rec.autos.simulators

by **John Bodi** » Sun, 05 Sep 1999 04:00:00

To stay, or not to stay -- that is the question.

Here's the deal: I've seen a lot of posts recently with complaints about
people who don't stay and finish a race on VROC.

I have to admit that I am one of those slow people -- Watkins Glen is the
only track where I'm really able to be competitive (I can regularly turn in
sub-1:09 laps there, and even if I can't hit the 1:06 mark, I still feel
like I can be racey, stay on the track, hold a line, not punt others, and
stay out of the way of the fast cars). On other tracks, though, I sometimes
find myself way off the mark and unable to really stay with a decent pace.
On those tracks where I'm not so good, I often find myself simply ***
the car; this sometimes happens even at places like the Glen, where I'm
usually pretty consistent, too, and once the *** starts, I really feel
like I'm more out of control than in control -- especially when I start
muffing corners and experiencing runoffs.

After a couple of these sort of runoffs, or after I find myself serving as a
chicane that the leaders have to contend with, I really feel like I'm
getting in the way of the true competitors -- and running the risk of
ruining the experience for others. Plus, after two or three runoffs, I also
feel that if it had been a real race, I would have trashed my car so badly
that I would be a DNF anyway -- so, for the sake of realism, staying in the
race is ludicrous to me in those circumstances. Part of racing is
preserving the hardware so you can be there at the end of a race, but if I
just bounced off an armco and did a couple of end-over-end flips, it's hard
for me to feel like I should even be ALLOWED to finish the race, even if
"CTRL-R" is enabled.

So, in these instances, I often just punch out of the race, exiting with my
tail between my legs and my ego bruised.

Am I wrong in feeling this way? Should I go ahead and stay with it,
regardless of how ludicrous the situation is? Should I go ahead and
overlook the fact that I would have trashed the hardware too badly to
continue the race and go ahead and use the "CTRL-R" option? Do I go ahead
and serve as an impediment to others when I'm too far off the pace, or not
up to my usual levels of consistency?

I know that the pat answer to some of these questions is, "Practice more so
you'll be fast enough and then you won't get in people's way," but I think
that's an unrealistic approach, frankly. If a race on VROC is listed as a
"Trainer" race, then what better place to train?

Also, on the issue of staying on the pace, I've mentioned several times
about several experiences I've had on-line with "hotshoes" who can turn in
1:05's at the Glen, but can't seem to be able to make a clean start, pull
off a pass with no incident, or come up on a slower car without punting
them. I may be slow, but, frankly, I have almost NEVER punted someone else
when braking for a corner -- I treat on-line racing as the real thing; if I
brake a little earlier when on-line than I do against the AI, it's because
there's more at stake for me and for the guy (or gal) I might be punting.
That's simple courtesy, and, frankly, slow cars on the track ARE a reality
that you have to deal with in real racing, so you should be ready -- and
prepared -- to deal with them in virtual racing environments, too.

So, the bottom line is, what's the proper etiquette for these situations?
Somebody fill me in, please, because it sounds to me like I'm not alone in
this.

Thanks in advance, and my apologies to those whom I've raced against in the
past! <G>

-- John Bodin
Publisher, The IRL Insider Magazine
http://www.racesimcentral.net/

by **Chris** » Sun, 05 Sep 1999 04:00:00

John,

I think this is more oriented towards those that may exit immediately after
their first inncident rather than those who are trying to finish the race,
but have multiple spins, etc. and feel that their race is over.

However, IMO, you should NEVER feel like you have to exit a race just
because you happen to be slower than others in the race. You started it,
everyone should afford you the opportunity to finish it. Unless someone is
truly a menace as in driving all over the road, not holding anything
resembling a line, going backwards, etc.

