rec.autos.simulators

Linear/Non-linear very unscientific analysis: this isn't a troll either.

Mike Davi

Linear/Non-linear very unscientific analysis: this isn't a troll either.

by Mike Davi » Mon, 20 Apr 1998 04:00:00


> Some steering wheel theorists tell me to use full non-linear, others tell me
> go full linear, then another one tells me to go 3/4 linear.  I've been
> experimenting with all these settings and here are my personal findings:

> Full Non-linear steering -- great for controlling the car on a straight,
> lousy for cornering.

> Full linear steering -- great for cornering, lousy for controlling a car on
> the straight.

> Half linear Half Non-linear  -- lousy for cornering, so so for controlling a
> car on the straight.

> 3/4 Linear -- a little better than so so for cornering, a little lousier
> than so so for controlling a car on the straight.

> With linear steering, I hold my wheel by my finger tips on the straights
> because using a full hand grab on the wheel causes me to manhandle it,
> resulting in too much overcorrection.

> You know, I could use a really good steering wheel that doesn't wonder
> around 5-10 degrees from center, due to limp *** bands.  My Nascar Pro
> Wheel just does not do the job.

> I have to congratulate those people who can center their wheels precisely
> without the help of real steering torque.  Wouldn't it be nice though to be
> able to let the steering torque unwind the wheel exactly to center?  I
> wouldn't have to worry about overcorrecting would I now?

 Charles,
    I had some troubles with the steering at first. I use a pretty well broken
in GP-1 wheel and have found that you pretty much have to use linear steering
with the slider all the way to the left.
At least that's what works for me. Yes, it is twitchy at first, but it is
supposed to be that way. You will get used to it after awhile and you'll be
amazed at how much control you do have.
    Good luck, all the best, Mike

--
Michael S. Davis
Creative Media-Works
Computer/Audio/Video Convergence
"from Creative minds spring Creative solutions."
http://www.racesimcentral.net/


Charles Ma

Linear/Non-linear very unscientific analysis: this isn't a troll either.

by Charles Ma » Tue, 21 Apr 1998 04:00:00

Some steering wheel theorists tell me to use full non-linear, others tell me
go full linear, then another one tells me to go 3/4 linear.  I've been
experimenting with all these settings and here are my personal findings:

Full Non-linear steering -- great for controlling the car on a straight,
lousy for cornering.

Full linear steering -- great for cornering, lousy for controlling a car on
the straight.

Half linear Half Non-linear  -- lousy for cornering, so so for controlling a
car on the straight.

3/4 Linear -- a little better than so so for cornering, a little lousier
than so so for controlling a car on the straight.

With linear steering, I hold my wheel by my finger tips on the straights
because using a full hand grab on the wheel causes me to manhandle it,
resulting in too much overcorrection.

You know, I could use a really good steering wheel that doesn't wonder
around 5-10 degrees from center, due to limp *** bands.  My Nascar Pro
Wheel just does not do the job.

I have to congratulate those people who can center their wheels precisely
without the help of real steering torque.  Wouldn't it be nice though to be
able to let the steering torque unwind the wheel exactly to center?  I
wouldn't have to worry about overcorrecting would I now?

Grant Reev

Linear/Non-linear very unscientific analysis: this isn't a troll either.

by Grant Reev » Tue, 21 Apr 1998 04:00:00


> You know, I could use a really good steering wheel that doesn't wonder
> around 5-10 degrees from center, due to limp *** bands.  My Nascar Pro
> Wheel just does not do the job.

> I have to congratulate those people who can center their wheels precisely
> without the help of real steering torque.  Wouldn't it be nice though to be
> able to let the steering torque unwind the wheel exactly to center?  I
> wouldn't have to worry about overcorrecting would I now?

hmm, that would make it hard to steer, wouldn't it? I've got a 2
year old T2, and the steering bungy thing is still nice and tight,
centering the wheel to within about 1 degree when i let go. I find
it a breeze to drive straight in GPL, and have perfect control over
my cornering too, even though my soundcard gameport has about 3-4%
oscillation in the values it reads from my wheel pots. I've got the
linearity set to about 25% from the left, I like having the linear
response, but need a small amount of non-linearity to help with
driving in a straight line.
When I think about having a wheel that doesn't straighten up right, I
think "eeek!" :) i'd start having much more difficulty steering
straight.
Have you tried pulling off the cover and fiddling around with trying
to tighten up the bungy cord somehow?
In the meantime keep practising your very fine control steering,
you'll find you get better at it over time. The skill will come in
handy when you fix up your steering.

cheers,
Grant.

