rec.autos.simulators

Here is an easy solution for GPL steering difficulties for Papyrus to think
about:

When you are on a straight, the steering automatically goes to non-linear
and when you brake and enter a corner, the steering automatically goes to
linear.

You get the best of both worlds  a controlled ride on the straights and
precision steering in the corners.

But then again, maybe that is too complicated to do.  Any opinions?

I think would be fairly frustrating to get used to.

Bunch of end cases to deal with: what about when the car is on a
short straight between two curves in opposite direction? Is this a
time for linear or non-linear steering? Same for a short curve between
two straights. I would expect that I could set the car up such that a
constant steering angle (with the wheel) would cause the car to
describe a constant arc through the turn. When it didn't, I'd be
surprised, and when I couldn't figure out why, frustrated, and when I
finally *did* figure out why, I'd be cursing! :-)

What about a short "straight" between two curves in the same direction
(thinking of a 1/3-1/2 mile oval here). The car would "feel" wrong as
you set the car up, and exited turn 1 on the throttle with a fixed
steering input.

Overall, IMO this is a worse solution than a "reduce with speed", and
if that's what you really want, the above proposal is:

a. more difficult to engineer, balance and playtest.
b. might be exactly what you asked for, but not what you want.

---Jim

Jim,

Could this be implemented as a "reduce linearity with speed" option?
I don't think it would feel as unreal that way...  Any thoughts?

A. Renault

Antoine Renault wrote in >

Definitely, that way you could get the ease of going in a straight line
without losing the maximum lock to get yourself out of trouble.

Steve

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Steve at RXspeed7 racing

Visit the RXspeed7 page at...
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% I'm not sure I'm interpreting you correctly, but you're not losing
% maximum lock with non-linear steering. 100% steering wheel deflection
% still translates to maximum wheel lock, same as with linear steering.
% It's just around the center that the steering wheel behaves less
% sensitive.

This is one of the areas where I noticed a marked difference between
linear and non-linear.  As the exiting of a corner is where one needs to
get on the power, I find that the wheel takes alot longer to straighten
out coming out of the turns (in the non-linear setting) and thus one can
not accelerate as strongly with the wheels still turned.  With the
non-linear settings the wheel does not straighten as fast or as
"smoothly" with a more linear setting.

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
     Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./.  [-  < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Besides that fact that the steering is twitchy with a full linear
setting on the straights, I find that alot of this comes from not being
smooth with the accelerator.  Due to the power of the Lotus, one really
needs to pay attention to easing on or off the accelerator.  The other
factor that comes into play is you must pay extra attention to the car's
balance when coming out of a turn and onto the straight.  If I have
the car properly balanced I don't find it too difficult to keep the car
straight.  However, if I have the car just slightly off balance as I come
onto the straights, it is a handful to keep the car in a straight line.
This is one of the reasons I enjoy the physics of GPL, it isn't just a
point and squirt simulation, it's a total package.

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
     Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./.  [-  < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

You're right, you're not interpreting me correctly :)

I meant that having a reduce maximum wheel lock with speed would be bad as
you couldn't get yourself out of trouble if it became necessary, but having
reduce linearity with speed option would help a lot of the people struggling
to get going in a straight line, without reducing the total lock for if it
was needed. (Personally I have no trouble going in a straight line, but
maybe if I was using a joystick I would?)

I'm not sure if that came out any better than before, but I tried :-)

Steve

A. Renault

I agree.

I think too much emphasis is placed on modifying control setups. Moving
from sim to sim inveitability requires some degree of learning the feel of
the controls, and you need to invest the time to get to grips with it.

For me the GPL demo has reinforced how much lap times come down with
practice rather than constantly changing setups or controller settings.

With just one slider to adjust I quickly settled to one I felt provided
adequate control for corners and straights and left it there.

After practice the times have steadily come down (still 2 secs off Mr
Mansell though).

I know I couldn't have resisted changing the setups or controller settings
if they had been available, because I wanted to blame the ill-handling car
- not my driving ability.

Now I'm sure with changes to the setup I could further reduce my times, but
I'm convinced I wouldn't have invested enough time exploring driving
technique compared to fixing it in the garage.

The GPL demo has changed my approach to car setups to put a lot more time
in to driving than tweaking.

Cheers

Tony

   Ditto!

   This is exactly what some others need to do. It's hard enough to get
good at GPL without constantly changing the linearity and thus the feel
of the whole thing.

    Yes! The good thing about hotlapping with the GPL demo is that you
know everyone is on the same playing field (cheating aside but that
seems non existant at this point) and you can compare yourself very well
to other drivers rather than wondering if your/their setup is
inferior/superior. Great to see a post I agree with 100% :))

Which is I think what GP2 does and it makes places like the tunnel at monaco
trickier than they need to be due to the lack of lock. Reduce linearity with
speed would help out anyone not drivng with a very high quality wheel, as
not everyone cen afford these.

Steve

Maybe I'm misunderstanding your use of the word "fast".  Could you
clarify
exactly what you mean here?

You seem to be saying that the steering angle of the wheels is somehow
disconnected from the position that the steering wheel controller is at,
and that the wheels don't come back to center as quickly, even though
the steering wheel is centered.  Are you saying that there is a lag
between the control input and the steering movement of the front wheels
on a non-linear setting?  Or, are you just saying that it takes longer
to physically move the wheel (because of the less sensitive steering on
non-linear)?

Thanks,

--
Pat Dotson
IMPACT Motorsports