rec.autos.simulators

F1RC---Almost Perfect

David G Fishe

F1RC---Almost Perfect

by David G Fishe » Wed, 28 Mar 2001 08:31:39

First, the negative. That's what most here love to dwell on anyway. :-P

AI needs a patch. Some of the AI cars are fine, others are screwed up for
some reason. I'll bet all of Andre and Jan's favorite summer sundresses that
Ubi fixes this with a patch very soon. I've found that when battling with
the "good AI", most of the collisions are caused by me.

The great.

Physics, graphics, controller smoothness and accuracy, setup options, and
the inclusion of all the details which round out the F1 experience (track
accuracy and details, pit stops--both accuracy, animation, and the ability
to manually control everything, rules, flags, weather, telemetry, separate
and accurate car models, *** build up and grip change, radio
communication with the pit crew, etc.).

The very good.

Sound, weather, UI, and multiplayer.

The Unknown:

Force Feedback

---------------------------------------------
Graphics:

No need to go on and on about this because most of us have seen how amazing
they are. Best ever. Not just because it looks fantastic, but because it
runs so damn smoothly compared to everything else. It's a fantastic graphics
engine. Also, viewing distance is 1,500 meters, which eliminates all
clipping. Even the pit stop animation is superb.

Physics:

I honestly don't understand how people who are serious about auto simulators
can sit down with a new sim for a few hours and then come to a conclusion as
to how good the physics are, or say conclusively how it "feels". It's taken
me 10 days before I've felt I've that I've approached the true potential of
this sim's physics enough to give an opinion. On expert level, they are
FANTASTIC. The "hovercraft" references by some amaze me. It's just the
opposite for me. I've never received more feedback, and been able to dance
on the edge with a sim as I can with F1RC. To do this with a modern F1 sim
is a very pleasant surprise considering how these cars are so stiff
(suspensions are 10x stiffer than a '67 F1 car) and twitchy in real life.
I've put in some serious practice at Imola (one of my favorite tracks) and
can consistently run very clean laps of 1:22, with a best of 1:21.504. You
can download this at the http://www.racesimcentral.net/
you'd like. It's an absolute blast to push these cars to the limit. The
accurate physics, and the visual and audio feedback I receive is what
enables this. The tires start ***ing and the car shakes as I approach the
edge. Whether it's at a hairpin or highspeed turn, I get exactly the
feedback I need to keep the car at it's limit without losing it. The rear
end doesn't just break free for no reason as some have said (setup or
controller changes may help those who insist that it does this). Exactly the
opposite. I know exactly what each wheel is doing. It just takes some
practice to get in tune with the car, as it does with any quality sim
(remember GPL?). I can catch the rear end when it starts to let go. I can 4
wheel drift and recover. Not easy to do in real life with a modern F1 car,
and not easy to do in F1 RC, but it CAN be done with both using real life
driving techniques. I agree that there isn't***pit movement in the default
***pit view, but there is in***pit view #2. Not a lot though, because it
wouldn't be realistic if there was. Modern F1 cars don't pitch and roll when
they sit 75 mm off the ground. Even my girlfriend's Honda doesn't pitch and
roll. I really don't know what some of you expect sometimes. This isn't
1967. Simple setup changes like raising the default steering lock will
enable you to get a better feel for what the car is doing. Setup changes in
F1RC have an accurate impact on how the car behaves (BTW, the default setups
are very good). There is the option to use worn tires in the race, and tire
temps seem accurate, especially the way the warm up after a lap or two. One
very nice and accurate part of the game is how the car gets loose as you get
close to an opponent due to the dirty air. This IS how a modern F1 car would
feel if it used the oh so holy GPL physics model. F12000CS has a very good
physics model, but not as good as this. GP3 just seems too easy now (too
much grip).

Sound:

I'm not thrilled with the engine and collision sounds, but they grow on you.
No developer will ever simulate the engine sound a driver hears under their
helmet anyway. What's important is how well the tire sounds convey to you
what the wheels are doing. As I said above, they do an excellent job of
that.

Weather:

Looks great, and seems very accurate to me. Weather is an important part of
F1 racing, and it's inclusion is an absolute necessity. The weather changes
during the race, and there is rain at different parts of the track at times.
You can even see the rain off in the distance at another part of the track.
A dry line forms as the race progresses.