Matthew Knutse

Linear/Non-linear very unscientific analysis: this isn't a troll either.

by Matthew Knutse » Tue, 21 Apr 1998 04:00:00


> (snip)
> When I think about having a wheel that doesn't straighten up right, I
> think "eeek!" :) i'd start having much more difficulty steering
> straight.
> Have you tried pulling off the cover and fiddling around with trying
> to tighten up the bungy cord somehow?

Hehe..I dropped my T2 to the floor once, and the steering axle broke.
Tried gluing it, but that plastic never wants to be glued...So I went up
to the workshop, found a wheel from a Tiga FF2000, some aluminium, and I
took it all over to the lathe.
I have now got a very good feeling wheel, and I use no *** bands at
all, no springs, just a max lock stop.
Either have nice, tight bungy cords, or throw 'em out:))

  Good Advice! I had to work a whole lot of overtime last week, and was
off GPL for 4 days, and boy, was that car
nervous the first ten laps!!!:))

Cheers,
Matt

--
Matthew Knutsen

Cheek Racing Cars
http://www.racesimcentral.net/~kareknut/

Byron Forbe

Linear/Non-linear very unscientific analysis: this isn't a troll either.

by Byron Forbe » Tue, 21 Apr 1998 04:00:00


> You know, I could use a really good steering wheel that doesn't wonder
> around 5-10 degrees from center, due to limp *** bands.  My Nascar Pro
> Wheel just does not do the job.

   ROFL! Oh how grand this is! Overlooked this for over a week aye
Charles? Can't wait for your next post! I think I'll start compiling
data on you.

   Charle's brilliance to date;

   1/ Says GPL is arcade and anyone good at it is an arcade driver. LOL

   2/ Says GP2 is more realistic with opposite lock help and puts GPL to
shame. LOL

   3/ Claims steering response delay indicating poor fps and thus a poor
interporation of GPL. LOL

   4/ Tells us about his wheel with 5 - 10 deg of slop. LOL

    ROFL. Keep 'em comin' Charley!

Bruce Kennewel

Linear/Non-linear very unscientific analysis: this isn't a troll either.

by Bruce Kennewel » Tue, 21 Apr 1998 04:00:00


>You know, I could use a really good steering wheel that doesn't wonder
>around 5-10 degrees from center, due to limp *** bands.  My Nascar Pro
>Wheel just does not do the job.

Buy a TSW or one of the other, more expensive precision-engineered units.

----
Regards,

Bruce.

Barton Spencer Brow

Linear/Non-linear very unscientific analysis: this isn't a troll either.

by Barton Spencer Brow » Tue, 21 Apr 1998 04:00:00

I STILL thought you left...

BB

Barton Spencer Brow

Linear/Non-linear very unscientific analysis: this isn't a troll either.

by Barton Spencer Brow » Tue, 21 Apr 1998 04:00:00

I thought you left...

BB

Goy Larse

Linear/Non-linear very unscientific analysis: this isn't a troll either.

by Goy Larse » Tue, 21 Apr 1998 04:00:00



> > You know, I could use a really good steering wheel that doesn't wonder
> > around 5-10 degrees from center, due to limp *** bands.  My Nascar Pro
> > Wheel just does not do the job.

>    ROFL! Oh how grand this is! Overlooked this for over a week aye
> Charles? Can't wait for your next post! I think I'll start compiling
> data on you.

>    Charle's brilliance to date;

>    1/ Says GPL is arcade and anyone good at it is an arcade driver. LOL

>    2/ Says GP2 is more realistic with opposite lock help and puts GPL to
> shame. LOL

>    3/ Claims steering response delay indicating poor fps and thus a poor
> interporation of GPL. LOL

>    4/ Tells us about his wheel with 5 - 10 deg of slop. LOL

>     ROFL. Keep 'em comin' Charley!

