rec.autos.simulators

> Youre taking this realism thing waaaay to far.  There's is absolutely NO
WAY
> to simulate G-forces in my recliner (even FF and hydraulics are merely
> effects).  As such the ONLY way to know whats REALLY going on in our
VIRTUAL
> car is by visual or sound ques.  Visual ques can only do so much and dont
> give the type of feedback required to know when your pushing the tires to
> the limit.  Once youre over the limit yea visual or FF is adequate but
then
> it's too late.

> It could be a limitation of the underlying game engine which makes all
this
> talk a mute point.  If it isn't then at the bare minimum it should be user
> selectable.  If you don't want the sound ques on fine turn it off, but at
> the least if it's possible I should be able to turn em on without it being
> called an ARCADE game.

> Do you turn off the tire sounds in NR2003?  Even if you could Id seriously
> doubt that anyone would as it gives such good feedback as to whats going
on
> with the car.

> Mitch

> > I agree it's not a bad thing in a *game*, and I enjoy plenty of light
> weight
> > driving games too.  But Simbin is trying to do an uncompromised sim and
in
> > that case I think it is reasonable to use realistic sounds.

> You can hear what i'm talking and asking about in the game, its just not
> loud enough.

> EL

> >   I'd agree with that; squeal, whatever, there should be some clue
besides
> > visual(which I have yet to believe in the visual examples given in this
> > thread, ie, wheel.  To late by then).

> > > Since i'm a french canadian and sometime struggle with my english if
> > squeal
> > > mean that when you slide, it sounds like you driving your personnal
car
> > and
> > > making skid, then yes you don't hear that nose in a race car even
> sliding
> > > heavily. What you hear in a race car (a good one and not open type)
and
> > feel
> > > is like the *** gripping to the rough surface of the asphalt. Once
> you
> > > get near or past the maximum amount of grip,  you can really feel the
> > force
> > > applied to that side of the car or tire giving away and that is all
mix
> > with
> > > sound and vibration. You can really feel the stiffness being hard
rather
> > > then soft (has you turn forces are applied the shock compression and
> gets
> > > harder, and that hard/soft transition helps you feel you are loosing
the
> > > grip, you may  never be able to add this exact feel to a sim and i
think
> > > sound should compensate for that.

> > > But no they don't "squeal". And the sound (or feel)  i'm talking about
> is
> > > the same when breaking. Papy was able to create in the sound that grip
> > feel
> > > i'm talking about once you loose that grip in (n2k3) the car start to
> skid
> > > or squeal, i don't know if they do in oval racing but at least there
is
> 2
> > > different sounds, and that is more noticable if you oval drive the
game,
> > if
> > > you never did, then go in the game put all sounds to 5% and tire
sounds
> to
> > > 100%, and go around michigan and push it till you wreck it, you'll
> > > understand what i mean.

> > > I would say the only first grip feel sound going/fading away could be
a
> > good
> > > indication you are starting to slide. No need for the extra squeal.

> > > Eric L

> > > >     Thats fine, but I, and others, were responding to the comment
that
> > > > modern slicks don't squeal.  In terms of Nascar in the 80's, they
used
> > > > bias-plys back then, radials now, so apples/oranges.

> > > >      And I first attended races at Bristol, Rockingham, and
C***te
> in
> > > '83
> > > > and there was all kinds of squealing.

> > > > > No doubt you are hearing something but I don't know what it is.
As
> a
> > > > > reminder, this thread is about GTR, not NASCAR.  Not trying to be
a
> > > > > smartass, it's just that stock cars have a whole lot more weight
per
> > > > square
> > > > > inch of contact patch than the sports cars in GTR.  Maybe that's
the
> > > > > difference, I don't know.  I watched a NASCAR race at Atlanta back
> in
> > > the
> > > > > 80's, when it was still a regular oval, and did not hear any
> squealing
> > > > tires
> > > > > there either.  Tires have probably changed a lot since then but
they
> > are
> > > > > still slicks and that's primarily the issue.  With a production
tire
> > you
> > > > get
> > > > > squeal during a hard corner because of the squirming of the tire
> > tread.
> > > > > With no tread there is no squeal until you start to get actual
> > sliding.
> > > > > That's the theory, but I have never heard anything to the contrary
> at
> > > any
> > > > > track or from any race broadcast.

> > > > > The Valvoline runoffs that I mentioned are the national
> championships
> > > for
> > > > > the SCCA, held at Mid-Ohio every year.  Every SCCA class is
> > represented
> > > > > there - showroom stock, various formula cars, production, GT,
sports
> > > > racers,
> > > > > sedan and touring cars.  Lots of slicks.  No tire squeal except
for
> > one
> > > > guy
> > > > > in a Firebird in the American Sedan series who couldn't quite get
it
> > > > > together in the keyhole, and even in his case it looked like he
was
> > > > sliding
> > > > > across the transition from concrete to asphalt.

> > > > > >   Could be(your series examples)  I'm talking about Nascar
series
> > > cars,
> > > > or
> > > > > > for that matter, late models (on pavement), etc.
> > > > > >   And no, I'm not talking about any sound other than tire
squeal.

> > > > > >     Cars that also use slicks.

> <Snip great review>

> I think it's awesome.....well, it could be. The problem is that GTR
> still has the ISI controller lag. It's so annoying to see the wheel on
> the screen  turn at least 0.5 seconds slower as my own wheel.

> I guess the understeer some people complain about is also partly
> caused by the controller lag. The car refuses to steer for at .5
> second in my case after I release the brake, even if I did steer in
> early to compensate for the lag. :-/

> To check if it could be my configuration I fired up GPL, and there
> the response was just as it should be....

> Bummer, I'll not buy GTR.

> Cheers!

> Remco