Controller performance:

The steering, throttle, and brake control and smoothness is fantastic. For
me, it's the best yet. Very smooth and progressive. None of that on/off
nonsense that some sims have.

UI:

Easy to use and just as importantly, the screens and track load very
quickly.

Multiplayer:

With 6 cars or less, it's excellent. No lag or warping. No disco's.
Hopefully Ubi will patch it so more can cars can run smoothly. Nobody loves
online racing more than me, but I'm not disappointed by the low number of
cars that can race online (compared to N4). From my four years of online
racing experience, it's almost impossible to find a field of more than six
quality drivers. You just end up wasting hours of your life with morons who
either can't make it past the first turn without wrecking, or who purposely
ruin races. Yes, a league may solve those problems, but I simply cannot
commit to a set time to race others.

Force Feedback:

I don't know how good it is. My girlfriend hit me over the head with my ff
wheel and broke it. Some say it feels great, while others have problems. The
optimum setting may have not have been found by some yet, or there may be
bugs with some controllers.

This is the best sim yet (yes, I said it and I mean it). Sorry GPL and
members of the GPL cult. If you don't like modern F1, or if you prefer
historic F1 or NASCAR, then you may want to stay with those sims. Otherwise,
F1RC is excellent in almost every area. I don't see how this sim cannot be
considered the best yet. With a patch for the AI (which N4 needs desperately
as well), it will be as close to the ultimate sim as we've seen so far. Now,
since this is r.a.s. and basically a Papyrus forum, don't think I expect the
majority to agree with me. That's all right by me, and actually very
reassuring.

David G Fisher

Mike

F1RC---Almost Perfect

by Mike » Wed, 28 Mar 2001 09:35:45

Well, are you going to make her pay for a new one :)

Rod Princ

F1RC---Almost Perfect

by Rod Princ » Wed, 28 Mar 2001 09:54:16


says...

Essentially sums up my experience with the sim. I too don't know
how so many people can critisise it to the extent that they do.
Some even claiming this is the worst piece of software they have
ever purchased.

I hope the AI patch comes out too. When I'm racing, the majority
of the time I'm hit by the AI is when I brake too early or too hard
and recent F1 events have shown an instance of two of what happens
when you brake unexpectedly. I've also had the AI turn in on me
when I've been infront of them and inside of them in a corner as
if I wasn't even there. Unsure if it's driver error being simulated
or just a negative aspect of the AI.

I like the way they pull over during a fast lap in warmup or qual,
but they generally pull over infront of me or slowdown in a way
that interrupts my fast lap.

The only beef I have with the sound is the changeup/changedown
in higher gears. My LWFF occassionally doesn't register a change
in gear prolly due to a dirty switch, but I don't like having to
look down at my wheel to see what gear I'm in because occassionally
there's no audible indication of a gear change. I find the incar
sound to be a decent representation of what I would expect to hear
inside a***pit.

When I read that the car feels it's on a wheel located at the
centre of the car, I could understand why they felt that way.
Possibly due to the front wheels not graphically showing as sharp
a turn as the car was making.

I don't know how accurately Imola is modelled, but I love lapping
it too. ;)

Cheers,
Rod.

Ben Colema

F1RC---Almost Perfect

by Ben Colema » Wed, 28 Mar 2001 09:59:46

What is a reasonable system to run F1RC satisfactorily?

Ben


>First, the negative. That's what most here love to dwell on anyway. :-P

>AI needs a patch. Some of the AI cars are fine, others are screwed up for
>some reason. I'll bet all of Andre and Jan's favorite summer sundresses
that
>Ubi fixes this with a patch very soon. I've found that when battling with
>the "good AI", most of the collisions are caused by me.

>The great.

>Physics, graphics, controller smoothness and accuracy, setup options, and
>the inclusion of all the details which round out the F1 experience (track
>accuracy and details, pit stops--both accuracy, animation, and the ability
>to manually control everything, rules, flags, weather, telemetry, separate
>and accurate car models, *** build up and grip change, radio
>communication with the pit crew, etc.).

>The very good.

>Sound, weather, UI, and multiplayer.

