rec.autos.simulators

I've seen people complain about the slowness of CPR, among other
things. That's how I felt with the old CPR demo too, without dashboard
it was smooth and crisp, but with it pretty jerky at times on my
P233MMX.

Yesterday I decided to try the _new_ CPR demo, and I was pleasantly
surprised how fast and smooth it ran with full graphics and the
dashboard. Much improved from the first demo, I couldn't tell any fps
difference between with or without***pit anymore. It ran fine even
with two cars in sight, as I recall it slowed down quite a bit in the
same situation in the first demo (with dashboard). The only way I got
the frame rate take a definite hit was to go reverse, the smoke I saw
in front of me slowed the game down quite a bit.

When people complain about the jerky graphics, are you talking about
the first version or the patched version of CPR? Demo has only four
cars I believe, is it much worse with more cars?

What are the things that really break the full game? What exactly is
wrong with the computer AI? I probably couldn't tell with the demo
because of only a few computer drivers. How about the lack of yellow
flag, I've seen it has been the killer for many people. Other than
being unrealistic, how does the lack of it degrade the gameplay?

Is it now official that CPR is as good as it gets, no patches anymore?

Thanks for any information. I think I like F1RS more, but I just want
to know if CPR is worth it if and when it can be found in discount
bins.

On related news, funny thing though how one place here in Finland had
just reduced the price of Nascar 2 as the 3Dfx patch came out, funny
coincidence. Nascar (both the race and game) never were that big in
Europe it appears, so Nascar 2 found its way to the discount bins
pretty quickly here, and it seems to have completely disappeared from
most shelves and price lists here already. The place where there were
still a few of them, they sold it for 89 FIM, whereas new games
generally cost around 270-310 FIM, F1RS for example. The software
dealer wasn't very happy when he heard from me (after paying that 80
of course) that they had just released a 3Dfx patch for the game.
I guess he figured out he could probably add another digit in front of
that price, and it would still sell for a few 3Dfx owners. Heh heh,
you can't always win. ;-)

Too bad that also probably means the extra track packs for
Nascar 2 won't be available here either. Oh well.

***

http://www.racesimcentral.net/

The yellow flags degrade gameplay because there would be ALOT of them had
they been put into the game.  which means the AI sucks in that it can't keep
crashing you or other cars.

The AI is slow, even if you max it out in the .ini file.  They are reluctant
to pass, stick to their line, and avoid you like the plague.  They are
better on the road courses than on the ovals.  I don't race the ovals, but
I've heard the most complaints here.

I finally became fed up with the game.  If you don't own F1RS, I highly
suggest purchasing it instead.  Racing against the AI is very fun in this
game.

--
Kevin
(Remove the "x-" prefix from my address in order to reply via email)

Having problems controlling your car there too huh? Hmmm

I guess ICR2 is the only Sim that lets you get away with a little off
roading right?

Maybe it is best that CPR dont have full course yellows cause your whole
race would be under yellow!

The Sandman

And you obviously havent tried getting a Tire off track in CPR in the Pro or
Interm modes with the latest ver huh Byron?  You will get dizzy you will
spin so fast!

No you just keep torturing us with comments on CPR which you have never
owned!

   You should know George. (gee, 2 Georges in 1 thread - alter egos?).
ICR2 models off track stuff very well. If the car is loaded up highly
then your history. If not, it's as drivable as you'd expect. Can you say
that about CPR or F1RS?

   I'd say it's best because otherwise I might be tempted to run CPR and
torture myself again. Nah!

Which is completely wrong (in more ways than one).  First of all, you
do NOT always "spin so fast" by putting a tire off the track in CPR.
Secondly, after having sat in the turn 4 grandstands for a CART race
at Laguna Seca, I can tell you that these guys put tires off the road
FAR more often than you ever see on TV.  And they do NOT spin 99% of
the time. Most of the time, they just let off a bit and carefully
guide the car back onto the track.  Vasser went all 4 wheels off on
the exit of 4 and nearly scraped the wall, and more drivers than I can
count put tires off, kicking up dirt.  

