rec.autos.simulators

by **Schoone** » Wed, 30 Oct 2002 02:56:53

I agree but they are no more.
Like I said, if the sole purpose is going to be turning profit then it won't
be from the hard core sim market. Do I agree with this no, but its a fact
of life. Companies like Sierra are not in business for the great good of
the sim community. Is it wrong for them to be this way? No more so than
Ford, GM, Coke, Sony etc trying to make the largest profit they can.

> Papyrus once was like this, before Sierra...

> > People needs to stop thinking that Papy is in business out of the
kindness
> > of their hearts and with a desire to make the best sims available to the
> > hard core people like us no matter the cost.

by **Jan Verschuere** » Wed, 30 Oct 2002 03:08:29

"Schooner" wrote...
> "that you think is wrong" ???

> Wrong in what sense that it is not a program I would buy? Then yes.
> I have worked on a number of larger scale database systems and I can't say
> that I would want or need them myself but they have a purpose. You
> confusing art with work I believe. There are projects that are fun to be
on
> and those that need to be done that just pay the bills. Very few people
get
> to work on the "fun" stuff when developing software.

> As for paying the bills if that is what it takes then yes. Do you see a
lot
> of jobs being posted for people to work on fun projects that they believe
> in? Not really.

> > "Schooner" wrote...
> > > Hehe its a job like any other. The days of getting paid
> > > to program for fun are over after .com busted.
> > > Although I enjoy programming I do it for a living and it
> > > is just another job.

> > So you think you could, day in - day out, program a product you don't
> > believe in, that you think is wrong and keep at it indefinately, just
'cos
> > it pays the bills?

> > Jan.
> > =---

by **Jan Verschuere** » Wed, 30 Oct 2002 03:23:30

Oops... hit "send" instead of "save". My bad.

I am going to rephrase my question, but I need to think about it first as it
appears I'm not getting my meaning across.

Anyhow... to be continued.

Jan.
=---

by **Schoone** » Wed, 30 Oct 2002 03:25:33

:)

My point is that we all can't work on the fun projects. There is real work
that needs to be done as well and companies want to make money.

by **Jay Taylo** » Wed, 30 Oct 2002 04:01:16

The thing you are missing here is the amount of money EA dumps into Nascar,
besides just paying for the rights. They sponser races, contingency sponser
ships etc...
Nascar likes to see their involvement in the sport. Papy on the other hand
basically never was in a position to throw that kind of money around. While
EA's titles lack the depth,
that the papy sims have, they are solid enough for the mass market, which at
the end of the day is were the money is. Sure it sucks to see happen, but
it's not really that surprising.

Jay Taylor

by DB » Wed, 30 Oct 2002 04:05:20

Maybe GPL II , 1970 for the playstation or Xbox is in order, with a
PC followup of course :)

> Read the interview. Note the lack of denials in re console games in
Papy's
> future. Next, use reductive logic. They can't do another NASCAR title
> (EA's got an exclusive), they can't do IRL (Infogrames, I think, has that
> sewed up), and they're unlikely to do a road-racing game 'cuz they got
> burned by GPL. That doesn't leave much--Ratbag's got a lock on dirt-track
> racing. ARCA? ASA? Silver Crown? Featherlite Modifieds? Baja 1000?
Too
> bad the powers-that-be don't have the guts or wisdom to realize what a
> market already exists for a GPL2.... (Little known fact: GPL--which by
now
> has sold almost 200,000 copies--has a larger online community than Ghost
> Recon, which is considered a huge hit in PC marketing circles.)

> > So...whats papy going to do AFTER n2003??
> > dan

> > > Oopsies, forgot the URL:

> > > http://www.homelanfed.com/index.php?id=9950

> > > > Brave talk from Papy's Rich Yasi on HomeLAN Fed (what DOES that
mean,
> > > > anyway?) site in re the upcoming--and last iteration--of NASCAR
> Racing.
> > > Now
> > > > what, Rich?

by **Schoone** » Wed, 30 Oct 2002 03:15:06

Ya because that would sell to the console users ;)

> Maybe GPL II , 1970 for the playstation or Xbox is in order, with a
> PC followup of course :)

> > Read the interview. Note the lack of denials in re console games in
> Papy's
> > future. Next, use reductive logic. They can't do another NASCAR title
> > (EA's got an exclusive), they can't do IRL (Infogrames, I think, has
that
> > sewed up), and they're unlikely to do a road-racing game 'cuz they got
> > burned by GPL. That doesn't leave much--Ratbag's got a lock on
dirt-track
> > racing. ARCA? ASA? Silver Crown? Featherlite Modifieds? Baja 1000?
> Too
> > bad the powers-that-be don't have the guts or wisdom to realize what a
> > market already exists for a GPL2.... (Little known fact: GPL--which by
> now
> > has sold almost 200,000 copies--has a larger online community than Ghost
> > Recon, which is considered a huge hit in PC marketing circles.)

