rec.autos.simulators

Well maybe that would be a good solution George. Then the original poster
wouldn't have finished the race,  and might have learned a valuable lesson
about not running into people from behind,  regardless of how many
hypothectical reasons you can come up with to justify it.
--
Don Scurlock
Vancouver,B.C.

Now with respect to my 'excuses' all of them are based both on my
online racing experiences and observations of real life racing events
so I would not qualify them as hypothetical.  Can't vouch for others
though.

 - George

No, it's the same attitude, It's matter of just how you took it or
misunderstood it, read below ;)

If you are going to pass him, you have to go close to him eventually,
because road isn't wider than 3 cars in most of the lap and one of those 3
cars is sometimes just pure warping....In tracks like Nurburgring and
Mosport you have to get close if he doesn't move away from the racing line
and give you room and even then overtaking is very dangerous. Don't think
about only Monza here, it's only one of the 11 tracks ;)

In the situation I am _not_ near and I'm _not_ overtaking when I go away
from the racingline first(you can do this only in wide tracks). I'm just
showing that "here I'm coming, prepare to get lapped soon" ie. show myself
in his mirrors, but if _he_ wants to let me go by right away, he can slow
down a lot and allow overtaking to happen, it's _his_ choice. If I make the
choice
I make it later when I've studied his driving style and evaluated the safe
place to overtake and then I make _my_ move to overtake(by moving away from
the racingline also), but in that point I'm much closer than in the previous
point. Between the two situations I'm getting closer to the backmarker all
than time and between those 2 situations if he decides to give me room, he
will move away from the racingline in safe place and eases the throttle.
It's 100% of co-operation, if he wants to be gentleman he can give room, but
he doesn't _have to_ do it, I will do it eventually. It may take a lap or 2
or even 3 and if he has very bad control to his car, it leads easily to 2-3
laps of so called "random event", when driver in front of you is sliding all
over the
place and you never know when he spins totally and wrecks everyone near him.
In this case It can be more dangerous to wait and let me make my move,
because it's very difficult for faster driver to adapt to his driving rhytm,
when there is no rhytm. So both ways do work, it's just matter of evaluating
which one of the options is safer and it 's almost completely up to the
backmarker
to make the decision. Faster guy will go by eventually by making his own
move. What I'm saying is that faster guys doesn't actually make even the
decision, he checks the backmarker and then he makes the move later, BUT
backmarker can change that by doing things safer in safe place if the
current
situation requires it.

The wreck I was talking about earlier occured before this whole
situation, in place where I wasn't even near him and surely didn't expect to
overtake him, but that he surprised me totally by braking unpredictably
early, before I could of even study his driving style. This can happen
already in the 2nd or 3rd curve after _I SEE_ him for the _first_ time.

No, this is the one you got wrong, _I AM_ the one complaining about T1
crashes. I can't understand some people who don't have any respect to other
drivers and they have to ram or take a high risk in T1. If there is 15
drivers and everyone takes risk there, I'm quite sure there will be
collision in T1. T1-crashes doesn't have to be normal situation in the race,
they can be avoided by changing attitudes. Sometimes the crash happens no
matter how clean and careful you tried to be, but it doesn't have to happen
in every single race you enter.

Now this leads to it that F3 would fit better for the drivers who are
suffering from unstabile racing or often ram other people in F1 races? I
personally recommend F3 to everyone, even experienced ones.
The replay wasn't ment to be example of how I deal the traffic. It was ment
to be example of attitude which IMO is the problem in the first place(not in
everyone, but in "some people").

It wasn't your mistake, I was also talking about F1 racing, actually I was
talking about racing with GPL in general, all classes included. Basic
"rules" are the same in all classes ;)

But we can try to improve that? If we invite everyone to onlineracing in
their first day with GPL, keeps these wrecks happening.
IMO we should direct newbies to familiarize the car first, learn the way it
works, after that they could only race in tracks where they have practiced
and not jump to every single race even though that track would be totally
unexplored. I think this is usually the actual problem. There is tracks
running in dedicated servers, but not just the one _he_ practiced, so he
goes to practice it in onlinerace, which causes a lot of accidents in form
of my: "he brakes 100-200 meters earlier".

I enjoy overtaking very much, thank you ;P but only when I get a _chance_ to
overtake them cleanly.

