rec.autos.simulators

Indeed; ugly stuff. But then, what do you expect when you cheat 120,000
people out of their money and then send out six cars to vent their anger at?
Believe me, as an Italian, I kinda cringed at the chorus of ***-yous that
met the playing of my anthem and flag to which I lost an uncle and a
grandfather - not that I'm a patriot, you understand, but still ... such is
life.

Best moment, as I say, were the drivers waving at the kids before the race -
knowing they were gonna***everyone over. Now that is the definition of
cold. Can you imagine how they were joking amongst themselves at the yank
suckers in the stands? Priceless moment; think Coulthard and the Brits would
have done the parade lap were this Silverstone? Or Fisichella were this
Monza? I don't think so; they crapped all over that American crowd. Ugly
stuff indeed.

However, it HAS been reported that 9 of the 10 teams(or 10 of 11, I'm too
rushed to look it up) had supported a chicane.  Since ALL teams votes were
needed to make the chane, the fact no chicane went up can 'partially' be
attributed to Ferrari.  Remember, they also did not want to allow Paul
Stoddard to run his 2004 spec machinery at Australia.  One could argue they
are being consistant.  Or one could argue they are supporting their
sponsors.  Or one could argue they are fighting for every point.

dh

As for Minardi and Jordan - why they decided to boycott the race is bizarre.
They had no problems running - which makes their decision purely one of
politics. Disgusting stuff indeed.

Ferrari came to race. Ferrari raced.

Michelin and its partner teams came to sabotage the FIA. And did so. They
did it in the US because it was not in europe, basically, and as far removed
from their core fans as possible. Anyone who thinks this was not the break
away teams seizing an opportunity of sticking it to the FIA don't understand
F1 at all. Michelin teams could easily have raced - only one team had a blow
out, and only one other team reported any problems with the tyres. Slowing
down was an option, as was driving through the pits - changing the entire
configuration of the track in 20 minutes before the start of the race is a
little unrealistic. Does anyone really think changing a track in 20 minutes
is possible? And then send out 1000bhp machines onto a track that they have
never seen before? Come on - you're just playing into the Michelin teams'
hands.

.....well said.

  Indeed; ugly stuff. But then, what do you expect when you cheat 120,000
  people out of their money and then send out six cars to vent their anger at?
  Believe me, as an Italian, I kinda cringed at the chorus of ***-yous that
  met the playing of my anthem and flag to which I lost an uncle and a
  grandfather - not that I'm a patriot, you understand, but still ... such is
  life.

  Best moment, as I say, were the drivers waving at the kids before the race -
  knowing they were gonna***everyone over. Now that is the definition of
  cold. Can you imagine how they were joking amongst themselves at the yank
  suckers in the stands? Priceless moment; think Coulthard and the Brits would
  have done the parade lap were this Silverstone? Or Fisichella were this
  Monza? I don't think so; they crapped all over that American crowd. Ugly
  stuff indeed.

You'd have to prove intent to *** - not likely.  I certainly don't condone that idiocy and those people were quickly pointed out by REAL fans and escorted out.

BTW, it's not the good people of Indianapolis.  I'd easily estimate that less than 10% of that crowd is actually from Indy, or from Indiana for that matter (I live in Indianapolis).  In fact, 50% of the crowd is South American and spent a lot of money so that these teams could ****** them - maybe we should charge them with***!

Wag

  > The teams should be sued for inciting a riot. And endangering my life.
  > Thank God the riot squad got there so fast or else 120,000 rioting fans on
  > the stands would have caused serious injuries - there were scuffles and
  > fights wherever you looked.

  Angry mobs, eh ?
  How about the people who threw stuff on the track at the drivers getting
  locked up for attempted *** ?
  Or do the good people of Indianapolis have no control over their actions ?

But most importantly, Michelin should have brought a quality product and then there'd be no discussion of temporary chicanes which would be a safety issue in and of itself.

Wag

  > And Ferrari were not involved in the discussion, as Williams have
  > confirmed.

  However, it HAS been reported that 9 of the 10 teams(or 10 of 11, I'm too
  rushed to look it up) had supported a chicane.  Since ALL teams votes were
  needed to make the chane, the fact no chicane went up can 'partially' be
  attributed to Ferrari.  Remember, they also did not want to allow Paul
  Stoddard to run his 2004 spec machinery at Australia.  One could argue they
  are being consistant.  Or one could argue they are supporting their
  sponsors.  Or one could argue they are fighting for every point.

  dh

Yeah and they butt-***ed us dry mate - no spit used, no vaseline offered. And I believe it is 75% at the USGP that come from 200 miles or more from Indy.

  You'd have to prove intent to *** - not likely.  I certainly don't condone that idiocy and those people were quickly pointed out by REAL fans and escorted out.