> > > So...whats papy going to do AFTER n2003??
> > > dan

> > > > Oopsies, forgot the URL:

> > > > http://www.homelanfed.com/index.php?id=9950

> > > > > Brave talk from Papy's Rich Yasi on HomeLAN Fed (what DOES that
> mean,
> > > > > anyway?) site in re the upcoming--and last iteration--of NASCAR
> > Racing.
> > > > Now
> > > > > what, Rich?

by **Dave Coo** » Wed, 30 Oct 2002 04:15:36

> Papyrus once was like this, before Sierra...

> > People needs to stop thinking that Papy is in business out of the kindness
> > of their hearts and with a desire to make the best sims available to the
> > hard core people like us no matter the cost.

No offense to the hard working individuals still at Papyrus - but who is still
there? Dave Kaemmer is gone, correct? How about Randy Cassidy?

- Dave

by **Jason Moy** » Wed, 30 Oct 2002 05:33:49

>5) Solar effects (lens flare & sun glare) - yawn

Yawn? Glare is one of the biggest challenges stock car drivers face
at many tracks.

I'm pretty psyched about this game. Looks like they're really going
for broke and adding as many new features as they can. I only hope
that it's not a bug infested nightmare, altho Papy is historically
quick to release patches.

Jason

by **Jason Moy** » Wed, 30 Oct 2002 05:43:57

>I stand by my statement that you can't do what Papy currently does on a
>Console. I just do not think the resources are there.

Papyrus has not stated anywhere that they are no longer developing for
the PC. They've hinted that plain "jump in a car and drive" racing
simulations don't have a bright future, but they also haven't said
that the next game wouldn't be a racing sim. Based on the information
that has been released so far, my best guess as to the next Papyrus
product would be that it will be a multi-platform (PC, PS2, Xbox)
racing simulation with an extensive plot-driven career mode, or a
plot-driven non-racing game with a driving simulation aspect to it
without the driving being the complete focus of the gameplay. I'm not
sure that we can really assume much more than that.

Jason

by **Doug Elliso** » Wed, 30 Oct 2002 05:52:52

Yup.

I was still under the impression that GPL was a number of tens of
thousands - certainly not knocking on a quarter of a million!! If there's
200,000 copies of GPL out there - either 190,000 of them dont have access to
the internet - or the online community is too scarey :D

Doug

by **Larr** » Wed, 30 Oct 2002 06:17:28

I was thinking the same thing.

-Larry

> Papyrus once was like this, before Sierra...

> > People needs to stop thinking that Papy is in business out of the
kindness
> > of their hearts and with a desire to make the best sims available to the
> > hard core people like us no matter the cost.

by **Jason Moy** » Wed, 30 Oct 2002 06:24:29

On Mon, 28 Oct 2002 07:31:53 -0500, "David G Fisher"

>Don't you know that a future computer auto sim is of such incredible
>importance that it has to be kept top secret? The earth could explode if
>this information slips out too early.

Consider how people were freaking out about the GPL 72 rumors being
false not to mention the whole West Bros fiasco, I'm not surprised
Papy is tighted lipped about their upcoming games. Personally, I'd
rather wait for a press release after the game has been slated for
definite release than read about it in an interview 2 years before it
ships.

Jason

by **Gerald Moo** » Wed, 30 Oct 2002 06:43:40

There are some folks on the

> > I would have really liked to be getting a track editor too so we could
> > add tracks of our own...

> So, failing that, is it possible for some real programming-savvy
> Papy fans to make a track editor shell? I.e. it 'dumbs down' the
> current esoteric and perilous method of making a track so that
> more normal :-) folks (like me!) can try their hand at it.

There are some folks*** about the Team Lightspeed editing forum
that are working toward that very goal. The only good thing about
NR2003 being the last iteration is that finally we will have a stable
platform upon which mods can be built. Nobody felt like committing
lots of time to a product that was going to be obsolete within one
year (ie NR2004... NR2005... etc).

Unless "revamped AI" means Papy totally rewrote it, I am afraid you
are correct.

cheers,
Gerald, who *still* holds out hope for NASCAR Legends '85.

by **John Simmon** » Wed, 30 Oct 2002 07:10:38

says...

> John,

> Yawn? To the AI being fixed?

> The AI is the most broken thing in NR2002. It has GOT to be fixed.

> -Larry

> > 9) Revamped AI (again? yawn)

Cecause when I race to race, I race online. Offline holds no appeal for
me other than practice.

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