rec.autos.simulators

Show-off - shouldn't you be *studying*, or something?
Nice shooting. :-)

Eldred
--
Homepage - http://www.racesimcentral.net/~epickett
GPLRank:+6.19
N2002 Rank:+18.91

Never argue with an idiot.  He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

</IRONY>

What the *** are you talking about? Please don't go outside alone, or go
within 20 feet of any sharp implements. You subconscious mind might make you
stick them into yourself.

The argument is that the***pit view is no more realistic than the roof
cam. I don't think anybody uses the chase cam anyway.

Arcade damage will generally cause people to be more cavalier, while
realistic will encourage safer driving. Your silly
head-out-the-sun-roof-view does the same thing. Without realizing it you
will drive with less caution than a***pit view driver. You do this
because your view gives you a vision advantage not afforded by***pit
view. This encourages you to keep your foot in longer and to drive
closer because of your better vision to the front and sides.

The harder and closer you drive, the greater the likelihood of contact.
This is especially true in on-line races where warp is a constant
threat.

-Larry

That is true.

It is not silly...

No it doesn't. A collision will create just as much damage and time penalty
regardless of viewpoint.

No I wont. I drive with too much caution in semi-league races or races
involving like-minded individuals (like RASCAR), where there will be no
wreckers, because I don't want to wreck anybody else and ruin their race for
them.

It allows you to see more clearly, yes, which makes you a *safer* driver in
my opinion. Being higher up, you can judge distance a little more accurately
than the lower***pit view.

That is untrue. Roof cam doesn't let you see through smoke, or let you
predict any more accurately where a car is going to be in 2 seconds' time.
It is harder to see cars immediately in front of you get a little loose. And
you cannot use the look left/right keys/buttons while using the roof cam, so
your point about greater lateral awareness is untrue. Admittedly, you have
to press a key to look left/right in***pit view, but that is still better
than not being able to do it at all.

That is true, but I/we don't drive harder and closer because of our
viewpoint. I try to be a considerate driver, and especially in semi-league
races like RASCAR, sometimes a passing opportunity presents itself but I
don't take it, for fear of causing an incident if I***up. Only if an
opportunity of high probability occurs will I try the move. I am more
agressive when racing in real life because I can feel the limits of grip a
lot better, and I have more confidence throwing the car/kart in underneath
somebody else.

Oh, and by the way, don't talk down to me like I am a little kid just
because you have an elitist opinion, which classes me as below you because I
use a different camera view. I am not arguing that roof cam is better than
***pit view, I am just arguing that they are equal. I am trying to make you
understand this. Subconsciously I know it is a waste of effort, because you
are the type of person who will not change their viewpoint in the face of
evidence to the contrary; in fact, you will disregard the evidence as being
untrue simply because it contradicts your viewpoint. No offence intended, by
the way. It's a real dumb subject to make enemies over.

It is the most realistic view in the sim because it tries to simulate what a
real NASCAR driver sees, you are correct. The problem is how you define
realistic. If your realism is based around seeing what a NASCAR driver sees,
hearing what they hear, then you will believe the***pit view is more
realistic. Nobody will argue. If, on the other hand, you believe realism to
be giving as much of a window on the world as possible, to make it easier to
judge exactly what the car is doing at any particular moment, to be able to
add some depth perception to a display which naturally removes it (ie
viewing on a monitor without 3D glasses), then the roof cam is more
realistic.

The fundamental qualities of a racing driver are the ability to look ahead,
to not concentrate on what the car is doing now, but what it will be doing
in a few seconds' time. To be able to judge exactly where you will reach the
edge of the track if you start applying the power now. To preempt what the
car will do, where it will end up if you alter your inputs at this moment in
time. It's all about predicting the future. If you apply the power too late,
you will be slow out of the corner, not using as much of the track as you
could have. If you apply it too early, you will run out over the kerbs and
onto the grass. Some people (in fact, most people who drive sims and think
they are great racing drivers), learn visually when to hit the throttle out
of turns in terms of trackside objects or markings in the road. Some don't
realise that they are running bad lines through corners until they see a
replay analyser, because a monitor can't give that kind of depth perception
needed to drive properly. A sim racer encountering a new track will either
be very slow to begin with, or spin off at all the corners, because they
have to *learn* the layout of the track; they can't *see* it as they go. A
real race driver will be able to lap relatively quickly the first time out,
because they can calculate on the fly using their visual input.

To emulate this depth perception in the game (thereby making it more
realistic), you need to raise the camera a little, but still keep it locked
to the car (after all, you don't want to lose the visual input of what the
car is doing in terms of sliding, etc).

This point is just as important a factor in the problem with racing sims as
the g-force argument of not being able to feel the car, in my opinion. I
have yet to see what the E3D glasses do to help, but results are encouraging
from what I have heard.

So the***pit view is realistic in some respects, the roof cam is realistic
in others, and a view which combined the realism of both (which is
impossible unless you are simulating truck racing) would be the most
realistic view available.

What was it we were talking about??
;)

<SIGH>

This 30" one is just too big. :)

I will never be able to race on a monitor again after moving up to a
DLP projector.  Still not much to write home about in terms of depth
perception, but bigger IS better.  With an 8 foot screen, things take
on a certain lifelike, immersive quality.  Too bad my racing has
little to show for it.

I'd like to try some 3d goggles, but I dont think the refresh from the
proj. is fast enough.

I've been flying a lot of IL-2 lately, but may have to add the F1
title to my xmas list so I can check out this GTR mod.

cheers,
Gerald