rec.autos.simulators

by **Gerry Aitke** » Thu, 17 May 2001 05:55:23

> Rather than the usual bullshit about how his talent has finally won out and
> such all he could keep mentioning was how lucky he was to even have the
> opportunity because of the extreme difficulty in even participating in
> motorsports at all.

> " Right now there's somebody out there driving a truck who would be the best
> that ever was and we'll never know because he'll never even get a shot at
> it."

> A rather refreshing rookie point of view.

Schumacher said a very similar thing when some brain dead interviewer
asked, 'What's it like to be the best racing driver in the world?'
,Michael just said something like, 'I don't know, the best driver in the
world could be sitting in the grandstand or watching TV and just doesn't
know he could be the best'. I can't remember exactly what he said but
that was the drift.

Best

Gerry

by **Davi** » Thu, 17 May 2001 06:27:14

Well from my reading on many a Racer maginzine it seems that Juan just
carries himself a certain way that tends to upset people. Little Al got
all bent out of shape at Indy last year with him if people remember.

Dave

by **Phaso** » Thu, 17 May 2001 07:26:33

Having done quite a bit of sim racing and watching a lot of races, it seems
to me that when there is an obviously slow car at the front that is holding
up traffic, and the car behind him has almost been able to pass *on the
outside* for several corners, the lead car has 2 options: 1) let the car
pass - it's early in the race, there will be many opportunities to make it
up including a pit, and it's too risky to block with that many cars so close
or 2) try to block the guy for the next 50 laps or so, going side by side
into corners, until somebody (I don't care *how* good they are) finally
makes a minor mistake and wrecks both cars, possibly more.

Obvious answer. Am I missing something?

-Phasor

by **Jan Verschuere** » Thu, 17 May 2001 07:27:25

Thanks. I enjoyed it too... and they say conversation is a lost art. ;-)

I remember Mario was livid. Don't remember seeing or reading about Juan's
reaction, but I'll take your word for it.

Both drivers were quoted too soon after the accident, for sure. The
experienced Schumacher caught himself and toned down his statement at the
next opportunity, while JPM perhaps didn't think twice about it. He'll
learn... no worries.

Hmmm... he should have enough experience in that respect from the street
races he did in CART. Perhaps this even gave him the confidence to attempt
to prevent the pass. Could there have been a biggewr difference between full
slicks and grooved tyres than he expected?

Possibly, but I think that would be rather futile in view of the changes in
the track due to the atmospheric conditions and support series possibly
spoiling relatively clean parts.

Jan.
=---

by **Thom j** » Thu, 17 May 2001 07:36:18

A voice of reason Phasor? How dare you do such a thing here!!
Go to your room right now without ur supper!! :o)~

<snipped>
| Obvious answer. Am I missing something?
| -Phasor

by **Ben Colema** » Thu, 17 May 2001 10:17:53

>The main problem with what Montoya did was that he knew he was holding up
>five other cars (lapping 1-2 seconds slower) yet still decided to make a
>very risky move to defend his position. Even though he was in first place
at
>the time of the incident, he was basically a backmarker who was creating a
>conga line behind him. All forgivable if his childish comments afterward
>didn't indicate he would do the same thing under the same circumstances.

>David G Fisher

IMO, it's an unfortunate effect of F1 at the moment that MS had to make such
a risky move to pass. He couldn't get close at other places on the track
due to aerodynamics at some points and power (it seemed) at others. The
sweeping left before the hard right was the only place he was getting a good
run on JPM. By the time JPM would have realised he had braked too
late....he had already braked too late. Great skill by MS to miss him IMO.
Overall, a racing incident. It would be nice if some compromise was found
so that cars could still perform while close behind another but it seems
that is hard to achieve without restricting the "cutting edge" that makes F1
what it is.

Ben

by **Dave Henri** » Thu, 17 May 2001 12:42:48

It is a problem that is affecting several series, not just F1.
And it is a problem that will need a solution before too much longer.
dave henrie

(snippy)
It would be nice if some compromise was found

by **Mart** » Thu, 17 May 2001 16:29:54

>D&S Schwabe wrote...
>> This is an aside... but I enjoyed reading your debate...
>> neither one of you got bent out of shape and kept it above
>> board... well done. :-)

>Thanks. I enjoyed it too... and they say conversation is a lost art. ;-)

Thanks, Me too... - oh no, a "me too" post ;-)

That's for sure. Maybe JPM needs a better PR advisor who can convince him
to tone it down a bit - but then maybe that's a part of his image.

Possibly - the michelin tyres are said to become quite bad for a couple of
laps a few laps after the start before getting better agian. (that's what
they said on our TV). That also would explain why he was suddenly 2 secs
slower than the rest but could more or less keep up the pace later.

Martin

by **Gregor Vebl** » Thu, 17 May 2001 17:32:29

Hi David!

