rec.autos.simulators

This Isn't Going To Be Popular!

Tom Pabs

This Isn't Going To Be Popular!

by Tom Pabs » Sun, 19 Aug 2001 17:09:08

.....So I'm going to try to keep this as short as I can (and it will
probably still be too long).  Sorry.

My reasons for making this post are based on my love of racing (real and
simulated) and a desire to see simulated racing become respected as a form
of racing where the skills of the sim driver approach, if not equal, the
skills of the real-world driver.  I believe I won't get too much argument
that an enormous amount of good can come to the simulated racing community,
its members (drivers), its software developers both individual and
corporate, same for the hardware developers and manufacturers,
leagues/series administrators...and so forth, if the real-world racing
community embraced the simulated racing community with something on the
order of equal stature and respect.  Its no secret that I have spent the
better part of the last five years (full-time for the last three years)
trying to do my part to bridge the gap between sim racing and real racing.
So I'm not going to go into all the supporting reasons why I think we'd
benefit by being respected as racing drivers....by real-world racing drivers
and their "community"....I kind of figure that's a given!

I also want to state without any doubt, I totally defend the right of any
member of this community to choose to enjoy sim racing however they wish to
do so.  If that means they want to treat this activity as a leisure-time,
fun, game-playing activity.....that is 100% their right to do so.  That
includes the so called "wreckers" even!  I would defend their right to wreck
other drivers in a race with them....if that's their idea of "fun" they are
entitled to it.  They are just not entitled to wreck other drivers who don't
share their sense of fun.  As long as the "wreckers" all race together and
not with other more serious-minded sim drivers/participants....that's Okay
with me!

So, for sake of simplicity......I would like to divide all the members of
this community into two general groups:  Serious sim racing drivers and
game-playing sim racing drivers.  Notice, I did not say "two equal
groups".......I have no idea how many members of this community, if asked to
place themselves in one group or the other.....would be in each group.  We
could say, "50/50"....but it really doesn't matter to me....it has nothing
to do with what "point" I'd like to make.  Let's say, there's a substantial
number of people in both groups....together they make up the sim racing
community I'm referring to in this post.

So....to the point I would like to make:  When someone who is engaging in an
activity of sim racing that is clearly "game playing" (like wrecking cars
instead of racing against cars)......tries to make that out to be serious
race car driving......sim race car driving to be exact.......then I am going
to stand up and shout "NO."  Why?

Because I'm trying to get real-racing people to look upon the activities of
the "serious sim drivers" in this community with some respect.....respect
because they have the same or close to the same skills as real race car
drivers.  I know that, but at this point, they don't know that!   And, I
can't do that if a vocal minority of "game players" in this online community
keeps calling what they are doing "race driving".....it discredits everyone
in the sim racing community when that happens.  Or, should I say, it
discredits them as far as the real-world racing community is concerned.
And, that is the opposite of what I think....as do many others in this
community....would be good for sim racing.

I'm not talking about the "wreckers"....am I.  No.  They are a small
minority....true.  But they are not very vocal.

I am talking about the GPL community.  Not all of its members of
course......but a far too large number of them.....and a way to large vocal
number of them.  I'm also talking about a few in the N4 community.....but
its a relatively small number.....in my opinion at least.

So, to many of you.....it might seem as if I'm attacking the GPL sim racing
community.....that often referred to group of "elite" sim racers (a term
I've heard too much of lately...makes me want to throw up
sometimes).......and that's why I figured this was not going to be popular.

Well, I'm not attacking anyone.

But I am going to ask the GPL community, some (but not all)....of its
members....to do me, and anyone else in this community that would like to
see sim racing some day become a full-fledged e-sport form of racing....a
very big favor!  I don't know for sure how many others there are among you
that would like to see sim racing become a respected form of racing......I
know I can name a couple hundred.....and that's enough to ask this favor, I
think?

