rec.autos.simulators

--
Tim White

--
Tim White

Well, I'll sort of give you that. While I personally have you filed as one
of the more opportunistic drivers in RASCAR, I wouldn't go as far as to say
dive-bomber.

You do have an alarming tendency to overreact to critisism and the
suggestion that anything that happens to you on track is actually (partly)
your own fault. While an initial defensive reaction is to be expected and
perfectly understandable, your persistence in this area is disturbing and,
IMO, unhealthy.

Ok, Eldred calls you a dive-bomber. Even if he is clearly, objectively
wrong, that comment tells you something: your "normal" way of dealing with
slower cars unnerves Eldred. It's good to keep that in mind and accordingly
if the situation allows (nervous drivers are prone to doing unexpected
things, which could really mess up your day), it's bad to keep bringing it
up again (and again... and again... <g>).

Indeed, let's get two things straight.

1) I was not going to start another RASCAR. I volunteered to fund a server
for RASCAR to continue racing on. As John's vision for RASCAR was more in
line with mine, I stipulated that if I was going to be paying for it we'd
run it John's way. I didn't totally agree with everything John suggested at
the time, but if one's going to delegate a job one doesn't have time to do
oneself (and running a racing series is a pretty big job), then one has got
to accept it's not going to be done exactly how one would do it oneself. I
was confident that, over time, I was going to be able to steer John away
from some of the more questionable rules/procedures he put forward and that
the more regulated approach would pay off in terms of attendance and quality
of racing.

2) You were not suspended or banned for anything you did on track. Eldred
suspended both of you because you wouldn't let go of the argument after
being asked to quit feeding off eachother pending evaluation of the
incident. Then instead of taking your lumps (remember what I advised you?)
you continued to rant and rave which obviously cast that decision in stone.
Any admin would have done the same. It's silly to assume giving an open
invite to Eldred despite "what he's done to you" makes you look good. It
merely saves you from looking like a complete idiot. <vbseg>

As far as kicking you out of RASCAR goes, bottom line is John was appointed
to carry out his vision for RASCAR and instead of trying to stay on the
inside and affect change through reason and moderate discussion you and
Mitch chose the confrontational approach.

As I already explained to Mitch I would have handled it differently. I'm
confident this is going to work and I can make you see that it works, so I
can afford to make some promises to keep you guys happy even if I have no
intention whatsoever of deviating from my vision. That would certainly have
worked in the short term and it might have taken long enough for the penny
to drop for you to have stopped being really uptight about certain aspects
of the plan. The Machiavellian approach, you might say.

John, on the other hand, is also confident he can make it work and that down
the line we will have a healthy series with good races and good attendance,
so, in his mind, he can afford to take a few casualties. He doesn't want to
have to deal with you in the long run and gives you an opportunity to take
yourself out of the equation, which you eagerly take. Problem solved...
after a few days the noise dies down and John can get on with business. That
would have worked too and, seeing as John was in control, that's the way it
happened.

The way you and Mitch carried yourselves at the time you'll be hard pressed
to find anyone looking at RASCAR from a management point of view to disagree
with John's decision to have you removed.

Shortly after the situation changed drastically and we independantly came up
with a solution to the crisis. Rather than fragment RASCAR I decided to let
you have your cake and force you to eat it. Looking at it objectively, I
realised it would be far easier for me to adapt to your way of working
rather than the other way around(*), so I stepped down.

And, yes, regrettably (because you are a talented, clean driver) you would
have remained off the roster if I'd pressed on and had started hosting races
for RASCAR. That's just basic management. I would have needed John to do the
day to day running of the series and therefore I had to support his
decisions. Nothing more sinister than that, I assure you.

Well, Eldred did tell me he didn't pay close attention for a few days and,
upon his return, noticed a bomb had gone off in his absense (or words to
that effect, don't remember exactly... sorry EP).

Now, if you'll excuse me, I have a lot of replay reviewing to catch up on
(though comprising not as many incidents as last time! ;-)).

Jan.
=---
(*): and I knew the bulk of the membership would go with whomever hosted the
races. Don't be fooled into thinking either side had any more support than
those directly involved in the argument at the time.

That's a fact. Eldred said yesterday that I was never kicked out of RASCAR.
He didn't know what you did apparently.

Tim's wrong again.

Get your facts straight.

David G Fisher

Maybe he just assumes that everyone is as pitifully endowed as he
is...

