rec.autos.simulators

GTR Demo impressions

eppy

GTR Demo impressions

by eppy » Mon, 03 May 2004 07:33:48

Hi,

As the word is now "on the street", I suspect that the GTR "press" demo will
be impossible to pull back, even when they pull it from the server. Anyway,
doing justice to being a press version, here's my review after a few hours..

Graphics are great! I actually prefer them to the TRD2 demos, even though
they are not (yet) so advanced. To me, the TRD2 graphics are too glossy -
not realistic. The TRD2 graphics are "in your face", whilst the GTR graphics
are just very good for the job.

The sound is great - on par with TRD2.

There are two cars and one track (SPA) in the demo. As for the physics -
very good, but maybe some car setup tweaking is required before a second
opinion is given. I suspect that the car setup (as opposed to physics) has
been dumbed down for the press! Both cars are set up to understeer, making
them quite easy to drive, even in the most realistic mode with all the
driver aids disabled. However, as soon as I light up the rear tyres with too
much power, it is instant spin city in anything over first gear, regardless
of how quick I throw on the opposite lock. To me, this is the most
frustrating aspect of driving the default setups. There is no way that I can
trail brake into corners, or power slide out. I can't even set up a neutral
drift. The only way to drive is smoothly with touch of understeer around the
corners, and no sliding on the exits. This gets a bit boring after a while,
and doesn't make for the GPL/LFS type of control that I was hoping for.
Again, to be fair, I'm no guru at car setups - hopefully someone can help
out here with a better setup.

Now for some more Pros. The force feedback (on my Momo Force) is absolutely
brilliant! It gives me so much more feel for what is happening, quite
literally. You notice it the moment you exit the pit garage for the first
time, as you feel the engine throbbing. The effects over the ripple strips
and sand traps is also totally realistic.

The z axis physics are the best I have come across. You can really feel the
car get light over crests and bump its way over curbs. The FF also helps
here.

I didn't notice any tyre wear, or any aspect of the car warming up. For the
first couple of laps, I put the understeer (and lack of braking force) down
to cold tyres and brakes, but things didnt' seem to change after 20 laps. On
the subject of braking - the default setup has braking force set to 100%,
but its almost impossible to lock up the brakes, except at a dead crawl. As
such, (again noting the default setup), I find that its a very binary sim -
mostly full throttle and full brakes all the time - not so great.

One last negative - again on the handling. The sim doesn't seem to react to
weight transfer very realistically. In order to get around the understeer
problem, I deliberately tried to unbalance the car into the slower corners
by turning the wrong way for a moment then throwing the car into the corner,
but it was still understeering. Even slaloming it in 6th gear on the
straight produces mild understeer, or a sudden, uncontrollable spin.

In summary - I think the sim is fantastic and has a lot of potential - I
can't wait to try again with a decent car setup.

Tim

Marc Collin

GTR Demo impressions

by Marc Collin » Mon, 03 May 2004 08:36:35

Go into the set-up and remove the traction control and anti-lock braking
aids...you won't have a problem with "natural" car control after that.

Marc


eppy

GTR Demo impressions

by eppy » Mon, 03 May 2004 09:29:28

Thanks for the tip Marc, but I did that before my first drive :-)

They are set to "off" there, and also when I go into the 2 pages of car
setup...

Maybe I'm just used to the LX6 in LFS...

Tim


> Go into the set-up and remove the traction control and anti-lock braking
> aids...you won't have a problem with "natural" car control after that.

> Marc



> > Hi,

> > As the word is now "on the street", I suspect that the GTR "press" demo
> will
> > be impossible to pull back, even when they pull it from the server.
> Anyway,
> > doing justice to being a press version, here's my review after a few
> hours..

> > Graphics are great! I actually prefer them to the TRD2 demos, even
though
> > they are not (yet) so advanced. To me, the TRD2 graphics are too
glossy -
> > not realistic. The TRD2 graphics are "in your face", whilst the GTR
> graphics
> > are just very good for the job.

> > The sound is great - on par with TRD2.

> > There are two cars and one track (SPA) in the demo. As for the physics -
> > very good, but maybe some car setup tweaking is required before a second
> > opinion is given. I suspect that the car setup (as opposed to physics)
has
> > been dumbed down for the press! Both cars are set up to understeer,
making
> > them quite easy to drive, even in the most realistic mode with all the
> > driver aids disabled. However, as soon as I light up the rear tyres with
> too
> > much power, it is instant spin city in anything over first gear,
> regardless
> > of how quick I throw on the opposite lock. To me, this is the most
> > frustrating aspect of driving the default setups. There is no way that I
> can
> > trail brake into corners, or power slide out. I can't even set up a
> neutral
> > drift. The only way to drive is smoothly with touch of understeer around
> the
> > corners, and no sliding on the exits. This gets a bit boring after a
> while,
> > and doesn't make for the GPL/LFS type of control that I was hoping for.
> > Again, to be fair, I'm no guru at car setups - hopefully someone can
help
> > out here with a better setup.

> > Now for some more Pros. The force feedback (on my Momo Force) is
> absolutely
> > brilliant! It gives me so much more feel for what is happening, quite
> > literally. You notice it the moment you exit the pit garage for the
first
> > time, as you feel the engine throbbing. The effects over the ripple
strips
> > and sand traps is also totally realistic.

> > The z axis physics are the best I have come across. You can really feel
> the
> > car get light over crests and bump its way over curbs. The FF also helps
> > here.