Here's the favor:  Please stop referring to, in public places (like this
newsgroup, race chat rooms, VROC, etc.)....referring to "hot-lapping," or
the GPLRank - (Hot-lapping scoreboard).....as racing, race car driving or
having anything to do with racing skills.  I'm not asking you to stop doing
it.  I'm not asking you to stop liking to do it even!  I am asking you to
stop calling it "racing".....because it isn't.  And, when members of the
real-world racing community see you doing this.....you discredit everyone
who is a serious sim driver in this community....and would like to bridge
the gap between themselves and the real-world race drivers.  I don't think
this is an unfair "favor" to ask of you.

I would like to make a few "points" in support of my request:

1.  In case there is any doubt that this "game" activity of hot-lapping is
being referred to by its participants as "racing"....here's a direct quote
off a web page displaying the GPLRank list:  **When players reach the magic
sub zero score, they would have reached a milestone putting them in a
category of excellence in driving. A point we all strive for.**  That is a
direct "cut and paste" copy from the following website:
http://www.technobyte.com.au/Advantage1/GPL/subzero.html

2.  Real world racing does not engage in any activity that even resembles
"hot-lapping" or keeps any records or "lists" that would resemble the
GPLRank system list of drivers.  Nobody in real-world racing could afford to
crash their cars....what....several hundred times (some of you say several
thousand times).....in order to pull off some totally lucky "flyer lap"
...and then post it somewhere so they can be thought of as an "excellent
race driver."  Of course, nobody in real-world racing would live through
such an activity, either.

3.  The closest thing I can attribute in real-world racing to something that
maybe some of the "hot-lappers" have confused to be similar to what they
do.....and call it racing......is maybe "qualifying" or....."fastest race
lap"......or maybe even "track record holder."  But, let's be clear about
this.  No race driver I know of, made it to the "hall of fame" of public
opinion (or the real one) in racing because they had a lot of
races.....where they had the "fastest lap" in that race.  They don't keep
that score in real-world racing.  I don't think anyone made it for having
the most "track records" either.  I know they don't put you in the hall of
fame for having been on the most poles.....heck, no one can even remember
who the pole sitter was....come Monday morning...usually (unless of course
you also win the race on Sunday).  The only thing they put you in the "hall
of fame" for....is winning races....winning championships (based on
winning/finishing position...in races).

4.  I spent an hour.....maybe it should have been longer.....but I couldn't
find a single GPL related website that listed all the GPL drivers in ranking
of the number of races they've won.  Or, the number of podium finishes
they've had.  I have no idea who the good race car drivers are in GPL....or
what they do or where they race....and certainly not how they rank amongst
themselves.  I do know however, who all the best "game playing hot-lappers"
are.  That took me just a minute or two to find.  Too bad, because no one in
real racing cares about that....I know I certainly don't.  It might be
fun....but its not about racing.

5.  In real-world racing.....there's a sub-amateur form of driving called
"autocross".....and even a professional form of it in the USA, called "Pro
Solo II" sanctioned by the SCCA.  Its quite a fun activity....I've done it
several times and its exciting and challenging...and not easy to beat the
guys who do nothing else but autocrossing.  For those of you that don't know
what this is.....its racing against a clock....solo....through usually a
parking lot full of "gates" marked out by yellow or orange cones.  The car
(usually they are ranked in classes) and driver who traverse the coned gates
in the shortest time.....and don't knock any cones over (they penalize you
for knocking over cones).....is declared the winner of the autocross event.
They have second and third places too.  Sometimes, if your autocross club
has a lot of members, they can afford to give you little trophies or plaques
if you come in first, second or third.  I don't think anyone in real-world
racing would confuse autocrossing with racing.....or autocross drivers with
race car drivers....although many autocross drivers have moved up to amateur
SCCA racing and then gone on to full professional racing as well.
Autocrossing would actually be a level or two above "hot-lapping"...if they
did hot-lapping in the real world.....because in autocrossing, you can't cut
the corners off....go over the curbs...or go off into the grass.....because
you'd knock over a cone and be penalized a second for doing that.
Autocrossing would be a lot harder than hot-lapping...but they don't have
hot-lapping so they don't think of it that way.