The problems with CPR have relatively little to do with the off-course
behavior.  The simple truth is the physics model is all wrong for a
high downforce car, and the brake-travel to braking power ratio is way
out of whack.

Randy

And Of course if you do get off throttle and ease it you wont spin and that
is just what you would have to do in reality.

I agree that the travel wasnt what I was used to in ICR2,GP2 or other sims
burt you really think that CART drivers move there pedal  4 inches. hehehehe
Come on Randy, You of all people should know that there braking is set up
with little travel, Maybe more than CPR but not near the other Sims.
Hey Even on my work truck I move my brake pedal about 3/4" to 1 inch and the
ABS kicks in???

BTW I even have my Pedal travel reduced by 1.5 inches or so and I can still
threshold and Trail brake CPR?  Took me about 10 mins to get used to it.

How about we suggest to them that we want to slam the brake to the floor and
we dont want it to lock up.  I'm sure that would make alot of you guys
happy!

George

   Yeah, I'm certainly a fool for not buying CPR. I suppose us lesser
individuals just can't appreciate the brilliance of CPR like you George.
One day I hope to be able to get up to your level so I can properly
appreciate such things. Until then I'll just stick to playing with my
train sets.

Yes, little travel but HIGH PRESSURE.  I've never seen a brake system
for a PC which accurately simulates the fact that brakes are PRESSURE
devices, not deflection devices.  The ideal brake would be on with
almost no travel, because you'd press harder and harder rather than
get more pedal deflection.  A real car can have little brake pedal
deflection because its truly a pressure device.  Since we don't have
that with almost every set of PC pedals out there, it has to be made
up for with travel, and the fact of the matter is that CPR doesn't
have enough travel, nor does there appear to be any difference in
travel-to-lockup at high speeds vs. low speeds.  This isn't really a
debatable issue.  If you want realistic travel for CPR, you're going
to have to tell me how I can come by pressure-sensitive brakes that
make that deflection worthwhile and realistic.

Its not that you can't get used to it.  Its that a) it shouldn't be
necessary, and b) the amount of braking which will lockup the wheels
is nearly unchanged at high or low speeds.  Check the telemetry traces
and you'll see what I mean.  You end up braking exactly the same
regardless of whether you're doing 50 mph or 150 mph.

Find someone else to insult, George.  I'm not going to be baited by
this strawman argument.  No one wants to not emulate lock-up, but
neither do people want the same braking characteristics at any speed,
and since most PC pedals don't offer the kind of resistance a real
brake pedal would, its unrealistic to assume that everyone should just
'touch' their brakes, as you do in CPR.  Its unrealistic and you know
it.  Besides, I get the feeling you're arguing for arguments sake.
I'm really surprised you would even choose to debate brake pedal
travel.  You had to know how easily the points you made were going to
get refuted.

Randy

Randy

Yeah I think sticking to trains would probably be best for a person like you
anyway. However I dont think there is a model train newsgroup for you to
flame on so your life should be easier. If you do find yourself a model
train newsgroup just remember to actually play with your train set before
you actually flame it. You might be taken seriously.

The tiltle says it all. Byron, everyone knows CPR has huge short comings.
Get a life dude! You dont own the game, I doubt you even played the demo.
You are a flaming idiot on the newsgroup. Do you have anything enlighting to
say about this game and the people who enjoy it? Or are you just a flaming
idiot? All I see in your posts are the same old things that have been run
over and over again about CPR and how bad it sux. Who cares anymore that CPR
sucks? Who cares if you think people who play CPR are fools? You arent
shedding any light on anything that hasnt been dicussed here before. From
all the posts I see on this NG from you is a bunch of negative posts about a
game that is clearly below par. Your existance must be hell