>The Unknown:

>Force Feedback

>---------------------------------------------
>Graphics:

>No need to go on and on about this because most of us have seen how amazing
>they are. Best ever. Not just because it looks fantastic, but because it
>runs so damn smoothly compared to everything else. It's a fantastic
graphics
>engine. Also, viewing distance is 1,500 meters, which eliminates all
>clipping. Even the pit stop animation is superb.

>Physics:

>I honestly don't understand how people who are serious about auto
simulators
>can sit down with a new sim for a few hours and then come to a conclusion
as
>to how good the physics are, or say conclusively how it "feels". It's taken
>me 10 days before I've felt I've that I've approached the true potential of
>this sim's physics enough to give an opinion. On expert level, they are
>FANTASTIC. The "hovercraft" references by some amaze me. It's just the
>opposite for me. I've never received more feedback, and been able to dance
>on the edge with a sim as I can with F1RC. To do this with a modern F1 sim
>is a very pleasant surprise considering how these cars are so stiff
>(suspensions are 10x stiffer than a '67 F1 car) and twitchy in real life.
>I've put in some serious practice at Imola (one of my favorite tracks) and
>can consistently run very clean laps of 1:22, with a best of 1:21.504. You
>can download this at the http://www.racesimcentral.net/
>you'd like. It's an absolute blast to push these cars to the limit. The
>accurate physics, and the visual and audio feedback I receive is what
>enables this. The tires start ***ing and the car shakes as I approach the
>edge. Whether it's at a hairpin or highspeed turn, I get exactly the
>feedback I need to keep the car at it's limit without losing it. The rear
>end doesn't just break free for no reason as some have said (setup or
>controller changes may help those who insist that it does this). Exactly
the
>opposite. I know exactly what each wheel is doing. It just takes some
>practice to get in tune with the car, as it does with any quality sim
>(remember GPL?). I can catch the rear end when it starts to let go. I can 4
>wheel drift and recover. Not easy to do in real life with a modern F1 car,
>and not easy to do in F1 RC, but it CAN be done with both using real life
>driving techniques. I agree that there isn't***pit movement in the
default
>cockpit view, but there is in***pit view #2. Not a lot though, because it
>wouldn't be realistic if there was. Modern F1 cars don't pitch and roll
when
>they sit 75 mm off the ground. Even my girlfriend's Honda doesn't pitch and
>roll. I really don't know what some of you expect sometimes. This isn't
>1967. Simple setup changes like raising the default steering lock will
>enable you to get a better feel for what the car is doing. Setup changes in
>F1RC have an accurate impact on how the car behaves (BTW, the default
setups
>are very good). There is the option to use worn tires in the race, and tire
>temps seem accurate, especially the way the warm up after a lap or two. One
>very nice and accurate part of the game is how the car gets loose as you
get
>close to an opponent due to the dirty air. This IS how a modern F1 car
would
>feel if it used the oh so holy GPL physics model. F12000CS has a very good
>physics model, but not as good as this. GP3 just seems too easy now (too
>much grip).

>Sound:

>I'm not thrilled with the engine and collision sounds, but they grow on
you.
>No developer will ever simulate the engine sound a driver hears under their
>helmet anyway. What's important is how well the tire sounds convey to you
>what the wheels are doing. As I said above, they do an excellent job of
>that.

>Weather:

>Looks great, and seems very accurate to me. Weather is an important part of
>F1 racing, and it's inclusion is an absolute necessity. The weather changes
>during the race, and there is rain at different parts of the track at
times.
>You can even see the rain off in the distance at another part of the track.
>A dry line forms as the race progresses.

>Controller performance:

>The steering, throttle, and brake control and smoothness is fantastic. For
>me, it's the best yet. Very smooth and progressive. None of that on/off
>nonsense that some sims have.

>UI:

>Easy to use and just as importantly, the screens and track load very
>quickly.

>Multiplayer:

>With 6 cars or less, it's excellent. No lag or warping. No disco's.
>Hopefully Ubi will patch it so more can cars can run smoothly. Nobody loves
>online racing more than me, but I'm not disappointed by the low number of
>cars that can race online (compared to N4). From my four years of online
>racing experience, it's almost impossible to find a field of more than six
>quality drivers. You just end up wasting hours of your life with morons who
>either can't make it past the first turn without wrecking, or who purposely
>ruin races. Yes, a league may solve those problems, but I simply cannot
>commit to a set time to race others.

