It makes no difference whether the driver overtaking you is a WC or not.
--
Ian P
<email invalid due to spam>
> So?
Montoya was on the inside of the circuit to prevent Michael from placing his
car there and getting a run up the inside on him which, as you saw (with the
positions reversed), is impossible to defend against.
Ok, so JPM lost it on the brakes and possibly caused the accident, but he
had every right to defend his position in the way he intended. It just went
wrong, that's all.
Jan.
=----
"Pay attention when I'm talking to you boy!" -Foghorn Leghorn.
Ok so he's unapologetic about the incident, which is not really
professional. He's not been in F1 long, he'll learn. However, from the quote
in David's post I read "I was not going to give away 1st position just
because it was Schumacher behind me!" into Juan's slightly broken English.
Not: "Us touching was Michael's fault."
He braked too late for the surface conditions, sure. But he didn't "keep
going" as he didn't hit the gravel at 185mph. IMO he made a credible effort
to get it stopped, but nearly lost the car and blew the corner.
I'm sure Michael didn't feel he was ahead sufficiently to squeeze the
Columbian out to the inside otherwise he would have done so.
Yes, but not slow enough to miss JPM as he lost control. Surely someone of
Schumacher's experience saw that coming a mile away. JPM is aiming to
replace Michael as the alpha male of F1, he was always going to risk going
deep on the inside in defense of that position.
True, I have no trouble with their reasoning, but I thought the way they did
it was actually illegal according to FIA rules, i.e. they should have been
more covert about it.
Yes, as Asbjorn pointed out, if Barichello had managed to push Coulthard
into a mistake, even if he was the only one to benifit from it, Coulthard
would have maximally gained 2 points. Didn't think of that.
Jan.
=---
Jan./maybe I should start taking some pills or something...
=---
isn't in America.
Well if it AIN't here in America...then why they heck are you talking
about it??? :) <VBG>
dave (we got this little ol track here you may have heard of....) henrie
>BUT
>Schumacher decided to join him
Your friend,
Lol SF.
David G Fisher
> >"He owes his survival today to Ayrton Senna, who died in a spectacular
> >crash
> > at America's Imola track in 1994." -- David G Fisher, the F1 'expert'.
> Huh? To which driver was David referring here?
> Andre
In the story I quoted from, there were no other quotes by Berger.
http://www.atlasf1.com/news/
David G Fisher
> here is another quote, by 'the other' Schumacher at the press conference
> (from www.formula1.com ):
> 'I was a little bit upset obviously because there was no way he could
> make that corner and all he was trying to do is to take me with him out
> of the circuit. And, I mean he was lost anyway, and to do something to
> me, I thought it wasn't really what he should have done, because I had
> to go into the grass, I couldn't turn in. I nearly hit him.'
> Basically, he accused Montoya of deliberately trying to push him off the
> track. Sure, J.P.M. made a mistake, we all saw that, but it was hardly a
> deliberate effort. Surely not a comment a current World Champion should
> make.
> In this context, I hardly find Montoya's remarks childish, especially
> since he accuses M.S. of the mind games the German is actually quite
> keen of playing (think of his downplaying of Coulthard's chances for the
> title). To see that indeed Montoya is not by nature acting childishly,
> just think about how he reacted to the incomprehensible Verstappen
> incident in Brazil. There he set an example for the whole sport to
> follow.
> And I'm saying this even though I am quite fond of the German and his
> style.
> -Gregor
> P.S.: Where did you find the Berger quote, I'd love to read the whole
> story.
> > Please, no more Montoya hype until he actually starts winning races. His
> > attitude is childish. This was the first race he even qualified higher
than
> > R. Schumacher (by one position), and his defense of the 1st place
position
> > was pretty poor. He was holding up five other cars, not just Schumacher,
and
> > then made a really dumb defensive maneuver when Schumacher tried to get
by.
> > "I'm racing, so I'm not going to let people by. If they can't get by me,
> > then they should get out," he said. "He thinks 'I'm Michael so you've
got to
> > let me by.'"
> > BMW Motorsport director Gerhard Berger, who has been very impressed by
the
> > Williams driver so far this season, allowed his disappointment to show.