  BTW, it's not the good people of Indianapolis.  I'd easily estimate that less than 10% of that crowd is actually from Indy, or from Indiana for that matter (I live in Indianapolis).  In fact, 50% of the crowd is South American and spent a lot of money so that these teams could ****** them - maybe we should charge them with***!

  Wag

    > The teams should be sued for inciting a riot. And endangering my life.
    > Thank God the riot squad got there so fast or else 120,000 rioting fans on
    > the stands would have caused serious injuries - there were scuffles and
    > fights wherever you looked.

    Angry mobs, eh ?
    How about the people who threw stuff on the track at the drivers getting
    locked up for attempted *** ?
    Or do the good people of Indianapolis have no control over their actions ?

Again, right on point my friend.

  Yes well Ferrari spent 430 million dollars last year to win F1 - sounds like
  they may be serious about the competition. They spent more than some
  nations' GDP to win the world championship.

  As for Minardi and Jordan - why they decided to boycott the race is bizarre.
  They had no problems running - which makes their decision purely one of
  politics. Disgusting stuff indeed.

  Ferrari came to race. Ferrari raced.

  Michelin and its partner teams came to sabotage the FIA. And did so. They
  did it in the US because it was not in europe, basically, and as far removed
  from their core fans as possible. Anyone who thinks this was not the break
  away teams seizing an opportunity of sticking it to the FIA don't understand
  F1 at all. Michelin teams could easily have raced - only one team had a blow
  out, and only one other team reported any problems with the tyres. Slowing
  down was an option, as was driving through the pits - changing the entire
  configuration of the track in 20 minutes before the start of the race is a
  little unrealistic. Does anyone really think changing a track in 20 minutes
  is possible? And then send out 1000bhp machines onto a track that they have
  never seen before? Come on - you're just playing into the Michelin teams'
  hands.

I'd laugh but it wasn't too damn funny to me or my family when we were taking it from behind.  I'm actually more pissed now than I was at the race.  So did Vitor have to throw down with any of the hoodlums?

  Yeah and they butt-***ed us dry mate - no spit used, no vaseline offered. And I believe it is 75% at the USGP that come from 200 miles or more from Indy.

I don't know - the beer bottle that landed up hitting rubens was thrown from pretty close to him, and the guy was tackled by a few fans, and fists were flying - I chose that moment to leave with my wife (being European, I have seen these things turn ugly pretty fast at footie games and thought better than to sit around and wait to find out what happens next) and drove away. Ashamed, to be honest, to have had anything to do with this sport - to think this was my 28th GP ...

  I'd laugh but it wasn't too damn funny to me or my family when we were taking it from behind.  I'm actually more pissed now than I was at the race.  So did Vitor have to throw down with any of the hoodlums?

    Yeah and they butt-***ed us dry mate - no spit used, no vaseline offered. And I believe it is 75% at the USGP that come from 200 miles or more from Indy.

It is a shame that some folks choose to act like fools when given any excuse to do so.  Also a shame that you were victimized twice; once by Michelin teams and once by a few idiots in the stands.

As it turned out, the race between the reds was a pretty good one and the outcome was in doubt with 20 to go.  That was my 4th GP and my last - more sad, is that my kids don't want anything to do with F1 anymore either - way to go fellas, you just alienated the current and future of your sport.

Wag

  I don't know - the beer bottle that landed up hitting rubens was thrown from pretty close to him, and the guy was tackled by a few fans, and fists were flying - I chose that moment to leave with my wife (being European, I have seen these things turn ugly pretty fast at footie games and thought better than to sit around and wait to find out what happens next) and drove away. Ashamed, to be honest, to have had anything to do with this sport - to think this was my 28th GP ...

Racing? A sport?  I think not.

What it really points out is the need to have a rule to address the
situation.  I mean, what if the only Bridgestone cars were Minardi and
Jordan?  Is the same sort of thing supposed to happen again if one of
those teams decided "Hey! guaranteed win!" and refused to compromise?

Hell - what if the circuit owners discovered a problem with the tarmac
in one corner that could have been fixed by a chicane or change in
racing line - is the FIA going to revoke thier sanction of the race
because the circuit changed?

Why couldn't they have implemented a significant time penalty on the
Michelin teams?  I.e. - teams which have an issue causing an
agreed-upon change in racing circuit or procedures for safety reasons
shall incur a 30min penalty added to thier total race time, the total
time to be used in determining the final scoring (like motorcycle GPs
use for weather-related stoppages)?

Then you still have a race, teams w/o the problem are guaranteed to
finish ahead, and all the other teams can still have an internal battle
for the remaining points.

Am I crazy to even think this would work?
Kendt

Glenn