6.  I have a lot of books about racing, race car driving, skills of
racing....and so forth.  I looked through all of them.  I couldn't find
anything in them about hot-lapping....although I could find a lot of
references to how stupid it would be to attempt to run the ...

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ymenar

This Isn't Going To Be Popular!

by ymenar » Sun, 19 Aug 2001 17:21:34

Sure, do whatever you want if it please you.  I don't see any official
definition of the word "racing".  If people want to hotlap, race online or
offline, it's their own judgement.  You are racing if you do SOLO-type
motorsport events, no?  Yep, it's hotlapping.  Same for Rally racing, which
is basically whom can hotlap the best within one try.  I don't see anything
different if somebody has more then one try.

"real-racing people to look upon the activities of the "serious sim drivers"
in this community with some respect"

You've wrote about that at least 50 times in the past years and nothing has
changed yet.  Perhaps you could simply give it up?  You, Don Wilshe, etc...
It's a waste of time (no harsh feelings there Tom).  It's just a bunch of
0's and 1's.  Yes, I've passed by that also.  Stop talking racing in itself,
whatever it's simulated or not, that much seriously.

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...
-- http://www.ymenard.com/
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...

Tom Pabs

This Isn't Going To Be Popular!

by Tom Pabs » Sun, 19 Aug 2001 17:49:51

Francois......

What are you expecting will change?  Especially in something as incredibly
short as one year.  And, I've mentioned it a lot more than 50 times....lol..
When is the last time you worked with a real-world professional driver in a
sophisticated racing simulator?  Have you ever done that?  Have you seen
them sweat?  Have you seen them refuse to get out of the simulator even to
make a press conference appointment....because they wanted to keep
practicing (their words not mine)?  I watched Alan McNish refuse to get out
of our simulator last year at the ALMS race at Sears....EVEN after the Audi
team manager came over and told him the team meeting was waiting for him.
Then that Team manager stood there for the next half hour......with his
mouth open watching Alan turn laps in the simulator.  Francois.....Alan was
driving in our Lotus-49 simulator.....with a silly version of a "stock" GPL
install at 800 res....because all we had in the computer at the time was a
V3 card so we could run TV out.  This was something we'd set up for kids and
fans to play in!

In this "year of 50 times".....a real world race track simulated three
configurations of a change it need to make to the track.  It let the
real-world drivers who were going to have to race on one of them (when the
real version was actually built)....race on all three in our
simulator....and then vote on which one they liked best.  In this "year of
50 times".....the winning configuration of that simulated track "voted by
the Winston Cup drivers" was actually built....to the tune of several
million dollars!  Guess what....the real race that ran on the real
track....by the same drivers who had voted for it to be built.......ran
EXACTLY with the same characteristics as all the "test racing" we'd done on
it over the Internet......with guys you and I have been racing with/against
on TEN and WON net.......for the last three/four years!  Guys like Alan Boyd
and George Sandman and Bob Rowden......sim drivers racing at their kitchen
tables (in the case of George Sandman)....played a major role in a
multi-million dollar construction ...change of configuration of a real race
track....and the real race track performed exactly like it had for them over
the Internet racing we did.  Are you telling me that's not something
significant?

Are you telling me that Dale Earnhardt, Jr....on national television....says
he's more confident at running this year at Watkins Glen because he was
practicing a lot more on a better simulated version of it....NASCAR 4....all
week before the race?  That's not significant, you say?

Isn't that some progress, Francois?

Tom

Tom Pabs

This Isn't Going To Be Popular!

by Tom Pabs » Sun, 19 Aug 2001 17:57:02

And Francois.....

