rec.autos.simulators

I got Sof2 yesterday. When I tried to install it on my high-end PC at
work, the installer would always stop making any progress after inserting
the second CD. When I installed it at home, the game ran, but it then
took half an hour of changing every possible graphics option until I got
a barely playable frame rate. This is on a PC which is well above the
minimum spec. Despite the tens of tweakable graphics options, only one
made any difference to the frame rate. And the graphics in some respects
are inferior to the original SoF.

--
Andrew Gillett      http://www.racesimcentral.net/;   ICQ: See homepage

US videogame release dates at:
http://www.racesimcentral.net/

It's not about TRYING to be better or more grown up, but simply BEING better and grown up. PCs do WAY more things consoles can't even BEGIN to DREAM of doing. PCs ARE better and more grown up than their ugly red-headed stepsibling consoles.

No, Atari makes Atari; Commodore made Amigas (and Commodore 64s).

<chuckle> "Family computer" my ass; Nintendos don't even have keyboards--uh...yea, some family computer that is! The Atari 400/800 easily beat Nintendos in terms of family computing simply because they HAD keyboards.

Incorrect. elements of the original atari team were involved in the
development of the amiga.  "same people" not "same company"

Let's not forget that in terms of computer games, the PC had nothing on
other computers, or consoles, until DOOM was released.  Every other game up  
until that point was broadly the same on all platforms, except the PC.  
Until DOOM, PC gamers were stuck with tat like "Jane of the Jungle" and
other sub marioworld platform scrollers.

I got my first ZX Spectrum in 1981, since then, I've had three more
speccy's, a Commodore 64, a SNES (super famicom), playstation (PSX), Atari
Lynx, an Amiga 1200, and currently a PC.  There is nothing in PC games that
isn't already in "console" games.  I don't see the PC as a superior ***
machine because I can run Excel 2000 or Visual Studio 6 on it.  It's a much
more versatile tool than my PSX, and I'll admit my current PC is better at
games than the PSX, but my old Cyrix 200 16mb system I had when I bought my
PSX was nowhere near as good as the PSX.

PC "better" than console? Maybe so, if you spend about 3x the cost of the
console on the PC.  If we're comparing apples and oranges, let's at least
weigh them out the same.

cheers
John

<shrug> "Commodore" isn't "Atari".

Uh, Doom was hardly the game to spark PC game superiority. Perhaps you heard of Wolfenstein 3D? And this is just referring to the beginning of mainstream 3D on the PC; 2D games were a bit hit during the previous decade!

Where is Thief for consoles? Oh, right, it doesn't exist. <snicker>

Silly JM, Cyrix ***isn't better than ANYTHING (except, perhaps, other Cyrix crap). Regardless, like I said, the consoles have the lead for a SHORT while before the PC overtakes them and leaves them in the dust for YEARS.

<shrug> It's still all fruit. PCs do far more than consoles, while they don't cost that much more (and don't forget the TV price for consoles!).

Unless you count adventure games, of course.

Fair enough.

I disagree. First of all, Amiga had hardly any Japanese games.
Japanese games are usually considered to be the strength of consoles
(if you are into that kind of games). Amiga had games only from Europe
and America. People are even complaining XBox games are too much like
PC games only because it doesn't have that much Japanese support.

The games people usually remember warmly from Amiga were mostly
PC-type games, like various simulations (Falcon AT, Carrier Command or
Starglider 2 anyone?), RPGs like Dungeon Master, etc. Amiga had more
2D shooters and platform jumping games than PC, but

a) they were never Japanese, like they usually are on consoles
b) quite a big part of them were made available also for PC, like
Xenon 1-2, Magic Pockets, Lethal Weapon, Speedball 1-2, Chaos Engine
etc.

When Amiga *** was starting to dry up, at least for me it felt much
more natural to move from Amiga *** to PC *** than to console
***. PC had much more of the kind of stuff that IMHO made Amiga
*** worth it. I think the similarity of Amiga and PC *** mostly
stems from the fact that both have mostly American and European games
and hardly any Japanese titles.

Amiga had some more (European) 2D action games than PC, though. Too
bad most of them sucked and were made by some hackers in their
freetime. If you were into high quality 2D shooters or platform games,
you had to have a Super Nintendo or Sega Genesis anyway, Amiga didn't
really cut it compared to their 2D action games.

