cars

It's kinda pointless arguing the physics parameters of cars that don't
exist.  PTA was a last minute thing for the 1.2.0.1 patch to give road
racers something to drive that doesn't feel like a dump truck on
monster truck tires (unless you use Achim's setups <vbg>).  The
performance of the cars is closer to early 70's F1 than trans am.

I actually kinda like that PTA uses nascar setup parameters because it
makes it much easier to get your crossweight setup right.  Instead of
playing around with assymetrical springs for 5 hours at Watkins Glen
you can just lower the wedge all the way.

It happens when you're driving down Mulsanne. =)

Jason

Jan Verschuere

Trans-Am Mod

by Jan Verschuere » Tue, 02 Mar 2004 01:33:47

LOL!! ;-)

Really? -Hmmm... perhaps the majority of righthanders masks it from me.

Jan.
=---

Steve Smit

Trans-Am Mod

by Steve Smit » Tue, 02 Mar 2004 01:34:37

As Achim pointed out (in open forum, I hope), you *can* get the RF temp
down, but then the car becomes squirrelly.  Monza is the best example: it is
virtually devoid of left turns, so if you jack everything around to make the
RF temp lower, the setup is out of whack.  Apparently the RF is *supposed*
to run ca. 5 deg. hotter than the LF, so that's what you should aim for.

Wedge can be used to equalize temps/weights, but then the handling becomes
wildly asymmetrical, loose as a goose on RH turns, say, and plowing like a
Farmall on LH turns.


> The front tire bug is pretty easy to fix in most cases.  Doesn't even seem
> to happen at all tracks, for example I didn't really see it at
Silverstone,
> but OTOH it was quite *** at LeMans Sarthe and at Monza.  But in most
> cases a little bit of de-wedge, a little bit of rear weight bias, and
> slightly less camber on the RF than on the LF will fix it and still gives
> reasonable handling.  For example I usually end up with about 49.4% front
> weight, 49.4% wedge, and 0.10 deg less camber on the RF.  Equal front
weight
> and wedge will keep the left side weights equal and just shift weight from
> RF to RR, which seems to be what it needs.  Then you de-camber the RF to
> keep it from getting too loose, plus that also usually lowers the RF temp
a
> tad more.  That won't necessarily get the temperatures exactly equal but
it
> equalizes the wear and still gives good handling.  Once I have the wear
> equalized I don't mess with it any further.



> > I can think of one thing, and that is the tire temp "bug" imbalance
> > between LF and RF (a consequence of the NASCAR oval
> > physics)-that doesn't bother me much tho.

> >           John DiFool

Mitch_

Trans-Am Mod

by Mitch_ » Tue, 02 Mar 2004 02:15:58

Wow Jan we actually agree on SOMETHING! ;)


Jan Verschuere

Trans-Am Mod

by Jan Verschuere » Tue, 02 Mar 2004 02:39:09

There is hope for you yet, Mitch. <vbg>

Jan.
=---

Mitch_

Trans-Am Mod

by Mitch_ » Tue, 02 Mar 2004 02:46:00

THE ONLY THING THE Nx SERIES HAS GOING FOR IT IS THE ONLINE CODE.    The
rest is a sad re-hash of 4-5 yr old game engine (which was dumbed down
anyway, remember).  The TA mod is a bad joke.  Basically give a Stock car 6
gears and call it a Sports car....  Yea right :-)

Ive spent many hours with each, have you?  Whenever someone tries to tell me
white is black and I know different Ill argue till Im blue.  If you have sub
par hardware or a 56k connection then yea, by all means continue running
NR2003 as you cant compare them fairly.  But IF you meet these conditions
and spend the TIME setting up F1C correctly youre in for a real sports
car/muscle car treat.

Mitch


> On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 14:32:16 GMT, "Jan Verschueren"

> Unfortunately they do a worse job at everything else.

> Jason

Haqsa

Trans-Am Mod

by Haqsa » Tue, 02 Mar 2004 02:56:56

I have not had a problem with assymetrical handling.  De-wedge takes weight
off the RF and LR, making it looser on left turns and tighter on right
turns.  Decambering the RF fixes the left turns, moving the weight rearward
fixes the right turns.  Taken together those three things bring the RF temp
down without assymetrical handling problems.  IIRC the PWF Expert setup for
Kyalami uses this technique, so you can try that if you want to see how it
works.

Regarding the "5 deg. hotter" point, as I said in my previous post I don't
worry if the RF is a little bit high as long as the wear is equalized, so
perhaps I have arrived at that point by trial and error.


> As Achim pointed out (in open forum, I hope), you *can* get the RF temp
> down, but then the car becomes squirrelly.  Monza is the best example: it
is
> virtually devoid of left turns, so if you jack everything around to make
the
> RF temp lower, the setup is out of whack.  Apparently the RF is *supposed*
> to run ca. 5 deg. hotter than the LF, so that's what you should aim for.

> Wedge can be used to equalize temps/weights, but then the handling becomes
> wildly asymmetrical, loose as a goose on RH turns, say, and plowing like a
> Farmall on LH turns.



> > The front tire bug is pretty easy to fix in most cases.  Doesn't even
seem
> > to happen at all tracks, for example I didn't really see it at
> Silverstone,
> > but OTOH it was quite *** at LeMans Sarthe and at Monza.  But in most
> > cases a little bit of de-wedge, a little bit of rear weight bias, and
> > slightly less camber on the RF than on the LF will fix it and still
gives
> > reasonable handling.  For example I usually end up with about 49.4%
front
> > weight, 49.4% wedge, and 0.10 deg less camber on the RF.  Equal front
> weight
> > and wedge will keep the left side weights equal and just shift weight
from
> > RF to RR, which seems to be what it needs.  Then you de-camber the RF to
> > keep it from getting too loose, plus that also usually lowers the RF
temp
> a
> > tad more.  That won't necessarily get the temperatures exactly equal but
> it
> > equalizes the wear and still gives good handling.  Once I have the wear
> > equalized I don't mess with it any further.