The next time you equate me to Don Wilshe.....I will be coming up to Canada
to pay a visit to you.....or sending Guido up to see you instead of me!  You
won't like Guido as much as me.  He does really bad things to arms and
legs......lol....  Just kidding you.....(but not about the thing with Don
Wilshe.....Oh, please Francois...that was a really low blow).

Tom

Rob Swindell

This Isn't Going To Be Popular!

by Rob Swindell » Sun, 19 Aug 2001 18:11:03

Wow Tom, you're enthusiasm is mind boggling! :) I guess I have a similar
approach to sim racing. I don't do hotlapping much and all my 'pb'
laptimes (sorry :) have been set mostly in qualifying sessions. I always
try to make my sim racing experience as realistic a s possible... full
strengh FF settings, so I feel I'm really working hard, long races and
right foot braking, etc..

I still crash too much though. Good luck with your crusade :)


> ALOT :) But you should read it.

Tom Pabs

This Isn't Going To Be Popular!

by Tom Pabs » Sun, 19 Aug 2001 18:21:43

Thanks Rob.....your post will probably be among the few....as soon as Europe
wakes up and reads that post.  I didn't write it to be "popular"....I wrote
it because I think it was the right thing to do for sim racing, for this sim
racing community.

Just to be clear....everyone has PB's at every track....I do too...and I
pretty much know what they are in my head.  What I was objecting to....was
an organized way of comparing my PB's to your PB's....and calling that
"racing"....or saying one of us has better "racing skills" over the
other...based on our PB's.  You know?  I don't need to compare myself to you
that way anyway.  We are both race drivers...what we do is "compare our
racing skills"...by racing each other in direct competition!  That's what
racing is!  If I race you in 8 races....and I win 3 and you win 5 of
them.....well, over those 8 races....clearly you were the better driver!
Who cares what our individual fastest lap was?  I don't...do you?

Thanks for the encouraging remarks.......they are very much appreciated.

Tom

Douglas Elliso

This Isn't Going To Be Popular!

by Douglas Elliso » Sun, 19 Aug 2001 18:29:48


Reasonable attitude.

18kb of snip..

I dont hotlap much either - but you're contradicting yourself here.  What is
hot-lapping if not a man and a car racing against the track?

Is qualifying for a race not hotlapping?

I really dont see why it took 19kb to say "Why do people call Hotlapping
Racing"

The Sim-Racing world and the Real-Racing world are VERY VERY different
things - and any reasonable individual can see that - so why one should
restrict the way it talks to become more accesable to the other is beyond
me.

I recently read an interview with Michael Schumacher who mentioned that any
racing game he had tried was so far from reality as to be of no actual use
for a racing driver

So before we start debating what terminology we use - we should focus on
better simulation of the art of racing and all that it entails (hotlapping,
racing, ANYTHING!)

Doug

Gerry Aitke

This Isn't Going To Be Popular!

by Gerry Aitke » Sun, 19 Aug 2001 19:24:24


> I would love it someday if I could let any one on that list sit next to me
> while I entered a VROC GPL race....and chat with the drivers in VROC.  But,
> I can't do that today.  God forbid...any of these people would know how to
> access this r.a.s. newsgroup.....it wouldn't take but a few posts like those
> below ("GPL and not left-foot braking..." and others)...and I'd be laughed
> all the way back to Missouri by these folks.  The entire sim racing
> community would lose if that happened.

Why don't you start your own GPL league? Advertise for drivers who share
your thoughts and goals, build up a community of like minded people,
some from real racing maybe. That's what I'd ALREADY be doing if I had
your goals at the forefront of my life, rather than trying to mould an
already existing community that really don't give a shit.

Gerry

Rob Swindell

This Isn't Going To Be Popular!

by Rob Swindell » Sun, 19 Aug 2001 19:36:11


> The Sim-Racing world and the Real-Racing world are VERY VERY different
> things - and any reasonable individual can see that - so why one should
> restrict the way it talks to become more accesable to the other is beyond
> me.

