Gee, Michelin will be knocking down your door tomorrow. You just go and
take a quick look at the track and tell them what compound/construction to
use. Maybe you can give them a hand selling off all that now obsolete
computer/analysis equiptment they forked out millions for too?
PLONK!
>>> And Ferrari were not involved in the discussion, as Williams have
>>> confirmed.
>> However, it HAS been reported that 9 of the 10 teams(or 10 of 11, I'm too
>> rushed to look it up) had supported a chicane. Since ALL teams votes
>> were
>> needed to make the chane, the fact no chicane went up can 'partially' be
>> attributed to Ferrari. Remember, they also did not want to allow Paul
>> Stoddard to run his 2004 spec machinery at Australia. One could argue
>> they
>> are being consistant. Or one could argue they are supporting their
>> sponsors. Or one could argue they are fighting for every point.
>> dh
> Todt is such a smartarse moron, he suggested the Michelin runners could
> use the pit lane each lap - imagine asking this idiot what his oipinion
> is? Every proposal other than the chicane for all runners was idiotic -
> the fans would have probably been more pissed off to have their
> intelligence insulted. Most suggestions implied the fans would think they
> were getting the real deal - laughable nonsense. The FIA and Todt are a
> bunch of arseholes!
Yup - and while we're at it, can Michelin change the configuration of all
tracks they race on so they can get an advantage? And how about a 50bhp
reduction in Ferrari's engine output - hey, why not, Michelin write the
rules, and everyone that play by the rules - like Bridgestone, who build
tyres to last - well, they can just go***off.
After all, ferrari raced at the USGP - it's abundantly clear they were at
fault for doing so. They should not have raced like the rest of the teams -
that is, after all, why they came to the US right?
So it would have been ok to have a Michelin driver get killed for the sake of Bridgestone's edge?
That's not just sportsmanship out the window, it's human decency.
Welcome to the jungle...............................monkey boy!
And btw, there was no testing at IMS at all.
It is reckless to not give your competitor information? ARE YOU ***ING KIDDING ME....That's rather Socialist of you......maybe Intel should start sharing technical data with AMD. Better yet, let's have the CIA start sharing intelligence with terrorists.
The only negligence was on Michelin for not bringing a better tire. The FIA warned them several weeks ago after Raikonnen's blow out not to sacrifice safety over speed.
Bullshit.......Sauber and BAR both tested at Indy (Davidson and Massa). So they did test and those teams apparently didn't have any problems or if they did, Michelin did fix them.
Wag
>I heard that at a tire test at Indy, Michelin didn't send any major teams
>to do a test.
>
No one did - no one tested at Indy. And with only one week between
Canada and Indy, no time to test. I'd say they should go to any track on the
schedule for testing as soon as any surfacing or geometrical changes are
made in future. And for the remote places where you can't easily test,
always have 2 weeks between races and let them test at that track as a lead
up in the week before the race.
An issue I think has been overlooked so far, is the issue of possible
poor sportsmanship, and maybe even criminal negligence, on the part of
Bridgestone. If they had information from the Indy 500 that they knew would
have made it dangerous for them as well as Michelin had they not been privvy
to it, then to not share this with Michelin is wreckless on their part.
So before you blame Michelin for everything, dwell on that a little. The
FIA and Bridgestone want to put it all on Michelin. The FIA scheduled this
race without testing. Bridgestone had information they probably should have
made available to Michelin - imagine if Ralph's crash wasn't one he walked
away from?
>>> So before you blame Michelin for everything, dwell on that a little.
>>> The
>>>FIA and Bridgestone want to put it all on Michelin. The FIA scheduled
>>>this
>>>race without testing. Bridgestone had information they probably should
>>>have
>>>made available to Michelin - imagine if Ralph's crash wasn't one he
>>>walked
>>>away from?
>> What info? Like hey the track was ground? Anybody watching the 500
>> would know that, I'm sure Michelin could have sent engineers to inspect
>> the track and got useful information without actually running an F1 car
>> on it.
> Gee, Michelin will be knocking down your door tomorrow. You just go and
> take a quick look at the track and tell them what compound/construction to
> use. Maybe you can give them a hand selling off all that now obsolete
> computer/analysis equiptment they forked out millions for too?
> PLONK!
PLONK indeed.
Getting killed, last time I checked, is why these cowards get paid the money they get paid - otherwise we'd be watching sim racers, better racing, better skill, and now, more danger too.
So it would have been ok to have a Michelin driver get killed for the sake of Bridgestone's edge?
That's not just sportsmanship out the window, it's human decency.
Welcome to the jungle...............................monkey boy!
And btw, there was no testing at IMS at all.
It is reckless to not give your competitor information? ARE YOU ***ING KIDDING ME....That's rather Socialist of you......maybe Intel should start sharing technical data with AMD. Better yet, let's have the CIA start sharing intelligence with terrorists.
The only negligence was on Michelin for not bringing a better tire. The FIA warned them several weeks ago after Raikonnen's blow out not to sacrifice safety over speed.
Bullshit.......Sauber and BAR both tested at Indy (Davidson and Massa). So they did test and those teams apparently didn't have any problems or if they did, Michelin did fix them.