> > "We all know well that Montoya doesn't really make room (for others).
You
> > only come out the winner from something like that if overall you remain
in
> > the lead," he said.
> > David G Fisher
=========================
Subject: Re: F1 Safety
Newsgroups: rec.autos.simulators
Date: 2001-03-02 19:06:49 PST
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/dynamic/sport/story.html?in_review_id=3...
n_review_text_id=312612
What I've been saying all along.
From the article:
<snip>
He owes his survival today to Ayrton Senna, who died in a spectacular crash
at America's Imola track in 1994. The Formula 1 industry was so shocked that
it drew up a strict new code ensuring that Grand Prix cars would offer the
highest level of protection.
=============================
You did write that quote, and were enough idiotic to trust somebody who
would write such idiotic things. "What I've been saying all along" implies
that you perfectly agree with the writer's words, thus making you a fool
also.
--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...
-- http://www.ymenard.com/
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...
Next.
David G Fisher
> =========================
> Subject: Re: F1 Safety
> Newsgroups: rec.autos.simulators
> Date: 2001-03-02 19:06:49 PST
Hmm.. I meant he kept going beyond the point where he shoud have breaked
- not that he didn't break at all.
Not sure what you're saying here? - You'll have to leave your opponent
some space to survive, i.e. both drivers stay on their line until the
pass is complete. MS wasn't ahead enough to return to the inside line
before entering the corner but he was ahead enough to use the outside
line in the corner and expect JPM to stay on the inside line.
That's probably why they both "survived" this thing - MS suspected that
something like that might happen.
In any case you can't really expect the passing driver to take all
possible driving errors into account and pass only when it's absolutly
safe.
So are you saying "you may not pass Montoya"? After all if you try to
pass on the inside he might decide to squeeze you in there too.
Using a defensive line is racing - however you have to leave you opponent
some space to survive and concentrate on racing and not on prevent the
other from overtaking at all costs - this is F1 not stockcar after all
*g*
Regards
Martin
> Next.
--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...
-- http://www.ymenard.com/
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...
What a champion! pfft
> > HE DID NOT RUN THE WORLD CHAMPION OFF THE ROAD - HE NEVER HIT HIM.
> That turn reminds me alot of the last race of the season, several years
> ago, when Jacques V. Caught and passed MS(and thereby clinched the
> Championship--Mika's first win also I believe). Same kind of situation
> except MS never locked up, never lost control, he just turned left instead
> of right....right into JV!
> dave henrie
> > Schimacher COULD - if he'd used his brain, slowed down, watched montoya
> > slide of the road - THEN pull across onto the line and driven away in
the
> > lead
> > Schumacher CLEARLY saw the problem - he swerved once, but didnt slow
down.
> > Montoya's mistake was to brake too late - and he took himself off as a
> > results
> > BUT
> > Schumacher decided to join him
> > Incidentally - what the hell sort of difference does it make if its the
> > world champioon overtaking you or anyone else?
> > Doug
> > > > >Please, no more Montoya hype until he actually starts winning
races.
> > His
> > > > >attitude is childish. This was the first race he even qualified
> higher
> > > than
> > > > >R. Schumacher (by one position), and his defense of the 1st place
> > > position
> > > > >was pretty poor. He was holding up five other cars, not just
> > Schumacher,
> > > and
> > > > >then made a really dumb defensive maneuver when Schumacher tried to
> get
> > > by.
> > > > I don't think it was a dumb defensive maneuver. Juan had the inside
> > > > line (ie track position). Schumacher didn't. He should have let
him
> > > > by. But he didn't have to. It's called racing.
> > > While I didn't like the fact that he was holding up a line of
> considerably
> > > faster cars very early in the race, he technically wasn't doing
anything
> > > wrong. But when he drives in deep, locks up the tires, and then runs
the
> > > world champion off into the grass, then that is a dumb move. If it
> weren't
> > > for Schumi being best driver on the planet, Montoya probably would
have
> > > ended up taking out 5 other cars. I like Montoya, but that was totally
> > > unnecessary. In fact, it was just plain stupid. That being said, it
was
> > > still one of the more entertaining F1 races in recent memory.
> > > --
> > > Gary