Not really... if you're online with a wheel/pedals and your in a racing
situation then the only thing that seperates it from real racing is the
wind in your face and risk of injury if you crash!

What was it? F197 on the playstation? I doubt he has tried anything of
the calibre of GPL or N4. Anyway, I've heard conflicting reports of what
he has actually said anyway! Plus, MS is a ***er.

Rob

Thom j

This Isn't Going To Be Popular!

by Thom j » Sun, 19 Aug 2001 19:47:03

Encyclopedia Britannica Needs U-------------->"Tom Pabst"

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Thom j

This Isn't Going To Be Popular!

by Thom j » Sun, 19 Aug 2001 20:19:14

Now a response:
Sorry Tom this time I really *don't agree* with your comments! This
is "rec.autos.simulators" and in many of the "sim-games" it will state,
Qualify, PB, Racing, and much more! Of course this *isnt* "real life"
racing and anyone that thinks this is, are diluted!
So no matter what word or words that are used here it still *is* and
always will be "rec.autos.simulators" here. Bottom line: to me Tom,
Your taking words & dissecting them when they do not need to be!
This newsgroup is just that a newsgroup for 'rec.sim'ers' if you will
no more, no less. -Thom_j.

| So, please....could you guys "hot-lap" all you want...but just stop
talking
| about it as if it was racing?  Please?
|
| Regards,
|
| Tom Pabst
|
|

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Jan Verschuere

This Isn't Going To Be Popular!

by Jan Verschuere » Sun, 19 Aug 2001 20:44:05

You're right, I do take offense from your post (read on past my indignance,
however). Mostly because, in your comment about the right-foot braking
thread, you infer myself and Alan Orton as offenders.

I dare you to find any post of mine where I confused the terms
simracing/simracer and hotlapping/hotlapper, though I do admit I use a
stricter definition of the latter term (I define hotlapping as "exploiting
inaccuracies in the sim's modelling of reality to go faster"). In fact, I'm
bordering on ***with regard to how I approach GPL (and simracing in
general). I refuse to use closed coast side differential, I refuse to left
foot brake, I refuse to give it more than 8/10ths in a race unless I have
to. I will admit I use GPLRank and MonsterRank as a motivator for general
practise, but I do not hotlap with the sole aim of improving it. I run only
as many laps for each track/chassis combination until my times to stabilize
to within a couple 1/10ths before moving on. Perhaps the average simracer
does take it closer to 10/10ths more often than he should, but even
Schumacher knows at 10/10ths there is a realistic chsnce of him coming
unstuck.
As for Alan: you claim not to know who the good racers are, well, if I were
asked to name 10 on the spot, Alan would be on that list. This man is an
extremely talented racer and, to my knowledge, does not indulge in
hotlapping (my definition) at all. Ok, so he has an "impressive" GPLRank,
but so do all other drivers I would consider good racers. That you, by
extension, should heap him, myself and the other posters in that thread
(whom I do not know well enough to defend in more detail) on the same pile
as wreckers, hotlappers and (god forbid) "gamers", just because we replied
to someone who believed he could no longer improve without left foot
braking, I find very insulting indeed.

Anyway, about the general gist of your post...

I do take my simracing seriously. I keep reasonably fit for my simracing, I,
unless it's very urgent or important, schedule work around my simracing
commitments. I agree with you the terms "simracing", "simracer", and "racing
simulation" should be defined and judged according to how accurately reality
is simulated. I also do consider simracing amateur motorsport. I have no
trouble talking about it as if it were. In fact the reverse is true, I have
trouble discussing it in the same way I do Quake or UT.

However, there's two things you need to consider, IMO.