Unfortunately, thats life I think. There really aren't any consquences for
them if the "buy" it, or force someone into the wall, etc. So they can get
away with it. Is it great online racing eqtiqutte? I would think not.
Folks like that may be great hotlappers, but obviously they ain't great
racers [reminds me of Paul Tracy...really fast, but does anyone really want
to race him?!]

by **Robert Grave** » Sun, 05 Sep 1999 04:00:00

Have you given F2's and F3's a try ? They are much easier to handle.

And stay ONLINE. Its your game as much as anyone else's .

Cheers =:-D

by **Rick Sweene** » Mon, 06 Sep 1999 04:00:00

John
Just hold your racing line when being approached by a faster car. They will get
around you at the appropriate time. It makes thing worse if you try and get off
line to let them them by.

> To stay, or not to stay -- that is the question.

> Here's the deal: I've seen a lot of posts recently with complaints about
> people who don't stay and finish a race on VROC.

> I have to admit that I am one of those slow people -- Watkins Glen is the
> only track where I'm really able to be competitive (I can regularly turn in
> sub-1:09 laps there, and even if I can't hit the 1:06 mark, I still feel
> like I can be racey, stay on the track, hold a line, not punt others, and
> stay out of the way of the fast cars). On other tracks, though, I sometimes
> find myself way off the mark and unable to really stay with a decent pace.
> On those tracks where I'm not so good, I often find myself simply ***
> the car; this sometimes happens even at places like the Glen, where I'm
> usually pretty consistent, too, and once the *** starts, I really feel
> like I'm more out of control than in control -- especially when I start
> muffing corners and experiencing runoffs.

> After a couple of these sort of runoffs, or after I find myself serving as a
> chicane that the leaders have to contend with, I really feel like I'm
> getting in the way of the true competitors -- and running the risk of
> ruining the experience for others. Plus, after two or three runoffs, I also
> feel that if it had been a real race, I would have trashed my car so badly
> that I would be a DNF anyway -- so, for the sake of realism, staying in the
> race is ludicrous to me in those circumstances. Part of racing is
> preserving the hardware so you can be there at the end of a race, but if I
> just bounced off an armco and did a couple of end-over-end flips, it's hard
> for me to feel like I should even be ALLOWED to finish the race, even if
> "CTRL-R" is enabled.

> So, in these instances, I often just punch out of the race, exiting with my
> tail between my legs and my ego bruised.

> Am I wrong in feeling this way? Should I go ahead and stay with it,
> regardless of how ludicrous the situation is? Should I go ahead and
> overlook the fact that I would have trashed the hardware too badly to
> continue the race and go ahead and use the "CTRL-R" option? Do I go ahead
> and serve as an impediment to others when I'm too far off the pace, or not
> up to my usual levels of consistency?

> I know that the pat answer to some of these questions is, "Practice more so
> you'll be fast enough and then you won't get in people's way," but I think
> that's an unrealistic approach, frankly. If a race on VROC is listed as a
> "Trainer" race, then what better place to train?

> Also, on the issue of staying on the pace, I've mentioned several times
> about several experiences I've had on-line with "hotshoes" who can turn in
> 1:05's at the Glen, but can't seem to be able to make a clean start, pull
> off a pass with no incident, or come up on a slower car without punting
> them. I may be slow, but, frankly, I have almost NEVER punted someone else
> when braking for a corner -- I treat on-line racing as the real thing; if I
> brake a little earlier when on-line than I do against the AI, it's because
> there's more at stake for me and for the guy (or gal) I might be punting.
> That's simple courtesy, and, frankly, slow cars on the track ARE a reality
> that you have to deal with in real racing, so you should be ready -- and
> prepared -- to deal with them in virtual racing environments, too.

> So, the bottom line is, what's the proper etiquette for these situations?
> Somebody fill me in, please, because it sounds to me like I'm not alone in
> this.

