rec.autos.simulators

5 things Papy MUST include in N2003...

Schoone

5 things Papy MUST include in N2003...

by Schoone » Sun, 01 Dec 2002 22:03:43

"Cockpit is more realistic and those that race with it show a greater skill
level. "

Hehe ok Gerry,  I have nothing more to say, if that is you belief then good
luck.



> > Well for the amount of times a crumpled hood comes into being a
determining
> > factor in the outcome of a race then this is a non issue.

> It's got nothing to do with it being a win determining factor, it's very
> definitely a factor in over aggressive driving.

> > If your hood gets
> > crumpled your certainly not in any position to win anyway.

> It still unrealistic and give an advantage, you insist there is no
> advantage. Remember saying that?

> > Yes there is an advantage to get back to the pits as it is easier to
see,

> Now we're getting somewhere.

> > however if it were a real race your spotter would also help you back to
the
> > pits which they don't do in the sim.

> No, there is no 'however' about it, a***pit racer cannot see to do
> this.

> > I think we can leave it at this - if a server enforces the***pit rule
then
> > stick to that,

> That's all we want.

> > otherwise lets use the views we want and stop degrading those
> > that don't use the***pit view.

>***pit is more realistic and those that race with it show a greater
> skill level.

> > It's the elitest attitude of some***pit
> > drivers that causes this argument.

> Well, I'm only interested in facts, and I don't care who's feeling get
> hurt. Don't forget, you started the whole argument in this threat when
> you said:


> > This has been beat to death, there is no advantage of using any view.
Use
> > the one that makes the driver the most comfortable and safe to run near.
> > The view does little to impact the drivers performance or give the many
> > advantage.

> We were just concerned with enforcement.

John Simmon

5 things Papy MUST include in N2003...

by John Simmon » Sun, 01 Dec 2002 22:25:44


says...


> > Can you elaborate on this "unrealistic racing mentality"?

> Yes...

> Because a roof rider can see over a crumpled hood, and is able to drive
> to the pits rather than call a tow track, he/she is likely to be more
> cavalier in his/her driving style.

> Yes/no?

That's a pretty broad statement.  I wouldn't call my driving style
"cavalier" at all, and I don't think you'd find *anyone* in Rascar
that would say otherwise.
John Simmon

5 things Papy MUST include in N2003...

by John Simmon » Sun, 01 Dec 2002 22:56:33


says...


> > Well for the amount of times a crumpled hood comes into being a determining
> > factor in the outcome of a race then this is a non issue.  

> It's got nothing to do with it being a win determining factor, it's very
> definitely a factor in over aggressive driving.

You're so full of shit that your eyes are brown. The view you use is
of no consequuence when judging someone's aggressiveness.

There is no spoon.

He meant to say that it gives you a better chance of making it to the
pits *safely*.

That's his/her own problem to deal with.

That's a complete crock of shit. People that don't use steering,
breaking of shifting help are more skilled that those that do.

Exactly.

But you haven't provided any facts.

Enforcement of what?  I still don't understand why this is suich a
big ***ing deal.  You drive***pit mode all the time, I don't, and
some folks don't use the***pit mode at all.  I'm more interested in
not wrecking or being wrecked than anything else, and if someone
driving in one of the externmal views lessens that possibilty, than
I'm all for it.

The POV setting in NR2K3 just might bring more folks into the***pit
and I agree that it would be a good thing, but I'm not going for a
single second force someone to drive from a view they're not
comfortable with.  If a league wants to force***pit mode, that's
fine, and I certainly won't argue with their ruleset, but then again,
I probably wouldn't race in that league either.  Like I said before,
if RASCAR forced***pit mode, I probably wouldn't race with them
either.

It's a matter of choice, and your statements that people who don't
use the cocckpit view "have an advantage", are "over-aggressive",
"aren't as skilled" are simply the ravings of a lunatic and are
complete and utter bullshit.

