--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...
-- http://www.racesimcentral.net/
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...
I took a look back and I've got replays and standings/laps files
from online races from about 30 days after GPL was released (released
9/30/98 in the US). (And it was going on before I jumped into it.)
The patches added some enhancements (most notably dedicated
servers, making a lot more races available), but I think for a
majority of us, the online GPL experience has been great from day one.
"But in a way, fear is a big part of racing, because if there was
nothing to be frightened of, and no limit, any fool could get into
a motor car and racing would not exist as a sport." -- Jim Clark
>>well didn't we have to wait for patch 1.2 and VROC to have DECENT
>>mutliplayer in GPL ?
> Simply put, NO.
> I took a look back and I've got replays and standings/laps files
>from online races from about 30 days after GPL was released (released
>9/30/98 in the US). (And it was going on before I jumped into it.)
> The patches added some enhancements (most notably dedicated
>servers, making a lot more races available), but I think for a
>majority of us, the online GPL experience has been great from day one.
Andre
Multiplayer is one of the last things a developer works on in a racing sim
(whether we like it or not). Only a small % of people who buy these sims
race online, and even fewer race online regularly. F1RC is a far more
feature filled sim than GPL, and a lot of work was done in just the two
years (maybe less) since MGPRS2. They worked on GPL for four years?
F1RC has FAR more detailed and complex graphics than GPL. It's also an
extremely smooth running graphics engine. No comparison.
It takes a lot of time to model the tracks the way Ubi did using GPS.
F1RC has weather (kind of important and fairly complex).
F1RC has pitting (kind of important).
F1RC has force feedback (GPL was out for a year before it appeared).
F1RC has tire wear.
F1RC has adjustable levels of difficulty and AI.
F1RC has telemetry.
Lots of little details like radio to the pits, *** build up and grip
change. Dry line develops during rain, etc.
Ubi Soft could have eliminated the above features and had more time for
multiplayer, but for most people, that would not be a welcomed decision.
Also, F1 has restricted them in what they could do with the multiplayer (why
do you think you can't type a TCP/IP address directly into the multiplayer
screen?), so that may have put it even farther down on the list of
priorities.
How about giving Ubi Soft some time to work on the multiplayer? They DO know
how to do it and do it well. POD was released four years ago, and was
excellent online (very few here at r.a.s. were even considering online
racing back then). I competed in a $10,000 tournament which awarded Voodoo
cards to people who finished in the top 20, and $10,000 to the winner. They
wouldn't have bothered with that tournament if the results were able to be
questioned due to poor net play.
It's just amazing the way developers not named Papyrus are treated on this
newsgroup. Two sets of rules.
David G Fisher
> >>well didn't we have to wait for patch 1.2 and VROC to have DECENT
> >>mutliplayer in GPL ?
> > Simply put, NO.
> > I took a look back and I've got replays and standings/laps files
> >from online races from about 30 days after GPL was released (released
> >9/30/98 in the US). (And it was going on before I jumped into it.)
> > The patches added some enhancements (most notably dedicated
> >servers, making a lot more races available), but I think for a
> >majority of us, the online GPL experience has been great from day one.
> Well.. it took me a couple of months after the release of GPL before I
> even dared to show my face on the track online..
> No WinVROC back then, we had to use some java applet on the vroc site,
> but it worked fantastic from the first day I tried it.
> I remember my first race was a Monza race with a full grid, and I was
> totally amazed.
> After that experience, what a bummer it was when I tried the
> multiplayer of GP3 (oh wait, it didn't have online multiplayer), F1CS
> and F1RC. People don't learn from the past it seems.. :(
> Andre
David G Fisher
> > On Wed, 4 Apr 2001 07:34:18 +0100, "Iain Mackenzie"
> > >It's very interesting how people can have very different opinions
> especially
> > >considering that we are all probably after the same thing - as close to
> the
> > >real thing as you can get on a PC.
> > Could be big difference be that some people use F1CS' chassis patch
> > and some people don't? The chassis patch makes a BIG difference, F1CS
> > becomes much harder (and much more enjoyable :)
> > Andre
> I think your on to something here. The default physics in F1CS are very
easy
> to drive. Now at first is was not easy but after using the Advance chassis
> patch from John Bodin for a few months the default physics are easy and do
> seem like your driving a car on rails.
> I think if everyone tried driving F1CS with the chassis patch they would
> have a different opinion on the driving on rails feeling as well as
thinking
> the cars are easy to drive.
> For the past 3 weeks I have been trying to really like F1RC because of all
> the post from people saying it's the best. I put in about an hour or so a
> night driving the car and working on a good setup. I just can't seem to
like
> it, the cars feel so dead of feedback as to the state of the car compared
to
> F1CS Patched. I also don't get the immersion factor with all the silly
> arcade displays on the screen that I can't seem to turn off an the
steering
> wheels just don't look right. The view for the***pit is too high and I
> don't feel like I am tucked in low like the real drivers. I think even
F1CS
> is a little to high but not as bad as F1RC
> I really don't know how to explain it but when I drive F1RC I feel like I
am
> playing a game and don't really feel like I am in a simulation of an F1
Car.