> Thanks in advance, and my apologies to those whom I've raced against in the
> past! <G>

> -- John Bodin
> Publisher, The IRL Insider Magazine
> http://www.racesimcentral.net/

by b » Mon, 06 Sep 1999 04:00:00

On Sat, 4 Sep 1999 19:45:17 -0500, "John Bodin"

>To stay, or not to stay -- that is the question.

several months ago you letter could have been written by me -
word-for-word. if not in word, in mental approach.

so with all my months of experience, here is the answer you've been
waiting for;

DON'T LEAVE!!

most of the drivers are very understanding and very helpful, and they
have been there before.
as another reply said "hold your line, the faster guys will find the
place to pass"

like any real driving, the guy thats hits someone in the rear is AT
FAULT! not you.
once you overcome the fear of faster cars in your mirrors, your
confidence builds and you lap times drop. just don't ignore your
mirrors!
Alison Hine told me she did over 500 laps at monza when the sim first
came out. It takes time, dont force your learning curve, it will get
better naturally. who said 'sometimes you must slow down to go
faster'? its true!
if you leave how will you improve? just relax, have fun, enjoy and
DON'T LEAVE :)

hope to see you on the track, and eventually on the podium!
Bo Bruce

by b » Mon, 06 Sep 1999 04:00:00

On Sat, 4 Sep 1999 19:45:17 -0500, "John Bodin"

>To stay, or not to stay -- that is the question.

john -
several months ago your letter could have (was) written almost word
for word by me! if not the words the mental approach is identical.

so with my months of experience here is the answer you are waiting
for.

DON'T LEAVE!

most (99%) of the drivers on line are more than understanding. helpful
and have been there before (with me :) - another posted reply says it
quite well - hold your line the faster cars will find the place to
pass.
what happens (alot) is the less than professional types end up driving
your tailpipes thru windshield...guess what? just like real driving on
almost any road, the guy doing the hitting is at fault! NOT YOU!
so why should you leave?

if you leave and this is the normal level you have attained, how do
you expect to improve?
the more you race, the more you will adjust to fast cars in your
mirrors, and the more comfortable you will become with NOT WORRYING
about your driving, and just drive. when that happens you will begin
to notice your lap times dropping!

dont force your learning curve by trying to be faster. it will come,
with lots of practice. Alison Hine told me she ran over 500 laps at
monza (alone) before she felt she was 'getting it'. and she didn't
jump to another track until she was funtional at one!

have fun, take your time, most of - don't leave!!!!!
hope to see you on the track....and someday on the podium!
Bo Bruce

by b » Mon, 06 Sep 1999 04:00:00

On Sat, 4 Sep 1999 19:45:17 -0500, "John Bodin"

>To stay, or not to stay -- that is the question.

several months ago you letter could have been written by me -
word-for-word. if not in word, in mental approach.

so with all my months of experience, here is the answer you've been
waiting for;

DON'T LEAVE!!

most of the drivers are very understanding and very helpful, and they
have been there before.
as another reply said "hold your line, the faster guys will find the
place to pass"

like any real driving, the guy thats hits someone in the rear is AT
FAULT! not you.
once you overcome the fear of faster cars in your mirrors, your
confidence builds and you lap times drop. just don't ignore your
mirrors!
Alison Hine told me she did over 500 laps at monza when the sim first
came out. It takes time, dont force your learning curve, it will get
better naturally. who said 'sometimes you must slow down to go
faster'? its true!
if you leave how will you improve? just relax, have fun, enjoy and
DON'T LEAVE :)

hope to see you on the track, and eventually on the podium!
Bo Bruce

by b » Mon, 06 Sep 1999 04:00:00

sorry for multi post.....

by **Doug Schneide** » Mon, 06 Sep 1999 04:00:00

I can only reinforce what others have said, DON'T LEAVE! Stay to the bitter
end, no matter how far back you may finish, and chat with the other drivers for
a bit. Sounds like you're a conscientious, thinking driver and lord knows they
are always welcome. Hope to see you on a track sometime soon. Oh yeah, keep
practicing, the speed will come.

Zog