Example:  We all know that Eldred ran in tha back last season - he
was almost always the slowest in practice, qual'd in the back, and
raced in the back.  He stated that he drove in***pit mode. I drove
in roof mode sometimes, and***pit mode sometimes.  I was ALWAYS
faster that Eldred.  Was I being over-aggressive?  No - I gave a lot
more than I took in pretty much every race, and I made amazing
recoveries from some really *** slides and spins, and unless I was
taken out of contention by someone else's screw-up, I could usually
be found in the top 5 at most points during any given race.  Was I
more skilled?  I would say yes, but I think it's more of a confidence
thing than anything else, and confidence is a primary factor in
building skill.  Did I have an advantage over all the other drivers?  
Most certainly not.  I won one race (the one at Poconoi that we ran
with no cautions) because I stayed out of trouble and DIDN'T drive so
aggressively as to require two pit stops like everyone else needed.  

Gerry Aitke

5 things Papy MUST include in N2003...

by Gerry Aitke » Mon, 02 Dec 2002 00:14:32


> "Cockpit is more realistic and those that race with it show a greater skill
> level. "

> Hehe ok Gerry,  I have nothing more to say, if that is you belief then good
> luck.

So you must think the opposite then? Roof view is not easier according
to you? Way do people use it then?
Schoone

5 things Papy MUST include in N2003...

by Schoone » Mon, 02 Dec 2002 00:25:16

John,
No point trying to explain an alternate view.  Seems the lines are drawn and
the "elitists feel that it's***pit or nothing and the rest of us and
nothing more than 2 bit wreckers.  I'm done discussing this any further as
the point is lost.  Some feel they are right and must belittle others to
prove their point.  Why people cannot drive using a view they feel
comfortable with I will never know.  If a server is***pit only then that
is fine, but when it comes done to trying to make those using other views
less of a driver then I take issue but from now on I don't care.  To each
his own.



> says...

> > > Well for the amount of times a crumpled hood comes into being a
determining
> > > factor in the outcome of a race then this is a non issue.

> > It's got nothing to do with it being a win determining factor, it's very
> > definitely a factor in over aggressive driving.

> You're so full of shit that your eyes are brown. The view you use is
> of no consequuence when judging someone's aggressiveness.

> > > If your hood gets
> > > crumpled your certainly not in any position to win anyway.

> > It still unrealistic and give an advantage, you insist there is no
> > advantage. Remember saying that?

> There is no spoon.

> > > Yes there is an advantage to get back to the pits as it is easier to
see,

> > Now we're getting somewhere.

> He meant to say that it gives you a better chance of making it to the
> pits *safely*.

> > > however if it were a real race your spotter would also help you back
to the
> > > pits which they don't do in the sim.

> > No, there is no 'however' about it, a***pit racer cannot see to do
> > this.

> That's his/her own problem to deal with.

> > > I think we can leave it at this - if a server enforces the***pit
rule then
> > > stick to that,

> > That's all we want.

> > > otherwise lets use the views we want and stop degrading those
> > > that don't use the***pit view.

> >***pit is more realistic and those that race with it show a greater
> > skill level.

> That's a complete crock of shit. People that don't use steering,
> breaking of shifting help are more skilled that those that do.

> > > It's the elitest attitude of some***pit
> > > drivers that causes this argument.

> Exactly.

> > Well, I'm only interested in facts

> But you haven't provided any facts.

> > We were just concerned with enforcement.

> Enforcement of what?  I still don't understand why this is suich a
> big ***ing deal.  You drive***pit mode all the time, I don't, and
> some folks don't use the***pit mode at all.  I'm more interested in
> not wrecking or being wrecked than anything else, and if someone
> driving in one of the externmal views lessens that possibilty, than
> I'm all for it.

> The POV setting in NR2K3 just might bring more folks into the***pit
> and I agree that it would be a good thing, but I'm not going for a
> single second force someone to drive from a view they're not
> comfortable with.  If a league wants to force***pit mode, that's
> fine, and I certainly won't argue with their ruleset, but then again,
> I probably wouldn't race in that league either.  Like I said before,
> if RASCAR forced***pit mode, I probably wouldn't race with them
> either.

> It's a matter of choice, and your statements that people who don't
> use the cocckpit view "have an advantage", are "over-aggressive",
> "aren't as skilled" are simply the ravings of a lunatic and are
> complete and utter bullshit.