Hi Byron

First of all, I think Carles` earlier postings here left a lot to be
desired, especially in the attitude department, he has however adjusted
that for some reason (don`t know why and I don`t really care) and for
that he at least deserves that replies to his postings/questions
contains something worth reading, IMHO

It`s not just you Byron, (you were just an easy pick :-), I see some of
the same attitude towards i.e. ymenard from time to time and he REALLY
has adjusted his attitude. I just think there is enough garbage flying
back and forth without people having to keep it up when there is no need
for it (is there ever ? :-)

In my opinion Charles you have some bad controller problem, not uncommon
with early Nascar PRO/F1 wheels, the bungee cord goes AWOL in a "very"
short time and you get very twitchy stearing, not speculation on my
part, I`m a Thrustmaster dealer so I "should" know, I`ve changed enough
of them already including the one on my personal wheel.

Contact Thrustmaster directly or the place where you bought it, they are
aware of the problem and are doing something about it

You could also try adding a gamecard, the Thrustmaster ACM is a good
choice and I`m sure there are others too, it helped me a lot, didn`t
drive any faster, but my consistency went way up

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy
UncleGoy on TEN

William Dahm

Linear/Non-linear very unscientific analysis: this isn't a troll either.

by William Dahm » Tue, 21 Apr 1998 04:00:00


> You know, I could use a really good steering wheel that doesn't wonder

> around 5-10 degrees from center, due to limp *** bands.  My Nascar
> Pro
> Wheel just does not do the job.

um, is it that hard to change the bungiee cords to new, stiffer
ones?p.s. when I had a T2 I felt the same way
Andy Thil

Linear/Non-linear very unscientific analysis: this isn't a troll either.

by Andy Thil » Tue, 21 Apr 1998 04:00:00

Agree 100% byron. This Charlie boy really needs to get his story straight,
cause I'm getting sick of his bullshit.

Krisstia

Linear/Non-linear very unscientific analysis: this isn't a troll either.

by Krisstia » Tue, 21 Apr 1998 04:00:00

I have found out that linear steering is equal pressure or equal turn-in
ratio to the amount of input.

Non-linear is ideal for steering wheels, the tires turn very little when the
steering wheel is turned for example when  within 50% of it's center (25% in
both directions). As you turn the steering wheel past it's 25% limit in one
direction, the tires will turn more.

Contrary to what is said, linear for keyboards & non-linear for steering
wheels. My guess is you would want non-linear on ovals tracks & linear on
street/road courses.


>Some steering wheel theorists tell me to use full non-linear, others tell
me
>go full linear, then another one tells me to go 3/4 linear.  I've been
>experimenting with all these settings and here are my personal findings:

Charles Ma

Linear/Non-linear very unscientific analysis: this isn't a troll either.

by Charles Ma » Tue, 21 Apr 1998 04:00:00

I thought I left too, but that Byron Forbes guy irritates me so much that I
think I'll stick around and feed his egomania a little more.



>I thought you left...

>BB

Peter Gag

Linear/Non-linear very unscientific analysis: this isn't a troll either.

by Peter Gag » Tue, 21 Apr 1998 04:00:00



> You know, I could use a really good steering wheel that doesn't
wond
> er
> around 5-10 degrees from center, due to limp *** bands.  My
Nasca
> r Pro
> Wheel just does not do the job.

Exactly!!! do you think this could be your problem? I think a lot of
these posts about linear or non linear are overlooking one thing, the
quality of the controller being used.

If you have a good quality controller, and its calibrated correctly,
you really should not have too much trouble going the right way on
the straights or the corners? NB: I think full linear control, eg:-
all the way to the *left*, or very near to the left, is better as
this gives a much more *responsive* feel to the handling.

Non-linear & Linear is like comparing analogue to digital
controllers. Digital is great for *on* & *off*, but analogue is great
for precise control and a progressive response.

But ultimately, it all depends on the quality of the equipment you
use, and the expertise of the person using the equipment.

Buy a quality wheel, practise lots, see the difference?

*Peter*  8-)

Barton Spencer Brow

Linear/Non-linear very unscientific analysis: this isn't a troll either.

by Barton Spencer Brow » Tue, 21 Apr 1998 04:00:00


> I thought I left too, but that Byron Forbes guy irritates me so much that I
> think I'll stick around and feed his egomania a little more.

Swell.

BB


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