> > > I can think of one thing, and that is the tire temp "bug" imbalance
> > > between LF and RF (a consequence of the NASCAR oval
> > > physics)-that doesn't bother me much tho.

> > >           John DiFool

Larr

Trans-Am Mod

by Larr » Tue, 02 Mar 2004 03:07:14

I don't think you'll see any handling differences.  Both are based on the
same physics engine provided by Papy in the Patch.

-Larry


Larr

Trans-Am Mod

by Larr » Tue, 02 Mar 2004 03:08:22

Personally, I think the PWF Mod is a little more polished in the Graphics design, frame rates, and while it will take me a while to get used to them, the sounds.

-Larry


  If they use the same physics, than why make this mod or use this mod? Sorry if this question sounds dumb, but I'm new to NR2003 (picked it up for $9.99).

    They use the same physics so you shouldn't see any difference in the way the car handles at all!  Keep both Mods - TPTCC is great - they do GT40 etc.

    Wag

      I just dl'd the long-awaited T/A mod.
      Let me qualify this by saying that I'm not a great road racer; I run GPL
      (intermittently) and with a very modest amount of success and I even (gasp)
      try to watch and follow the road racing series in the world.
      Maybe it's me but I don't see a significant difference between the T/A and
      the US Pits latest version of their Touring Car mod.
      The graphics are definately better but I can't see a great deal of
      difference hustling a car through the esses at Watkins Glen betweeen the
      busch mod, tptcc and the new T/A mod.
      Am I wrong?
      I think that all of the programmers involved have done a splendid job just
      in getting the mods available to us. I'm not trying to favor one over the
      other. They all deserve our gratitude (as well as some donations) but I just
      can't see a real difference.
      What's the consensus?
      Timmy

Mitch_

Trans-Am Mod

by Mitch_ » Tue, 02 Mar 2004 03:26:02

And thats the real problem :))


JnPrathe

Trans-Am Mod

by JnPrathe » Tue, 02 Mar 2004 03:54:00

Jan Verschueren Wrote:

That's a common mistake people in general and especially those outside
of the U.S. seem to make. They see "trans am" and see some corvettes
and mustangs and think that the cars should be roughly equal to their
local "sedan/touring car/GT" series. Unfortunately the real Trans Am
cars are anything but. The american Trans Am series is not really
equivalent to any touring car or sedan series around the world
(Australian V8 supercars probably being the closest). They have loads
more power and loads more grip. Of course the cars in the game have
even more than that but that's another topic. At any rate, if these
cars were modeled absolutely spot on for the American Trans Am series,
they would still be too girppy, too powerful, and too fast for people
expecting something similar to their local touring car racing...

John

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FCYTravi

Trans-Am Mod

by FCYTravi » Tue, 02 Mar 2004 03:54:01

Mitch_A Wrote:
Yes, a great treat with all of 10 other players. F1C's net code is so
sad as to be utterly and completely pathetic. What's the friggin' point
of doing a sports car race online when you can't run with more than 15
cars? N2K3 is the only sim that allows accurate online modeling of one
of the biggest challenges in sports-car racing: Dealing with heavy
traffic.

Until F1C gets decent netcode that allows 40+ car grids, it'll remain a
poor stepchild in the eyes of simracers, because simracing is about
competing with human opponents, and F1C's online racing capabilities
are weak to nonexistent.

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FCYTravi

Trans-Am Mod

by FCYTravi » Tue, 02 Mar 2004 04:00:42

To expand upon what Prather mentioned...

The American Trans-Am Series is *not* a touring-car series. The cars
are not in any way based on stock sports car running gear.

Rather, Trans-Am cars and their SCCA GT1 cousins are "funny cars" -
purpose-built racing tube frame chassis with a live rear axle,
fiberglass body that kinda-sorta-maybe looks like a stock car and
(usually) carbureted racing V8. They're attached to the asphalt by
racing suspensions shod in huge, meaty BFGoodrich slick tyres.

IOW, they have huge amounts of grip and ungodly amounts of power.

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Mitch_

Trans-Am Mod

by Mitch_ » Tue, 02 Mar 2004 04:13:29

What did I say again?  Oh yea OTHER than online code :-)

F1C online is hardly non-existent.  Matter of fact I was in a ETCC race at
Donny the other night on F1RST with 22 racers and it was AS stable as
anything Ive done with Papy. Is that the exception and not the rule?  YES!
Do 56k'ers work good on F1RST?  Like I said, no way.  BUT IF YOU MEET THE
CONDITIONS I MENTIONED ITS A GREAT SIMULATION OF SPORTS CAR RACING.  I
havent raced offline for many years with Papy sims yet I find myself having
terrific battles against the AI in F1C/mods.  Im a *** mode kinda guy
so none of what I say applies to roof-riding aids users :-)

Mitch


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Goy Larse

Trans-Am Mod

by Goy Larse » Tue, 02 Mar 2004 04:46:08


> And thats the real problem :))

Why ?

It's not like it's a bad "generic road course physics set", it's quite
enjoyable even if it's not dead accurate, furthermore it's not like
we're stuck with the same physics set for all the mods that will come
out, the .exe was hacked a long time ago, it's the lack of an anti cheat
tool and a matching server app that has made it more sensible to stick
with one of the 4 basic physics set for the time being, work is in
progress in that area as well btw

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy
"goyl at nettx dot no"

http://www.theuspits.com

"A man is only as old as the woman he feels........"
--Groucho Marx--


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