Hi Dave,
agreed to what you say in your final sentence. And it isn't my intention to
talk down other sims, or put Papy and GPL on a pedestal.
I don't think btw that Steve was referring to economical success. I think he
was referring to the size of a community. But everyone else talking about
something entirely different has never prevented me from contributing what I
thought should be contributed (often because I hadn't understood what
everyone's talking about, but that's another issue ;-)
Anyway, you've got a point when you say that GPL's still being played
because there's no sequel. It's obviously somewhat questionable when I reply
that I wonder how many other sims would still be played even if they hadn't
had a sequel ;-) but my personal opinion is that GPL is fairly outstanding
in this respect, with only very few other sims on par.
I wouldn't have continued to play GP1 when ICR2 was released, and I wouldn't
have continued to play ICR2 because of GP2 - a valid line of argument? Maybe
if you read it as having been said tongue in cheek ;-)
You're also right that MTM was great fun (my first online racing sim,
actually), but I'm not saying that GPL is the one and only - I'm just saying
it was a success because of the points I'm listing. That doesn't mean there
are no other classics and all-time greats. Still, IMHO GPL is one out of a
fairly few.
As for the Nx series having online play, I think you'll agree that N2, like
ICR2, didn't support online playing like GPL does. For all practical
purposes it was modem-to-modem, except on Hawaii, which isn't the same
degree of freedom and accessibility as GPL's online feature provides.
GPL took online playing a fairly substantial step further by making it easy
to use, by giving a lot more people the capability to race and host online,
and also by dramatically increasing the quality of online playing on the at
the time less than optimal connections and hardware.
But I'd like to say again that this doesn't mean there is no other like it.
It would IMHO just be wrong to say GPL was a failure - but that's of course
my personal opinion.
Achim
> I have to respectfully disagree with you on a few points. :-)
> > Hi David,
> > IMHO there's more than just economics to look at when defining success.
> Yes, there is more than just economics to consider when defining success,
> but we are talking about sales right now and sales wise, it did poorly
> compared to other racing games.
> > GPL has become a classic, and its lifecycle of 5 years is an eternity
for
> a
> > computer racing game. Especially considering how very much alive it
still
> > is, looking at its driver and add-on creation base. I can't think of any
> > other racing game achieving something similar,
> MTM2 is actually older than GPL, and still has a larger online community
> than GPL with thousands of truck and track add ons. It actually has had
two
> sequals in 4 X 4 Evo 1 and 2.
> >and its impact on sim racing
> > and online racing has been immense.
> > GPL has revolutionized car physics (which continue to live in
> > N4/N2002/N2003),
> Not so sure about it revolutionizing car physics. Old debate.
> >it's revolutionised online racing (and is still arguably
> > unequalled in that field except by its own kin also coming from
Papyrus),
> The NASCAR series did that before GPL ever came out because of the high
> numbr of cars they could handle. A number of arcade racers had excellent
> online racing before GPL, just not as high a number.
> > and it's given its buyers a fun-bang-for-the-buck longevity by far
> exceeding
> > that of any other contemporary racing game.
> This is where GPL fans lose me. A lot of racing sims have sequels. That's
> why I always stop playing one sim and move on to another in a series. Look
> at the various F1 series like Crammond's GP series, Ubi Soft's, ISI's,
etc.
> If GPL had been successful, it would of had a sequel, and it's small fan
> base would of moved on to it. Then all this importance about GPL's
longevity
> would never be able to be claimed as relevant. A sequel wouldn't of sold
> much better than the original GPL because historic auto sims aren't in
> demand. The GPL series would of been a sales flop compared to the modern
F1
> series from the other developers, and also compared to something like
> Magnetic Field's rally series of sims, and of course the Papyrus NASCAR
> series. I don't see how the other individual sims in each series should be
> seen as being less than GPL when their quality and success forced sequels
to
> be made which moved the fan base on. I guarantee everyone in RASCAR moves
on
> from N2002 to N2003 when it's released.
> Also, GPL is an exteme niche product (again, without a sequel) with no
> competitors, unlike modern F1 sims. Doesn't surprise me at all it would
> retain some fans, especially since they are older. Where else could a fan
of
> historic auto sims have gone to these past few years? No competition until
> the West brothers produce something.
> > GPL has become a classic, and there aren't many around like it. IMO
GPL's
> > been very successful, just not in terms of money.
> As long as there are people who enjoy it and it's a quality product, then
> that's all that really matters IMO.
> David G Fisher
> > Achim