>Force Feedback:

>I don't know how good it is. My girlfriend hit me over the head with my ff
>wheel and broke it. Some say it feels great, while others have problems.
The
>optimum setting may have not have been found by some yet, or there may be
>bugs with some controllers.

>This is the best sim yet (yes, I said it and I mean it). Sorry GPL and
>members of the GPL cult. If you don't like modern F1, or if you prefer
>historic F1 or NASCAR, then you may want to stay with those sims.
Otherwise,
>F1RC is excellent in almost every area. I don't see how this sim cannot be
>considered the best yet. With a patch for the AI (which N4 needs
desperately
>as well), it will be as close to the ultimate sim as we've seen so far.
Now,
>since this is r.a.s. and basically a Papyrus forum, don't think I expect
the
>majority to agree with me. That's all right by me, and actually very
>reassuring.

>David G Fisher

David G Fishe

F1RC---Almost Perfect

by David G Fishe » Wed, 28 Mar 2001 10:35:08

P450 and a TNT2 card should run it ok. You might have to turn down the draw
distance and some car detail.

David G Fisher


> What is a reasonable system to run F1RC satisfactorily?

> Ben


> >First, the negative. That's what most here love to dwell on anyway. :-P

> >AI needs a patch. Some of the AI cars are fine, others are screwed up for
> >some reason. I'll bet all of Andre and Jan's favorite summer sundresses
> that
> >Ubi fixes this with a patch very soon. I've found that when battling with
> >the "good AI", most of the collisions are caused by me.

> >The great.

> >Physics, graphics, controller smoothness and accuracy, setup options, and
> >the inclusion of all the details which round out the F1 experience (track
> >accuracy and details, pit stops--both accuracy, animation, and the
ability
> >to manually control everything, rules, flags, weather, telemetry,
separate
> >and accurate car models, *** build up and grip change, radio
> >communication with the pit crew, etc.).

> >The very good.

> >Sound, weather, UI, and multiplayer.

> >The Unknown:

> >Force Feedback

> >---------------------------------------------
> >Graphics:

> >No need to go on and on about this because most of us have seen how
amazing
> >they are. Best ever. Not just because it looks fantastic, but because it
> >runs so damn smoothly compared to everything else. It's a fantastic
> graphics
> >engine. Also, viewing distance is 1,500 meters, which eliminates all
> >clipping. Even the pit stop animation is superb.

> >Physics:

> >I honestly don't understand how people who are serious about auto
> simulators
> >can sit down with a new sim for a few hours and then come to a conclusion
> as
> >to how good the physics are, or say conclusively how it "feels". It's
taken
> >me 10 days before I've felt I've that I've approached the true potential
of
> >this sim's physics enough to give an opinion. On expert level, they are
> >FANTASTIC. The "hovercraft" references by some amaze me. It's just the
> >opposite for me. I've never received more feedback, and been able to
dance
> >on the edge with a sim as I can with F1RC. To do this with a modern F1
sim
> >is a very pleasant surprise considering how these cars are so stiff
> >(suspensions are 10x stiffer than a '67 F1 car) and twitchy in real life.
> >I've put in some serious practice at Imola (one of my favorite tracks)
and
> >can consistently run very clean laps of 1:22, with a best of 1:21.504.
You
> >can download this at the http://www.racesimcentral.net/
> >you'd like. It's an absolute blast to push these cars to the limit. The
> >accurate physics, and the visual and audio feedback I receive is what
> >enables this. The tires start ***ing and the car shakes as I approach
the
> >edge. Whether it's at a hairpin or highspeed turn, I get exactly the
> >feedback I need to keep the car at it's limit without losing it. The rear
> >end doesn't just break free for no reason as some have said (setup or
> >controller changes may help those who insist that it does this). Exactly
> the
> >opposite. I know exactly what each wheel is doing. It just takes some
> >practice to get in tune with the car, as it does with any quality sim
> >(remember GPL?). I can catch the rear end when it starts to let go. I can
4
> >wheel drift and recover. Not easy to do in real life with a modern F1
car,
> >and not easy to do in F1 RC, but it CAN be done with both using real life
> >driving techniques. I agree that there isn't***pit movement in the
> default
> >cockpit view, but there is in***pit view #2. Not a lot though, because
it
> >wouldn't be realistic if there was. Modern F1 cars don't pitch and roll
> when
> >they sit 75 mm off the ground. Even my girlfriend's Honda doesn't pitch
and
> >roll. I really don't know what some of you expect sometimes. This isn't
> >1967. Simple setup changes like raising the default steering lock will
> >enable you to get a better feel for what the car is doing. Setup changes
in
> >F1RC have an accurate impact on how the car behaves (BTW, the default
> setups
> >are very good). There is the option to use worn tires in the race, and
tire
> >temps seem accurate, especially the way the warm up after a lap or two.
One
> >very nice and accurate part of the game is how the car gets loose as you
> get
> >close to an opponent due to the dirty air. This IS how a modern F1 car
> would
> >feel if it used the oh so holy GPL physics model. F12000CS has a very
good
> >physics model, but not as good as this. GP3 just seems too easy now (too
> >much grip).