Disclaimer: There's really no good retort for this without implying
that I am equally familiar with the girth of his worth. I would like
to state, for the record, that I have never to my knowledge seen
Dave, *** or otherwise, nor do I believe the rumors concerning his
own severely lacking mass in the area of male ***ia (something to
the effect that if he were search for his ***, he'd have to cut his
pubic hairs one at a time until he found one that bleeds, and then
assume he hit pay dirt).  I suppose that some may make sport of him
over it, but not me.

:)

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy
"goyl at nettx dot no"

http://www.theuspits.com

"A man is only as old as the woman he feels........"
--Groucho Marx--

Actually, I didn't call you a cheater. I asked if you were the Tim White
that has a reputation as a cheater. Some people do seem to think you cheated
at something. I don't know if you're a cheater, I just know about your
reputation. I do know your a jerk who blew up over something extremely
minor.

I did say that you threaten to wreck people. I'm 100% positive you have done
that. Anyone who was at that Pocono race or who read your post here at ras
where you said you'd wreck me in every race until I was out of RASCAR knows
it's 100% true as well.

I'm not dragging other people's names into your little tirade. I asked a
simple question. Are you the Tim White who some people think is a cheater? I
know of very few people who have ever been accused of cheating.

Go right ahead. I'll enjoy that. I know one.....John Simmons.

Do whatever you like. Unlike Simmons, I don't try tell people what they can
say, and when and where they can say it.

Hooray! RASCAR drivers are dancing in the streets at the news you want to
come back after insulting them on your way out. Here's the deal Timmy.
People get banned from RASCAR for breaking the rules on the rules page (no
one's been banned yet).

That's a lie. Mitch didn't paly a part in forcing Eldred to do anything.
Also, I find it laughable that you will support Mitch while attempting to
get rid of me after stating previously that you would NEVER race on a server
which Mitch has a hand in running. He knows your true colors as well as I
do.

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=Fjv2...
%245H4.947308%40twister.southeast.rr.com

You said,

"Thank you Mitch.

Why would anyone support someone who had nothing to say to them but stop
kissing
John's ass is beyond me but I certainly will not.

I will say this,

Unless your able to apologize to at least 3 people you publicly accused of
sucking up to John every single time we offered HIM support you can lay
claim to
the big fish in a small pond all you like and it will never make you
anything
more than an agitator who grabbed the ball and said it was his.  Oh excuse
me,
OURS, lol.

I will never race on a server you admin, won't ever happen.  You're antics
were
absolutely in no way less offensive than anything John said or did.  Your
ridiculous arguments, flaming, and pompous righteous holier-than-thou
attitude,
and bravado attempts at claiming you are for the group, while simultaneously
changing it's core idea of an open invite policy, simply show just how
incapable
you are.

You don't even deserve the respect of explaining it to you personally since
your
obviously so incapable of grasping it.

You want, YOU, want RASCAR to be just another league, with the same closed
doors
all the others have.  Your version of RASCAR will not only not survive, you
will
only be remembered as the single person who alienated a decent guy like
Eldred
who happened to have a good server, and knew what to do with it."

No, you quit in a huff because you were suspended. You never had a single
word with me in any RASCAR race until Pocono. I passed you when it looked
like you were blocking me. There was no contact. No yellow flag thrown even.
You tried to pass me back and hit me. Still, no yellow flag or loss of
control of our cars. You then did something nobody else has ever done in 70+
RASCAR races. You threatened to wreck someone. YOu then came here and
threatened to wreck me again before I had said a word. You just went nuts
like the nutty little nut sack you are. You were suspended for one race, and
decided to quit in protest. You also insulted the other RASCAR drivers on
your way out.

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=g:thl965498697d&dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UT...
UTF-8&selm=8%25TUa.293266%24_w.11644602%40twister.southeast.rr.com

You said,

"LOL

You say threats mean something, John says they don't :)

You guys might want to have a talk next time before you make a decision like
that since it's cost you one driver for good.  I hate to do this too Eldred
but
considering RASCAR has no rules, I would think the whole point of racing
here is
what happens ON the track, not in a ng.

I did nothing wrong imho.  So I don't accept your one race suspension.  A
supposedly experienced racer makes a stupid move forcing me out of his way
for
whatever reason his decides, makes no apologies, I get upset and tell him
I'll
remember it, and we hash it out here.

And that upsets you, fine.

If it matters, I think your wrong, but it's your league.  You manage it the
best
way you decide, I have no problem with that.