I don't want to be judge either, but I want to make people understand that
by joining the race where you most certainly just cause accidents is not a
good idea. I'm trying to encourage people to learn the track a bit more
before joining the race. it is easier for us all if he is constant in his
laptimes, even though they would be 10-20 second slower, but if you don't
have any rhytm and don't have any idea where you should brake, IMO stay
offline until you have.

There is no easy solution to this. If I'm always 200 meters
behind him and never use racingline, I will never even catch him and
what racing is that? Maybe I should park my car somewhere safe place in the
grass everytime I see a backmarker....that's the only way to make it safer,
but even then someone could ram my rear-end...But I agree that there is
nothing I can do to that sort of driver. That was the point I was trying to
make in the first place. No matter how good and clean driver you are, if the
one in front of you causes danger just by driving his own race, there is
nothing you can do to avoid collisions to happen ;)

George M. Smiley kirjoitti viestiss? ...

What can I say. I agree about a 100% of your post(even the snipped one). I
also would like to see more full-damage-enabled races, personally I like
GPLength races with full damage, it at least should make people think about
keeping it clean in stead of "how fast can I shift-r after T1"-attitude...

I would also like to express my new version of the diehard phrase:

"To finish first, you must first finish without shift-r" ;)

__
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If all the world's a stage, where is the audience sitting?
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Eldred

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If all the world's a stage, where is the audience sitting?
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Wouldn't work ANYWAY.  I remember people on TEN having MUCH trouble with pace
laps... :-(

Eldred

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remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

c'mon! if you can't catch him then he is no slowpoke, right? this is no
put-your-nose-in-his-gear-box or stand-back-200-metre decision thing:
these are just the extremes.

Lio

yes, but in this situation the backmarker should get off the line early,
get off the gas and raise his hand (at least on my detail level this is
visible ;-) ). one should never slow down on the racing line for that
purpose!

exception to the rule: if you read end someone spinning, you are not to
blame ;-)
I really agree with you that there are drivers out there who force their
car around the track and it's very difficult to pass them - that's the
difference to real racing: you will not find such drivers there, because
they would all be dead after their first race ;-)

I know there are many situations where you wreck someone and you could
not avoid it. that's racing. it's the same for someone going back on the
track after a spin and not seeing someone approaching from the back ...
just bad luck. although I really appreciate to hear a 'sorry' in such a
case ;-)

IMHO we would have less crashes in T1 if all servers would use a wide
1x1 staggered grid like on our GGPLC-server - the standard grids let the
impatient think that they can gain some places at the start. instead
they just wreck half the field :-(

agreed :-)

totally agreed! before entering an onlinerace, you should really know
the track, control your car good enough so you don't spin every second
turn and please: no keyboard drivers! I happened to meet someone of this
species who attracted my attention by producing lots of skid marks,
smoke and doing 1:40-laps in qualifying at the glen ...

Lio

if you can't find a way to go around someone, then you probably
shouldn't try to take him.

--
Gunnar -- '98 Super Primerbird '92 G00F2
   #31 SUCKS#015 Tupperware MC#002 DoD#0x1B DoDRT#003 DoD:CT#4,8 Kibo: 2  
            de vakreste ord p? jord:  saldo i Deres fav?r

In the heat of a race you (or at least I) cannot anticipate every move the
car in front might do. Also, since it is a *race*, you have your mind set to
go as fast as you can. I consider myself a reasonable GPL driver and racer.
I do not go around ramming people on purpose. All I'm saying that there are
situations it is unavoidable unless I'd drive at 50mph at all times. Or if
the guy in front would look at his mirrors every once in a while.

Hena

Propably not. Now that is why there is 107% rule in RL F1. So, we GPL
drivers just have to be more skilled than F1 drivers in reallife to deal
with traffic. ;)

Gunnar Horrigmo kirjoitti viestiss? ...

George M. Smiley kirjoitti viestiss?

Yes, we need more drivers to VROC so that novices could run novice races and
pro's pro-races. This sure would make it easier to fast guys, but then
again.. would it still be ramming party in novice races? Best solution IMO
is still to practice basic handling of the car and have good attitude and
respect to other drivers and learn current track before joining it in
onlinerace.