> > I didn't notice any tyre wear, or any aspect of the car warming up. For
> the
> > first couple of laps, I put the understeer (and lack of braking force)
> down
> > to cold tyres and brakes, but things didnt' seem to change after 20
laps.
> On
> > the subject of braking - the default setup has braking force set to
100%,
> > but its almost impossible to lock up the brakes, except at a dead crawl.
> As
> > such, (again noting the default setup), I find that its a very binary
> sim -
> > mostly full throttle and full brakes all the time - not so great.

> > One last negative - again on the handling. The sim doesn't seem to react
> to
> > weight transfer very realistically. In order to get around the
understeer
> > problem, I deliberately tried to unbalance the car into the slower
corners
> > by turning the wrong way for a moment then throwing the car into the
> corner,
> > but it was still understeering. Even slaloming it in 6th gear on the
> > straight produces mild understeer, or a sudden, uncontrollable spin.

> > In summary - I think the sim is fantastic and has a lot of potential - I
> > can't wait to try again with a decent car setup.

> > Tim

Mitch_

GTR Demo impressions

by Mitch_ » Mon, 03 May 2004 11:09:15

I'd like to have more audio feedback from the rear tires.  F1C has always
been sorely lacking in this dept and GTR seems to suffer also.  By the time
I realize Im loosing traction in the rear Im usually around already.  In
NR2003 I can REALLY tell what the rear end is doing just by my rear
speakers.

Mitch

Eric Leblan

GTR Demo impressions

by Eric Leblan » Mon, 03 May 2004 11:43:24

Same thought here, need more tire sounds feedback

EL


Damien Evan

GTR Demo impressions

by Damien Evan » Mon, 03 May 2004 11:43:36

You can't hear anything in real life so I guess they were going for realism.
The FF tells you everything you need to know in this demo.  There's never
been a better reason to buy a FF wheel.

Eric Leblan

GTR Demo impressions

by Eric Leblan » Mon, 03 May 2004 12:14:27

We are not in real life, that is why i beleive, tire sound is a must. When
you crash do you get hurt? no, then it is unrealistic :-)

There is some input has a real driver you get when you are in a race car
that you will never get in a sim, and i beleive that is why you need to put
some additionnel feature to compensate.

EL


JP

GTR Demo impressions

by JP » Mon, 03 May 2004 12:19:38


    Lol, yeah, right.....whew.

Joe Blo

GTR Demo impressions

by Joe Blo » Mon, 03 May 2004 13:35:55

My first impression was also on balance quite positive.

The graphics are very good. I like the feel of the FF on the curbs.

Some areas of improvement are lack of brake lockup even with anti-lock
disabled makes it hard to brake at the limit. I get the impression that the
brake anti-lock is always on even if you disable it.

I agree with the previous comments that the lack of tire noise is a problem
as FF by itself is not enough by itself.

Also, I second the comment about the lack of effect of running wide onto the
grass. You don't seem to loose enough grip in this situation.

But all in all a very promising demo and based on it, a title I will
definitely pick up when it becomes available.


Damien Evan

GTR Demo impressions

by Damien Evan » Mon, 03 May 2004 14:14:19

You can't win - Simbin included fake tyre squeal sounds in the GTR 2002 mod
and a lot of people complained that it was unrealistic because slicks don't
sqeal....can't please everybody I guess...Personally, I don't have any
problem at all telling what the back end is up to in this demo.

Dave Henri

GTR Demo impressions

by Dave Henri » Mon, 03 May 2004 14:36:06



  Has anyone peeked at the .plr file?   wanna guess what this line does?

Doug Temp="1.00000" // Doug's Special Variable

:)
dave henrie

Jason Moy

GTR Demo impressions

by Jason Moy » Mon, 03 May 2004 14:35:58


>I'd like to have more audio feedback from the rear tires.  F1C has always
>been sorely lacking in this dept and GTR seems to suffer also.  By the time
>I realize Im loosing traction in the rear Im usually around already.  In
>NR2003 I can REALLY tell what the rear end is doing just by my rear
>speakers.

I've never had a problem with the tire sound in the F1 titles, but
yeah, it's pretty damn hard to tell what the tires are doing in this
demo.  The only way I can tell I've locked the brakes is by seeing
smoke in the rear view mirror (obviously the car handling is a big tip
off, but it's nice to know you have the brakes locked before you move
the wheel).

Jason

Jason Moy

GTR Demo impressions

by Jason Moy » Mon, 03 May 2004 14:53:38

On Sun, 02 May 2004 00:36:06 -0500, Dave Henrie


>  Has anyone peeked at the .plr file?   wanna guess what this line does?

>Doug Temp="1.00000" // Doug's Special Variable

Been wondering what that one does myself.

Jason

cron

GTR Demo impressions

by cron » Mon, 03 May 2004 15:04:44


> > I'd like to have more audio feedback from the rear tires.  F1C has always
> > been sorely lacking in this dept and GTR seems to suffer also.  By the
>  time
> > I realize Im loosing traction in the rear Im usually around already.  In
> > NR2003 I can REALLY tell what the rear end is doing just by my rear
> > speakers.

> You can't hear anything in real life so I guess they were going for realism.
> The FF tells you everything you need to know in this demo.  There's never
> been a better reason to buy a FF wheel.

Put it back in your pants.
Mitch_

GTR Demo impressions

by Mitch_ » Mon, 03 May 2004 15:16:28

First, Im not complaining.  Suggesting..

We don't have "seat of the pants" feel so the way that best describes what
the tires are doing is sound.  If people complained about unrealistic sound
in GTR02 it was because it was unrealistic not un-needed ;)   NR2003 tire
sound clearly conveys what the tires are doing.

When did slicks stop making a squeal when pushed too hard?

Mitch



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