But that's what racing is about! Running first is certainly not being a
backmarker, even though your car is slower. You indeed should not hold
back the drivers that are lapping you, but certainly you are entitled to
your position and line as long as you are running in a higher position
than the car behind you. There is absolutely nothing wrong with holding
five cars behind you, as long as ou stay within the rules. Which Montoya
did. He has every right to do so in the next race, I (and FIA as well)
don't see anything wrong with that.

In fact, it was one of the most memorable moments of last season when
one of the Minardis fought for position (not being lapped) with Hakkinen
at Indy. Was he slower? Certainly. Should he let Hakkinen by without
giving a fight? Certainly not!

-Gregor

> The main problem with what Montoya did was that he knew he was holding up
> five other cars (lapping 1-2 seconds slower) yet still decided to make a
> very risky move to defend his position. Even though he was in first place at
> the time of the incident, he was basically a backmarker who was creating a
> conga line behind him. All forgivable if his childish comments afterward
> didn't indicate he would do the same thing under the same circumstances.

> David G Fisher

by **Neil Rain** » Thu, 17 May 2001 18:03:55

I think so.

IMHO the most entertaining part of the race was watching the two Williams
drivers trying to cope with their tyres going off: Montoya did a great job
of holding back the other drivers for a while, which was justified, as he
knew that the Michelin tyres would go off for a few laps and then come back.
This means he knew that if he could stay in the lead for the next few laps
he would then be able to get back on the pace and possibly win the race.

This is the type of situation where the drivers really earn their money:
they may not be in the fastest car at that particular moment, but if they
are skilfull enough they can still win.

Unfortunately, as it turned out, he wasn't *quite* skilfull enough.... ;-)

On second thoughts: actually the most entertaining part of the race was the
bit where Schumacher got taken out! ;-)

by **David Kar** » Thu, 17 May 2001 20:36:06

Gregor,

Agreed, and 100% well put. So long as JPM wasn't weaving on the straights,
brake-testing the others, etc., he had every right to make it as difficult
as possible for anyone to (ahem) take the position from him. It may have
been that he was hoping to do this until his pit window opened so that he
would not have so much time to make up after the pit.

One of the classic races of all time was when Gilles Villeneuve managed to
keep five other cars behind him in a similar queue for practically an entire
race (Spain, 1982? 1981?). His Ferrari handled like a pig, but its power
and GV's willingness to hurl it through the twisty bits kept him ahead when
it counted. (I've never seen the race, but I've read about it and
commentators bring it up often.)

One can (slightly) knock JPM for a driving error (braking too late,
partially on a dirty portion of track), but I don't see any sort of
deliberate move there. If we *really* want to see close and heated racing,
then we need to be ready fro these types of things to happen and not start
whinging every time it does. Schu simply got caught out, having already
committed himself to late-braking as well. I think his post-post-race
comment indicates that he's quite willing to see it that way, if that's what
the cameras relate.

cheers,
David Karr

by **Kevin Gavit** » Fri, 18 May 2001 00:15:59

> >D&S Schwabe wrote...
> >> This is an aside... but I enjoyed reading your debate...
> >> neither one of you got bent out of shape and kept it above
> >> board... well done. :-)

> >Thanks. I enjoyed it too... and they say conversation is a lost art. ;-)

> Thanks, Me too... - oh no, a "me too" post ;-)

> >Both drivers were quoted too soon after the accident, for sure. The
> >experienced Schumacher caught himself and toned down his statement at
> >the next opportunity, while JPM perhaps didn't think twice about it.

> That's for sure. Maybe JPM needs a better PR advisor who can convince him
> to tone it down a bit - but then maybe that's a part of his image.

> > Could there have been a biggewr difference
> >between full slicks and grooved tyres than he expected?

> Possibly - the michelin tyres are said to become quite bad for a couple of
> laps a few laps after the start before getting better agian. (that's what
> they said on our TV). That also would explain why he was suddenly 2 secs
> slower than the rest but could more or less keep up the pace later.

> Martin

AND. . . would explain to a greater degree his desperation to hold the
place. He knew he only had to hang on for a limited number of laps, not the
whole race.

KFG

by **Kevin Gavit** » Fri, 18 May 2001 00:21:55

That's why they call it racing, not hotlapping. Otherwise everybody could go
home after qualifing, turn the whole thing into hillclimb type event, a
short time trial.

Racing is a man to man contest, for it to remain such the men must
*contest.*

KFG

by **Kasper Kowalsk** » Fri, 18 May 2001 00:28:50

you mean you would dare ask MS to earn his exorbitant pay? :P

KK

by **Scott B. Huste** » Fri, 18 May 2001 00:31:23

Oh Ouch... that was just plain rude and cruel Graeme! ;)

ymenard... could you help me pull this knife out of my back??? =)

--
Scott B. Husted
PA-Scott
ICQ# 4395450

"Graeme Nash"

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