Wag
>I heard that at a tire test at Indy, Michelin didn't send any major teams
>to do a test.
>
No one did - no one tested at Indy. And with only one week between
Canada and Indy, no time to test. I'd say they should go to any track on the
schedule for testing as soon as any surfacing or geometrical changes are
made in future. And for the remote places where you can't easily test,
always have 2 weeks between races and let them test at that track as a lead
up in the week before the race.
An issue I think has been overlooked so far, is the issue of possible
poor sportsmanship, and maybe even criminal negligence, on the part of
Bridgestone. If they had information from the Indy 500 that they knew would
have made it dangerous for them as well as Michelin had they not been privvy
to it, then to not share this with Michelin is wreckless on their part.
So before you blame Michelin for everything, dwell on that a little. The
FIA and Bridgestone want to put it all on Michelin. The FIA scheduled this
race without testing. Bridgestone had information they probably should have
made available to Michelin - imagine if Ralph's crash wasn't one he walked
away from?
"They tested their Indy compound tyres at Monza". Come on buddy, have a
think about that, FFS!
Complete bullshit, meet mcewena. Mcewena, meet complete bullshit. Oh,
your already well aquainted?
PLONK II
>> BAR are on a suspended sentence after having been caught cheating - now
>> they have been caught bringing the sport into disrepute. I have a feeling
>> we won't be seeing BAR/HONDA anywhere near a race track for the rest of
>> the season.
> So then we have the contractual problem of the minimum number of starters.
> Is it 18 or 20?
Tim
--
----------------
I love the smell of vomit in the newsgroup, it smells like...VICTORY!
Jim M - Usenet out-take
If you want to reply by email, replace the asterisks with underscores.
Currently listening to: 'Grace' - Jeff Buckley
>>> BAR are on a suspended sentence after having been caught cheating - now
>>> they have been caught bringing the sport into disrepute. I have a
>>> feeling we won't be seeing BAR/HONDA anywhere near a race track for the
>>> rest of the season.
>> So then we have the contractual problem of the minimum number of
>> starters. Is it 18 or 20?
> It gets even more fun if the Michelin teams stick together on this. IMO,
> there is a real possibility that should (say) BAR be banned, the other
> teams will withdraw too. GPWC for 2006, anyone?
> Tim
> --
> ----------------
> I love the smell of vomit in the newsgroup, it smells like...VICTORY!
> Jim M - Usenet out-take
> If you want to reply by email, replace the asterisks with underscores.
> Currently listening to: 'Grace' - Jeff Buckley
Cheers, uwe
--
GPG Fingerprint: 2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F 67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61
There were guys in the 500? I watched the race, and according to ABC, Danica was the only person running. :-)
I was Stand J, sec 24, row G seat 13 for the US"GP". I saw no fights, but I did get hit by an M&M by some 10 yr. old Ferrari fan with the loudest air horn I ever heard. I was fllipping off in the general direction of the pagoda for the first 15 laps or so and she must of mistook my one finger salutes as being towards the orange cars (i was not flipping off the cars who chose to run) so she flung a green M&M at my back. Evidently, she was a newbie and thought she was watching a race, and that by blowing her stupid air horn every time she saw the orange cars it would help Schumi "win". Her clueless Dad must not have explained to her that 20 cars usually go out on the track, and he proceeded to call everyone around us who were booing "sore losers". I almost clocked him in the mouth right then and there. That was the closest I came to seeing a fight. I'm surprised I didn't see any - I was also around some mighty pisssed off Colombians who just looked livid. I avoided them.
What a sad day for open wheel racing.
--
TigBits
(o)Y(o)
I was sitting over T1 - section J or whatever - from whence the missiles reigned over the track - and where the guy who came 2nd in the 500 was sitting - ask him about the scuffles, he was virtually inside the scrum.
That's funny - I sat at the end of the frontstretch toward F1-Turn 1 and didn't see anything resembling a riot occur - although I was prepared for one. I did see a few minor scuffles but they were mainly confined to the 'South American' grandstand. Prolly a lot of pissed off Colombians irate at not seeing Montoya run a single race lap.
Indianapolis is not Detroit - we don't riot or burn and tip over cars.
Where were you sitting?
I agree that the fans WILL NOT forget when they vote with there dollars.
Wag
The teams should be sued for inciting a riot. And endangering my life. Thank
God the riot squad got there so fast or else 120,000 rioting fans on the
stands would have caused serious injuries - there were scuffles and fights
wherever you looked.
All sponsors of F1 should take note; you are all involved with this fraud of
paying customers. And I for one will not forget.
>> I would love to see F1 stage a race at Elkart Lake ("Road America").
>> Cheers, uwe
>> --
>> GPG Fingerprint: 2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F 67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61
> Me too. I think it is the best track in the US to host F1, but the big
> problem is access for all the trucks and equipment from Milwaukee or
> O'Hare to get in there. I ran on the old track (pre-1968) and the next
> rendition in the early 70's in SCCA silly stock amateur classes. I drove a
> TR-3 in the mid 60s and ended with a Mazda RX-4 when it just became much
> too expensive to compete with the so-called amateurs with factory backing.