> >Sound:

> >I'm not thrilled with the engine and collision sounds, but they grow on
> you.
> >No developer will ever simulate the engine sound a driver hears under
their
> >helmet anyway. What's important is how well the tire sounds convey to you
> >what the wheels are doing. As I said above, they do an excellent job of
> >that.

> >Weather:

> >Looks great, and seems very accurate to me. Weather is an important part
of
> >F1 racing, and it's inclusion is an absolute necessity. The weather
changes
> >during the race, and there is rain at different parts of the track at
> times.
> >You can even see the rain off in the distance at another part of the
track.
> >A dry line forms as the race progresses.

> >Controller performance:

> >The steering, throttle, and brake control and smoothness is fantastic.
For
> >me, it's the best yet. Very smooth and progressive. None of that on/off
> >nonsense that some sims have.

> >UI:

> >Easy to use and just as importantly, the screens and track load very
> >quickly.

> >Multiplayer:

> >With 6 cars or less, it's excellent. No lag or warping. No disco's.
> >Hopefully Ubi will patch it so more can cars can run smoothly. Nobody
loves
> >online racing more than me, but I'm not disappointed by the low number of
> >cars that can race online (compared to N4). From my four years of online
> >racing experience, it's almost impossible to find a field of more than
six
> >quality drivers. You just end up wasting hours of your life with morons
who
> >either can't make it past the first turn without wrecking, or who
purposely
> >ruin races. Yes, a league may solve those problems, but I simply cannot
> >commit to a set time to race others.

> >Force Feedback:

> >I don't know how good it is. My girlfriend hit me over the head with my
ff
> >wheel and broke it. Some say it feels great, while others have problems.
> The
> >optimum setting may have not have been found by some yet, or there may be
> >bugs with some controllers.

> >This is the best sim yet (yes, I said it and I mean it). Sorry GPL and
> >members of the GPL cult. If you don't like modern F1, or if you prefer
> >historic F1 or NASCAR, then you may want to stay with those sims.
> Otherwise,
> >F1RC is excellent in almost every area. I don't see how this sim cannot
be
> >considered the best yet. With a patch for the AI (which N4 needs
> desperately
> >as well), it will be as close to the ultimate sim as we've seen so far.
> Now,
> >since this is r.a.s. and basically a Papyrus forum, don't think I expect
> the
> >majority to agree with me. That's all right by me, and actually very
> >reassuring.

> >David G Fisher

David G Fishe

F1RC---Almost Perfect

by David G Fishe » Wed, 28 Mar 2001 10:36:17

No, I'll be paying for it. I'm always paying for something. :-)

David G Fisher


BRH

F1RC---Almost Perfect

by BRH » Wed, 28 Mar 2001 11:05:37

Also, You said:
"My girlfriend hit me over the head with my ff wheel and broke it. Some say it
feels great...."

Was that the FF that felt great, or your head?  8-)

(Sorry....couldn't resist.)

Bert

David G Fishe

F1RC---Almost Perfect

by David G Fishe » Wed, 28 Mar 2001 11:11:57

My head felt better than my ears from the screaming which came before,
during, and after the hit. :-)

Can you copy and paste the post the post you replied to which contains the
line, "OK, Do you know where F1RC can be found in the US?  I don't see it
anywhere yet."

