rec.autos.simulators

Try this one instead & see if it changes your mind back again:

http://www.racesimcentral.net/

Malc.

So we're meant to feel sorry for Michelin just because some former Goodyear
employee is looking for a new job ?
I'm afraid not. They(Michelin) pulled this stunt for a reason that will
become clear in a few weeks time .
They are a greedy, monopolizing POS, just like the rest.

I doubt (b) was a possibility, as I can't imagine Bridgestone made enough
Indy tires for a full field of 20 cars just for the hell of it.  Would the
fans accept (c)?  Would that be any better?

Nevertheless, I agree that the FIA should have bent, even considering the
"sporting" argument.  The spirit of sporting competition is to test a full
field of competitors with an appropriately challenging task.

Even myself as a competitor in technical sports requiring skills, a thorough
understanding of the course, and top-level equipment (whitewater slalom
kayaking, mountain biking) my competitor's instinct still does not side with
Mosely and the FIA.  We have moved gates and altered a line here or there in
our races, even though the top guy was hitting it without problem.  If the
top guy could nail the line every time even with the difficult course, or
because he had a better boat/bike, in the end he still blew us all away
after we tweaked a gate or two.  Course designers at the World Cup level of
skiing and boating have also moved gates, on the day of a race and after
practice, so rules even at the international level are malleable.  The
biggest protests in World Cup slalom are usually not because a gate was
moved, but rather because a gate *wasn't* moved and in the end half the
field of elite athletes couldn't complete the course.

It's not a perfect analogy as the Indy course has been there for years and
has been successfully negotiated by all runners previously, however the
track surface has changed.  This is similar to a change in water level on a
well known river, erosion ditches on the Mammoth MTB downhill or different
snow conditions on the Hannenkam.  No one is talking here about bringing
slalom skis to a downhill race, bringing a city bike to a MTB downhill or a
*** raft to a whitewater slalom.  Michelin didn't bring passenger cars to
the Formula One race (nevertheless I still fault them for not looking
adequately into the consequence of the resurface and not bringing a proper
fall-back tire and don't agree if they get off without any penalty).

Would the extra braking for the chicane have been dangerous, as Mosely
claims?  I think the teams were in the best position to judge that.  As was
noted in the articles, they are well aware of the liability issues and
probably offered the most reasonable and well-considered alternative. And
the precendent has already been set with last-minute course and/or procedure
changes in F1 in the last decade, so Mosely and the FIA are hypocrites.

Stephen

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I might be less calm about the whole thing if I'd flown halfway across the
States to see it. But then I doubt I'd walk to the end of my street to get
deafened, sunburnt, and bored after the first lap, let alone fly :-)

Andrew McP  

Agree 100%. The very sad part about this entire debacle is that due to Speed
Channel's broadcasts F1 had been making some progress with the US fans.
Especially this year with the closer racing. All that it now lost. The
sadder thing is that I just shod mine and my wife's cars with new, and
expensive Michelin tires. Damn..................:-) I could have bought 8
16" Yokohamas, Goodyears or even Firestones at almost half the
price............kick self in ass..........

Ed

http://www.motorsport.com/news/article.asp?ID=189438&FS=F1

It's inconsevable that Jean Todt wasn't invited/interested to the same
discussions as the Bridgestone minows, but it gives him plausible
denyability.

Max and Ferrari were 100% right in my opinion AND 100% wrong.  They won
the battle, got max points by following the letter of the rules, now F1
and Ferrari sales will suffer because of it.

They won the battle but lost the war.

Take them back to the retailer you purchased them from and claim that you
feel that they are unsafe, rough-riding, too black - whatever.... just take
them back. I did. Pro-rated return of money for 2 months use and I still had
some left over after purchasing 4 new Bridgestones. Told the dude straight
up why I was returning them too. I live in Neckville, so the tire guy was
clueless, but he did refund my money and fix me up with the 'Stones.

--
TigBits
(o)Y(o)

           Not at all.  Sounds like the guy is trying to get a job at
Michelin.  Michelin messed up trying to make a faster tire than
Bridgestone and didn't have a backup which could have been used with an
appropriate penalty.  So they threatened to***up the race (and then
did so) is an effort to get the FIA to totally cancel out _Michelin's_
mistake by installing a chicane or running the event not for points.
To put on the race under either of those conditions would have been
responding to blackmail.

         The 6 guys on Bridgestones fully deserved to win places 1-6.
They had better "cars".  Jordon/Minardi shouldn't be embarrased, their
heads should be high.  The Michelin guys _should_ have been fighting
for seventh-back. Anything else would have been a travesty.

Trust me, the drivers probably all wanted to drive until the last second
before some team manager told them on the radio to enter the pits at the end
of the formation lap.

I mean they are F1 drivers.  Why wouldn't they want to race each time they
can?  I sure wouldn't waste any chance I have to race in F1!   It's not like
they will all race in F1 for decades.

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...

"The show must go on"

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...

"Oh look here's the BAR team already flying out the track while the race is
still on"

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...

Thank god there are still people there balancing between the desire of
everybody to have a faster car, and safety.  A good balance is needed, so we
don't go back to 1994, but at the same time we can't be too fearful, or else
the debacle of last week happens.

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...

    Well, if Bridgestone had info about U.S. roads, they have demonstrated,
that even in the event where it might save lives, they would not be prepared
to share that info. Competitive edge is far more important of course!

    Though ferrari had no say ultimately, Todt made it clear he would not
agree to any of the proposals that provided a genuine race. That is biting
the hand that feeds you. That represents ferrari as a bunch of wimps that
will take a win any way they can get it - well, I wouldn't even call it a
"win" - they simply got the points. But they were happy to be crapping all
over their own bread and butter in the process!