> I love the old track. I ran strictly in the Midwest, with the exception of
> one time at Road Atlanta (an underfunded disaster). The track was and
> still is very fast and if Michelin couldn't get a tire right for Indy, I
> doubt they could for Road America either.....:-). I have not been back
> there to see the newest rendition of the track, but have ran around it on
> TA for N2003. At least now when you leave the track you don't end up far
> into the depths of the forest of the Kettle Moraine.........:-) A.J. Foyt
> took one of those excursions and was never the same after that.
> Ed
--
TigBits
(o)Y(o)
> > The FIA's published correspondence on the matter clearly gave the
> > teams an option to change tyres and take a penalty. Since many of them
> > have stated publicly that they would have raced without championship
> > points, etc, why could they not change the tyres, take the penalties,
> > and get on with it?
> As I understand it the replacements weren't suitable either so swapping
> tyres wasn't an option in the end.
> > The teams have claimed the FIA "refused" to allow them to run on
> > different tyres. No they didn't, they refused to let them do it without
> > penalties. That's a difference.
> I think you are right there, but as it turned out it wasn't an option
AFAIK.
> > Basically, Michelin screwed up, the teams ended up with sub-standard
> > equipment, they were given an opportunity to race for the fans and they
> > declined to take it. Blame the teams, blame Michelin, but don't blame
> > the FIA for being fair.
> Michelin realised they had 'screwed up' on Friday, well before the race.
> They are certainly responsible & I'm sure they will pay heavily for the
> mistake, but they did attempt to correct their mistake and to my eyes the
> chicane option was the lesser of many evils..
> As I understand it the corner has been there for years (of course) but the
> 'diamond cut' surface was new this season. imo someone at Michelin didn't
do
> enough homework & assumed a 'regular' track surface.
> Mistakes are common & part of motorsport, how the problems that arose from
> that mistake were dealt with was the reason for the sparse grid.
> Malc.
Bah I meant sitting in the stands, the guy who came 2nd in the 500 - he was signing autographs - then some guy threw a can on the track that missed Rubens by not much at all, at which point someone tackled him, and there was the usual fisticuffs.
There were guys in the 500? I watched the race, and according to ABC, Danica was the only person running. :-)
I was Stand J, sec 24, row G seat 13 for the US"GP". I saw no fights, but I did get hit by an M&M by some 10 yr. old Ferrari fan with the loudest air horn I ever heard. I was fllipping off in the general direction of the pagoda for the first 15 laps or so and she must of mistook my one finger salutes as being towards the orange cars (i was not flipping off the cars who chose to run) so she flung a green M&M at my back. Evidently, she was a newbie and thought she was watching a race, and that by blowing her stupid air horn every time she saw the orange cars it would help Schumi "win". Her clueless Dad must not have explained to her that 20 cars usually go out on the track, and he proceeded to call everyone around us who were booing "sore losers". I almost clocked him in the mouth right then and there. That was the closest I came to seeing a fight. I'm surprised I didn't see any - I was also around some mighty pisssed off Colombians who just looked livid. I avoided them.
What a sad day for open wheel racing.
--
TigBits
(o)Y(o)
I was sitting over T1 - section J or whatever - from whence the missiles reigned over the track - and where the guy who came 2nd in the 500 was sitting - ask him about the scuffles, he was virtually inside the scrum.
That's funny - I sat at the end of the frontstretch toward F1-Turn 1 and didn't see anything resembling a riot occur - although I was prepared for one. I did see a few minor scuffles but they were mainly confined to the 'South American' grandstand. Prolly a lot of pissed off Colombians irate at not seeing Montoya run a single race lap.
Indianapolis is not Detroit - we don't riot or burn and tip over cars.
Where were you sitting?
I agree that the fans WILL NOT forget when they vote with there dollars.
Wag
The teams should be sued for inciting a riot. And endangering my life. Thank
God the riot squad got there so fast or else 120,000 rioting fans on the
stands would have caused serious injuries - there were scuffles and fights
wherever you looked.
All sponsors of F1 should take note; you are all involved with this fraud of
paying customers. And I for one will not forget.
Me too. I think it is the best track in the US to host F1, but the big
problem is access for all the trucks and equipment from Milwaukee or O'Hare
to get in there. I ran on the old track (pre-1968) and the next rendition in
the early 70's in SCCA silly stock amateur classes. I drove a TR-3 in the
mid 60s and ended with a Mazda RX-4 when it just became much too expensive
to compete with the so-called amateurs with factory backing. I love the old
track. I ran strictly in the Midwest, with the exception of one time at Road
Atlanta (an underfunded disaster). The track was and still is very fast and
if Michelin couldn't get a tire right for Indy, I doubt they could for Road
America either.....:-). I have not been back there to see the newest
rendition of the track, but have ran around it on TA for N2003. At least now
when you leave the track you don't end up far into the depths of the forest
of the Kettle Moraine.........:-) A.J. Foyt took one of those excursions and
was never the same after that.
Ed
So then we have the contractual problem of the minimum number of starters.
Is it 18 or 20? Maybe Minardi and Jordan can each field a third car...