1) simracing is democratic. Not only in the running cost department, but
more importantly in the ability department. Everyone has access to the top
level the minute they have an internet connection and a copy of the game. A
governing body, sanctioning various _publicised_ feeder series, compiling
results and only granting access by way of licence to the top level after
good results were obtained in a proper, simracing fashion in said feeder
series is absent. If you manage to get that in place, IMO, you have a
realistic chance of doing what you envisage, i.e. establishing the m***
high ground.
In the absense of such series you find things like GPLRank take on a a
yardstick role. I could say "I currently lead the GPVL FV series", but to
someone unfamiliar with that series it means nothing (actually it doesn't
mean much as I lead it because of competing in the most rounds). Referring
to my +10.07 GPLRank is more meaninfull as there is a more general
appreciation of what level is required to acchieve that particular number.
Sub 1m30s at Monza becomes a benchmark akin to winning a Formula Ford race.
In the absense of recognised racing acchievements like the Marlboro Masters
at Zandvoort other means are pushed into service to judge relative merit.

2) Hotlapping is a valid discipline within simracing, IMO. I choose not to
do it, nor do I like being aligned with the activity, but I would not like
to be the one to deny it. Some of the exponents of the discipline even argue
one is not truly a sim*racer* unless one does whatever is necessary to go
fast in the sim, regardless of whether the option is available to their real
life counterparts.
You say there's no hotlapping in real racing... I beg to differ. What would
you call qualifying in F1? -As I write this Bernoldi has just gone into T1
at the Hungaroring in a big opposite lock braking drift. Not something he'd
be prepared to do for 77 laps tomorrow, I'm sure. What would you call
testing? The testdrivers job is to put the car over the limit repeatedly
(obviously in a more controlled fashion than your average simracer) in order
to change the car in order to push that limit ever further away and go
faster.... that's hotlapping by your definition.
Corners are being cut every day in real racing. Stirling Moss cut corners at
the Ring, so did Jacky Ickx. In fact, the Ring's Karussell, arguably the
most famous corner in motorracing, came into being when some guy in the
early 30's figured out it could be taken quicker by cutting down into the
drainage ditch.
Add to this some of the "hotlappers" in GPL are also formidable racers and
things get very muddled indeed.

Anyhow, I applaud your efforts to make this stuff legit, just think you
could do with looking beyond GPLRank to decide whether someone is serious
about his racing or not.

Jan.
=---
"Pay attention when I'm talking to you boy!" -Foghorn Leghorn.

Joachim Trens

This Isn't Going To Be Popular!

by Joachim Trens » Sun, 19 Aug 2001 19:14:22

Hi Tom,

IMO a good sim can teach you a lot more about racing than some in this group
and outside are aware of.

Of course it's not the real thing, and of course sims don't simulate the
behaviour of the particular real car they were modelled after perfectly.
But, a good racing sim can simulate a real car's behaviour to an amazing
depth, and you don't have to be a Nascar or F1 driver to know that what an
N4 car does is pretty realistic if you compare it to a powerful, normal
street car. You can't have the fear factor, the G-forces, the real tracks in
all detail, the financial considerations etc., but a good sim can still be
quite a good approximation to some of the core aspects of driving a real car
at the limit.

One aspect where a good online racing sim IMO is seriously realistic is the
racing aspect. The mental and psychological aspects of racing, the strategy,
the attitudes that make you a winner or a loser. In online racing, you can
learn a lot about yourself, and the tactics and strategies, both in the race
and off the track. If you look at what's happening in online leagues, that's
often amazingly close to real racing in the core aspects. Not to any
particular racing series in every detail, but to the basic do's and don'ts
of racing in general.

The fact that Schumi says racing sims aren't any good IMO mainly rises the
question which sims he's seen, which input devices he's used, and how much
time he's spent on exploring them. I'd sure like to try and give him a race
online and see whether he'd enjoy it or not :-)

Yet, I'm not doing going to do you the favour you ask, because I think that
it is neither necessary, nor a good idea.