> Example:  We all know that Eldred ran in tha back last season - he
> was almost always the slowest in practice, qual'd in the back, and
> raced in the back.  He stated that he drove in***pit mode. I drove
> in roof mode sometimes, and***pit mode sometimes.  I was ALWAYS
> faster that Eldred.  Was I being over-aggressive?  No - I gave a lot
> more than I took in pretty much every race, and I made amazing
> recoveries from some really *** slides and spins, and unless I was
> taken out of contention by someone else's screw-up, I could usually
> be found in the top 5 at most points during any given race.  Was I
> more skilled?  I would say yes, but I think it's more of a confidence
> thing than anything else, and confidence is a primary factor in
> building skill.  Did I have an advantage over all the other drivers?
> Most certainly not.  I won one race (the one at Poconoi that we ran
> with no cautions) because I stayed out of trouble and DIDN'T drive so
> aggressively as to require two pit stops like everyone else needed.

Schoone

5 things Papy MUST include in N2003...

by Schoone » Mon, 02 Dec 2002 00:27:11

It's not easier, it's different and a personal choice in how they get the
most fun and feel out of the sim.  End of story.  I'm not going to argue
this any more.  I use roof view because to me it feels more realistic, not
because it's easier or gives me some advantage.  Out of all the views I
prefer it that's it.



> > "Cockpit is more realistic and those that race with it show a greater
skill
> > level. "

> > Hehe ok Gerry,  I have nothing more to say, if that is you belief then
good
> > luck.

> So you must think the opposite then? Roof view is not easier according
> to you? Way do people use it then?

Gerry Aitke

5 things Papy MUST include in N2003...

by Gerry Aitke » Mon, 02 Dec 2002 00:56:23


> It's not easier, it's different and a personal choice in how they get the
> most fun and feel out of the sim.  End of story.  I'm not going to argue
> this any more.  I use roof view because to me it feels more realistic, not
> because it's easier or gives me some advantage.  Out of all the views I
> prefer it that's it.

Are you faster in roof view? In a real car is the view from the driving
seat anything like roof view?
Dan Belch

5 things Papy MUST include in N2003...

by Dan Belch » Mon, 02 Dec 2002 02:18:29

I'm in college.  It takes like 5 minutes just to make room in my dorm to set up
my wheel and pedals.  It's too much of a pain in the ass to practice often.  ;)

And just to throw 2 more of my cents into this argument, I'll say right now
there's no way the roof view is more realistic than the***pit view.  That's
not the reason I drive there.  I just feel confused and blind in the***pit
and have a bad habit of hitting things.  I drove last night at Indy in the
***pit view.  Yeah, I managed to cause a 20 car pileup on the very first
lap...  On the other hand, I drove last week from the roof view and won my
league race at Talladega.  Yes, I was involved in a wreck, but it wasn't my
fault.  The car I was passing decided it was a good idea to run on the apron...
(sigh)

-----------------------------------------
Dan Belcher
Webmaster,
http://www.racesimcentral.net/

JM

5 things Papy MUST include in N2003...

by JM » Mon, 02 Dec 2002 03:24:11


Forced***pit view is one of the columns in the race list in NR2002,
between F and C in the column list.  Maybe you didn't keep your eye on the
ball, rather than Papyrus dropping it?

Cheers
John

Nick

5 things Papy MUST include in N2003...

by Nick » Mon, 02 Dec 2002 03:24:44



> > No.
> That's just the answer that best suits your case, rather than the truth.

No...
Nick

5 things Papy MUST include in N2003...

by Nick » Mon, 02 Dec 2002 03:27:57


In a real car is the view from the driving seat anything like the***pit
view?

The answer to both is no.

Nick

5 things Papy MUST include in N2003...

by Nick » Mon, 02 Dec 2002 03:28:10


Wow, you left both these statements right next to each other in that post.
Kinda sums up the argument nicely... :-)

Mike Whit

5 things Papy MUST include in N2003...

by Mike Whit » Mon, 02 Dec 2002 03:35:22


Had Papy included the option to force the outside view, you would probably
still see whining, but from the other camp.

Eldre

5 things Papy MUST include in N2003...

by Eldre » Mon, 02 Dec 2002 04:17:39


Priorities, man...stop bowling - that will give you time to practice
driving...<g>

Eldred
--
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
GPLRank:+6.19
N2002 Rank:+18.91

Never argue with an idiot.  He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
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