> Just my thought on this, not trying to change anyone's opinion. As long as
> you enjoy your favorite it doesn't matter what other people think.
> ----------
> Murchman
> >It's very interesting how people can have very different opinions
especially
> >considering that we are all probably after the same thing - as close to
the
> >real thing as you can get on a PC.
> Could be big difference be that some people use F1CS' chassis patch
> and some people don't? The chassis patch makes a BIG difference, F1CS
> becomes much harder (and much more enjoyable :)
> Andre
Agreed. GPL 1.0 was excellent. The only online trouble I've ever had was
with the buggy v1.1 patch.
--
Cheers!
Graeme Nash
Thank God they did, I wonder if GPL would still be as populair as it
is now without the multiplayer..
Yes but that is completely irrelevant I think.. when we are discussing
the quality of a game, development time is no excuse/defense..
Absolutely. It wouldn't be good if a new game would have worse
graphics than a 2.5 year old game :)
Seriously, the graphics of F1RC are the best ever seen in a racing
sim.
Yes, but not as good as GP3.
But the ff in F1RC is b-a-a-a-d.. compare it with GPL's ff..
For a modern F1 sim, very important. It would be nice if GPL would
have this, but as you know, tires lasted a whole racing weekend in
that time.
GPL worked different: as you got faster, the AI got faster. Nice idea
which didn't work well in reality, but thankfully an AI tweaker was
released for this.
But.. let's not discuss the AI of F1RC anymore before the patch
arrives ok? :)
<snip>
David, this is nonsense. GPL is 2.5 years old. Is has set new
standards in the field of multiplayer, force feedback and physics.
Now, 2.5 years later, sims are being released with lacking
multiplayer, crappy, totally useless force feedback, and the physics
of some of the newest racing sims is discussable to say the least.
The difference is, after 2.5 years we are expecting new sims to be
better. Yet every new sim disappoints again. I expect good multiplayer
(that means a full field!), force feedback that tells me what the car
is doing, physics that give me the feeling that I'm actually racing in
an F1 car.
Papyrus released GPL, and -with the help of the community- it has
become the best racing sim, both offline and online, so far.
Therefore they get the respect they deserve.
But that doesn't make them holy.. read the N3 and N4 posts, you'll see
what I mean.
I expect developers to learn from other games. GP3 has been out for a
year now? That's how variable weather should be done.
GPL is out for 2.5 years now. That's how multiplayer and force
feedback should be done.
Err.. can't think of a good AI example actually..
'they had only 2 years to develop F1RC' is no excuse.
It would be fantastic if Ubi would make a decent multiplayer, AI and
force feedback for F1RC, I can only hope they will, but without those
three, F1RC is severly lacking. Is has the potential to become the
best modern F1 sim, while playing the demo I was sure it would be,
that's why it was such a disappointment when I tried the AI or
multiplayer.
Let's wait untill april 16th and see what Ubi has in store for us.
Andre
Yes please, maybe my setups give me a wrong feedback.. please mail it
Andre
> > It wasn't until near the
> >end of beta testing that Papyrus had their mind changed by the testers.
> Thank God they did, I wonder if GPL would still be as populair as it
> is now without the multiplayer..
Who cares? I'll treat whoever I want the way I want.
--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...
-- http://www.ymenard.com/
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...
It is. At least it has been for me.
I also said, "Nobody loves
online racing more than me, but I'm not disappointed by the low number of
cars that can race online (compared to N4). From my four years of online
racing experience, it's almost impossible to find a field of more than six
quality drivers. You just end up wasting hours of your life with morons who
either can't make it past the first turn without wrecking, or who purposely
ruin races. Yes, a league may solve those problems, but I simply cannot
commit to a set time to race others."
David G Fisher
> But wait, you said the multiplayer was excellent.
> > It's just amazing the way developers not named Papyrus are treated on
this
> > newsgroup.
> Who cares? I'll treat whoever I want the way I want.
> --
> -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
> -- May the Downforce be with you...
> -- http://www.ymenard.com/
> -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez
> Corporation - helping America into the New World...
So you say, David. You and...
If it doesn't have MP, it better have something else pretty darn
interesting, or I'm not buying. I think "a lot of people" are of the
same mind, going by your definition above.
Oh, I'm gonna cry now.
PS - Just got 1NSANE today after playing the demo for two weeks.
What will Papyrus do, with me two-timing them? :)
"But in a way, fear is a big part of racing, because if there was
nothing to be frightened of, and no limit, any fool could get into
a motor car and racing would not exist as a sport." -- Jim Clark
It's a 2-year old mentality... :(
Eldred
--
Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
F1 hcp. +28.67...F2 +151.26...
Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
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>I seriously doubt it. I ran one championship (novice) against the AI and
>haven't raced them since. Once you get a taste of online competition it's
>pretty hard to go back to computer opponents.
Eldred
--
Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
F1 hcp. +28.67...F2 +151.26...
Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.