Sim racing is fun and we should treat it as that. But anyway, sim racing
will become a lot more popular among racing fans in the next 20 years. A lot
of people would like to race, but they can't due to the constraints we all
know. Sim racing is a great alternative, and as technology and sims get
better, the immersion factor increases, and the problem of sim racing not
being taken serious will go away al on its own. I can see a time where we
have sponsored sim races and league races broadcast on the Internet and
being watched by thousands of spectators, with advertising and all. The
technology for this will probably be cascaded broadcasting servers, and that
could AAMOF even be done today.

The next step to prepare this is to have a sim to use such broadcast servers
or intelligent routers, who knows how it'll be done, to have the option to
have personalized car paint schemes and also personalized advertising on the
track which gets transmitted to all spectators before the race. Maybe in ten
years we'll have the bandwidth for this? I don't know. But I firmly believe
the time will come.

Achim

Mike Grand

This Isn't Going To Be Popular!

by Mike Grand » Sun, 19 Aug 2001 22:03:08

Very good post Tom, also very long and while i didn't read the whole thing for fear I would lose a whole day I agree with you on alot of points. Ask anyone that attends a LikeReal lan event if they take it seriously. You can bet that a good majority of us take it very seriously. Ask anyone that runs a league what they think the potential is. Last year at a LAN event in Indy we had a whole lounge full of people that probably knew nothing about simracing with their eyes glued to the big screens in the rear of the sports bar/restaurant. They were cheering and had no idea it wasn't real. But, back to your post. Simracing will never attain the status that say a Nascar organization has unless they aquire a large spectator following. It will be a long hard road and the trek will be going long after I expire. We have come a long way over the last 6+ years and from here on in it's gets slower and tougher. There are too many variables to consider when people start taking simracing seriously, most of all would be the ability to cheat and the measures that can be taken to ensure this doesn't happen. I think for simracing the future would be dedicated gaming machines that keep the security issues to a minimum, and where all available resources are designed to focus on the tak at hand.

Mike Grandy

Proud Member of Precision Racing Internet Race Team

3 A Champion Forever-Godspeed Dale

  "Tom Pabst" <tmpa...@home.com> wrote in message news:Eopf7.11334$P15.6271537@news1.rdc1.sfba.home.com...
  .....So I'm going to try to keep this as short as I can (and it will
  probably still be too long).  Sorry.

  My reasons for making this post are based on my love of racing (real and
  simulated) and a desire to see simulated racing become respected as a form
  of racing where the skills of the sim driver approach, if not equal, the
  skills of the real-world driver.  I believe I won't get too much argument
  that an enormous amount of good can come to the simulated racing community,
  its members (drivers), its software developers both individual and
  corporate, same for the hardware developers and manufacturers,
  leagues/series administrators...and so forth, if the real-world racing
  community embraced the simulated racing community with something on the
  order of equal stature and respect.  Its no secret that I have spent the
  better part of the last five years (full-time for the last three years)
  trying to do my part to bridge the gap between sim racing and real racing.
  So I'm not going to go into all the supporting reasons why I think we'd
  benefit by being respected as racing drivers....by real-world racing drivers
  and their "community"....I kind of figure that's a given!

  I also want to state without any doubt, I totally defend the right of any
  member of this community to choose to enjoy sim racing however they wish to
  do so.  If that means they want to treat this activity as a leisure-time,
  fun, game-playing activity.....that is 100% their right to do so.  That
  includes the so called "wreckers" even!  I would defend their right to wreck
  other drivers in a race with them....if that's their idea of "fun" they are
  entitled to it.  They are just not entitled to wreck other drivers who don't
  share their sense of fun.  As long as the "wreckers" all race together and
  not with other more serious-minded sim drivers/participants....that's Okay
  with me!