That post isn't showing up on my newsreader.

David G Fisher

you replied to so I can see it?


> > OK, Do you know where F1RC can be found in the US?  I don't see it
anywhere
> > yet.

> Also, You said:
> "My girlfriend hit me over the head with my ff wheel and broke it. Some
say it
> feels great...."

> Was that the FF that felt great, or your head?  8-)

> (Sorry....couldn't resist.)

> Bert

ymenar

F1RC---Almost Perfect

by ymenar » Wed, 28 Mar 2001 11:21:47


> The very good.

> Sound, weather, UI, and multiplayer.

The very bad.

Sound, Multiplayer and AI.

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...
-- http://www.ymenard.com/
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...

BRH

F1RC---Almost Perfect

by BRH » Wed, 28 Mar 2001 11:58:18

I probably screwed up in quoting your post.  The question about where one can
find F1RC in the US was my question.....and it was in the same post as my
wise-guy comment about your head.  8-)

Sorry for the confusion.

So, where can I find it?


> My head felt better than my ears from the screaming which came before,
> during, and after the hit. :-)

> Can you copy and paste the post the post you replied to which contains the
> line, "OK, Do you know where F1RC can be found in the US?  I don't see it
> anywhere yet."

> That post isn't showing up on my newsreader.

> David G Fisher

> you replied to so I can see it?

> > > OK, Do you know where F1RC can be found in the US?  I don't see it
> anywhere
> > > yet.

> > Also, You said:
> > "My girlfriend hit me over the head with my ff wheel and broke it. Some
> say it
> > feels great...."

> > Was that the FF that felt great, or your head?  8-)

> > (Sorry....couldn't resist.)

> > Bert

--
Bert
Jagg

F1RC---Almost Perfect

by Jagg » Wed, 28 Mar 2001 12:10:47



I made that reference in here. Does the full version have a different
physics engine than the demo? If not, I can only surmise that you have
wet your knickers over the graphics and are glossing over the reality
of the physics engine.

David G Fishe

F1RC---Almost Perfect

by David G Fishe » Wed, 28 Mar 2001 12:39:51

In the demo, you are not in expert mode because expert mode is not
available. Like I said, if you are expecting a lot of pitch and roll, then
you must be living 35 years in the past.

David G Fisher




> >The "hovercraft" references by some amaze me.

> I made that reference in here. Does the full version have a different
> physics engine than the demo? If not, I can only surmise that you have
> wet your knickers over the graphics and are glossing over the reality
> of the physics engine.

David G Fishe

F1RC---Almost Perfect

by David G Fishe » Wed, 28 Mar 2001 12:41:43

Here in the U.S., it isn't available yet and I don't know when it will be. I
always phone order European releases from www.gameplay.com

David G Fisher


> I probably screwed up in quoting your post.  The question about where one
can
> find F1RC in the US was my question.....and it was in the same post as my
> wise-guy comment about your head.  8-)

> Sorry for the confusion.

> So, where can I find it?


> > My head felt better than my ears from the screaming which came before,
> > during, and after the hit. :-)

> > Can you copy and paste the post the post you replied to which contains
the
> > line, "OK, Do you know where F1RC can be found in the US?  I don't see
it
> > anywhere yet."

> > That post isn't showing up on my newsreader.

> > David G Fisher

> > you replied to so I can see it?



- Show quoted text -

ymenar

F1RC---Almost Perfect

by ymenar » Wed, 28 Mar 2001 13:17:50


> you must be living 35 years in the past.

Yeah, that was *so* subliminal by you.

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...
-- http://www.ymenard.com/
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...

David G Fishe

F1RC---Almost Perfect

by David G Fishe » Wed, 28 Mar 2001 13:30:07

I said what I did because GPL gives you so much***pit movement due to the
soft suspensions of late '60's F1 cars. Modern day F1 cars are stiff as
hell. I don't even know if Jagg plays GPL regularly, but I'm sure he's
played it at least a bit, and understands what I was referring to.

David G Fisher



> > you must be living 35 years in the past.

> Yeah, that was *so* subliminal by you.

> --
> -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
> -- May the Downforce be with you...
> -- http://www.racesimcentral.net/
> -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez
> Corporation - helping America into the New World...


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