Long before Doom, PC was the king of all kinds of simulations, western
RPGs, adventure games etc. Wolfenstein3D was probably the first PC
game that showed PC can offer even action games that rival or even
surpass console action games. But since those times consoles have
again become the kings of action games (and only action games, IMHO).

I agree - RPGs and Strategy were the main influence for me, but DOOM was
also part of it.

The other software product that made a big difference was Windows 95.  
Win 3.1 was intolerable.

It was probably '97-'98 before PCs could do smooth arcade games, and by
then the time of the Amiga was long gone.

Gerry Quinn                                  
--
http://www.racesimcentral.net/
Entertainment software for Windows
Puzzles, Strategy Games, Kaleidoscope Screensaver
Download evaluation versions free - no time limits

The PC arcade games from the late 80s and early 90s (thinking of
Commander Keen in particular) were smoother than any PC game from the
Windows era (since the latter have to live with preemptive
multitasking).

--

Around Sun, 02 Jun 2002 16:07:40 GMT, "Rainer Deyke"

Pretty obvious that John Carmack programmed Commander Keen, huh?
Looked great and ran fast... :-)
--
Alex Pavloff - www.pavloff.net

Huh? Console action games pale in comparison to PC action games--unless you're referring to beat-em-up fighting games <yawn>. Action (typically FPSes) are king on PC.

Yep it was Windows 95 that made the PC bigger with games, 3.1 was to hard
for mr & mrs Jones
to set up games on, also the soundcard was the thing that made the PC a game
system
& we all know it was SB, even if they were not the first soundcard for the
PC.
Don't for get Commodore were big in PC also.....

Gary C.
[Ex Commodore staff member, Amiga User Support Australia]

Shrug nothing, you were wrong, simple as that.

Yes, I've heard of Wolf3d, but Wolf3d was not the catalyst for the PC
*** revolution, Doom was. That is the fact of the matter. Before then
(and still today) 2d games were, in their entirety, shite on the PC.  
Christ, the PC didn't even have hardware sprites, it stood no chance vs
consoles and amigas pre 3d era.

Thief is a great game.  Why should it be available for consoles? It barely
sold any copies on the PC.  There's nothing in Thief that couldn't be done
in a console, and there are console stealth based games (Tenchu for one,
but it's no thief).

OK, now we've established that you're ingorant as well as ill informed.  
Fact is the best 3d card out when I got my first PC was the Orchid
Righteous (voodoo1).  The XBox and PS2 both look capable of presenting
graphics just as well as my geforce2 based card in this PC.  This is where
you tell me that the XBox and PS2 have nothing on the top end geforce4
cards, so let me save you the bother by reminding you that the card alone
costs more than either entire console (excepting the cheap version coming
out, which only costs slightly less than an XBox- bargain!)

Of course I forget the cost of my TV, I didn't buy it to play games on,
that's just an added bonus.  You cannot buy a new PC today for the same
money as a PS2 or XBox that will play equivalent games to the same standard
(eg GTA3).  As I said, even though you have a talent for ignoring the facts
laid before you, I'll repeat.  My PC is a much better piece of equipment
than any current console, because I use it for more than games.  I also
accept that it cost me a hell of a lot more money than an XBox.  If I
purely wanted to play games, and had no other consideration, a 200 console
is a much better proposition than a 500 PC.

You'll be telling me the PC is a great games PC because you can play the
Sims on it, next.

Feel free to join in the discussion when you have some actual facts to back
up your opinion.

cheers
John

I don't, as it happens.  Monkey Island and Day of the Tentacle did not make
the PC a viable *** option in 1991.

cheers
John

There was nothing on the PC before doom that wasn't done either as well,
individually, or far, far better, on the alternative computing platforms
and consoles.  Gunship on the Amiga was just as good as the PC version.  
RType on the PC? Sonic? Street Fighter 2? Ah well...
I said it in another reply, Wolf3d was not popular, it took DOOM to
kickstart the proper PC *** industry that we know today.  I know, I was
there at the time, I saw it all happen, played Doom on a 386dx40 and
everything :-)

cheers
John