Please just understand if I decide how much that matters to me.  I was not
overly aggresive.  If you'll check, I was running that restart pretty much
exactly the way I did the others, and the same way I would've ran the rest.
Try
entering T1 at Pocono, in traffic, going 140+mph with that setup and then
shift,
with the rpms so low.  If you think I was aggressive there I have to take
from
that you probably don't like any of my driving.

And there's certainly no reason for me to have to agree with you.  Racing
here
on Saturday has never been a highlight of my week.  It has been really great
racing way too infrequently and there is no sign of improvement.  Has anyone
really, honestly, significantly improved as a direct result of racing with
RASCAR?

I'm sure there probably has, but I wasn't one of them.

So I'm out, thanks for hosting."

People have often asked me for setups and replays. But you're the best.
You're wonderful. Do what you like because it won't matter to me a bit. I'll
enjoy your little poll. As long as I never threaten to wreck people or am
accused of being a cheat, I'll be happy. I'll still be running in RASCAR
just like I have been since the first race (after I came up with the idea
which started everything).

Bye Timmy.

David G Fisher

--
Tim White

The FACT is, you child, I said Eldred would have eventually kicked you off the
RASCAR server if you and Mitch hadn't caused him to pull it.  The RASCAR server.

John kicked you off his practice server.

Slight difference.

lol

--
Tim White

Anything else you have to say means squat if you can't stand up on your own
merits.

What I 'blew' up over was your arrogance stating you dive bombed me simply
because no one nowhere was ever going to cut you off, when in fact you were not
the reason I moved over.  The guy in front of me was.  That's what everyone else
saw but you.  That's what the replay showed.  You never ever acknowledge that
you may have misread why I moved over.

Sure I blasted you for making such a stupid move but you're just further
validating it by inflicting us with your arrogance that the whole incident was
about you not getting bullied on the track.

Either way, you trying claim an innocence in someone else calling me a cheater
and you just pointing it out has pussy written all over it.  Certainly a Really
lame attempt to try to slam me, and just proves my point about you.

The problems Mitch and I have are solvable.  You and I are history.

--
Tim White

"David G Fisher" <davegfnos...@home.com> wrote in message
news:YJWdnde0TeVsPgSiRVn-tA@comcast.com...

Do you hear what he said Eldred?  I've ALIENated you :)  All the laps you
turned in practice trying to become an "Alien" and all you needed was me :-)
I alienate thee Saint Eldred, hehe. (sword on shoulders).

Mitch

1) My biggest one was with Robert.  To turn that one around into something
positive was all on John's shoulders, and he did the right thing.
And he did it fairly quickly.  That reminded me how important it was to have a
guy running things who had thick skin :)  Say what you want about what RASCAR is
now, but that clearly is not the present case.

2) The other was how graceful Eldred was in accepting my apologies for causing
such a stir at Pocono and refusing to accept me quitting.  We all make mistakes,
unless your initials are dgf.  Having someone like Eldred around to remain calm
in the middle of a fire fight is what being a 'volunteer' is all about.

I've been in leagues where the biggest hotheads were the admins.  Never works.
With John, there was Eldred.  We got the good cop bad cop deal, and no one can
deny they busted their asses to try to get things right.

You can like what Mitch and Fishup are doing but neither of them are exactly
calm people :)

--
Tim White

I think anything that happens in RASCAR should be run by him just for his
thoughts and sanity.

I would also like to say, that I never thought my tickling the underbelly of
RASCAR would set this off again.
Although, the people I expected to whine did.

There I go tickling again. ;-)

--
Richard "ZZ" Busch

Member:
Screamers Racing League
OAO
CORS
MARA TransAm
RASCAR
GPL Rank + 17.415
MoGPL Rank + 318.586
N2002 Rank + 7.695
TransAm Rank  ??

John kicked me out of RASCAR.

Right before that, John threatened to kick me off a server he supplied for
the Bristol race when Eldred's server wasn't working. John was then exposed
(through replays) as being a punk. No one here at ras who looked at the
replays or heard about what he said and did agreed with his actions. That
nonsense by him was the last bit of ***I would take. He then decided to
abuse his *volunteer* position and take me off the invite list to Eldred's
server (as he informed me and everyone else here at ras in the Attention
Dave Fisher" thread. Eldred informed me yesterday he never knew John did
that.

You've been wrong about almost everything.

Got it now, or do I need to say it sloooooower for you?

Bet you don't respond to this post because of how dumb you look right now.

David G Fisher