  So, for sake of simplicity......I would like to divide all the members of
  this community into two general groups:  Serious sim racing drivers and
  game-playing sim racing drivers.  Notice, I did not say "two equal
  groups".......I have no idea how many members of this community, if asked to
  place themselves in one group or the other.....would be in each group.  We
  could say, "50/50"....but it really doesn't matter to me....it has nothing
  to do with what "point" I'd like to make.  Let's say, there's a substantial
  number of people in both groups....together they make up the sim racing
  community I'm referring to in this post.

  So....to the point I would like to make:  When someone who is engaging in an
  activity of sim racing that is clearly "game playing" (like wrecking cars
  instead of racing against cars)......tries to make that out to be serious
  race car driving......sim race car driving to be exact.......then I am going
  to stand up and shout "NO."  Why?

  Because I'm trying to get real-racing people to look upon the activities of
  the "serious sim drivers" in this community with some respect.....respect
  because they have the same or close to the same skills as real race car
  drivers.  I know that, but at this point, they don't know that!   And, I
  can't do that if a vocal minority of "game players" in this online community
  keeps calling what they are doing "race driving".....it discredits everyone
  in the sim racing community when that happens.  Or, should I say, it
  discredits them as far as the real-world racing community is concerned.
  And, that is the opposite of what I think....as do many others in this
  community....would be good for sim racing.

  I'm not talking about the "wreckers"....am I.  No.  They are a small
  minority....true.  But they are not very vocal.

  I am talking about the GPL community.  Not all of its members of
  course......but a far too large number of them.....and a way to large vocal
  number of them.  I'm also talking about a few in the N4 community.....but
  its a relatively small number.....in my opinion at least.

  So, to many of you.....it might seem as if I'm attacking the GPL sim racing
  community.....that often referred to group of "elite" sim racers (a term
  I've heard too much of lately...makes me want to throw up
  sometimes).......and that's why I figured this was not going to be popular.

  Well, I'm not attacking anyone.

  But I am going to ask the GPL community, some (but not all)....of its
  members....to do me, and anyone else in this community that would like to
  see sim racing some day become a full-fledged e-sport form of racing....a
  very big favor!  I don't know for sure how many others there are among you
  that would like to see sim racing become a respected form of racing......I
  know I can name a couple hundred.....and that's enough to ask this favor, I
  think?

  Here's the favor:  Please stop referring to, in public places (like this
  newsgroup, race chat rooms, VROC, etc.)....referring to "hot-lapping," or
  the GPLRank - (Hot-lapping scoreboard).....as racing, race car driving or
  having anything to do with racing skills.  I'm not asking you to stop doing
  it.  I'm not asking you to stop liking to do it even!  I am asking you to
  stop calling it "racing".....because it isn't.  And, when members of the
  real-world racing community see you doing this.....you discredit everyone
  who is a serious sim driver in this community....and would like to bridge
  the gap between themselves and the real-world race drivers.  I don't think
  this is an unfair "favor" to ask of you.

  I would like to make a few "points" in support of my request:

  1.  In case there is any doubt that this "game" activity of hot-lapping is
  being referred to by its participants as "racing"....here's a direct quote
  off a web page displaying the GPLRank list:  **When players reach the magic
  sub zero score, they would have reached a milestone putting them in a
  category of excellence in driving. A point we all strive for.**  That is a
  direct "cut and paste" copy from the following website:
  http://www.technobyte.com.au/Advantage1/GPL/subzero.html

  2.  Real world racing does not engage in any activity that even resembles
  "hot-lapping" or keeps any records or "lists" that would resemble the
  GPLRank system list of drivers.  Nobody in real-world racing could afford to
  crash their cars....what....several hundred times (some of you say several
  thousand times).....in order to pull off some totally lucky "flyer lap"
  ...and then post it somewhere so they can be thought of as an "excellent
  race driver."  Of course, nobody in real-world racing would live through
  such an activity, either.

  3.  The closest thing I can attribute in real-world racing to something that
  maybe some of the "hot-lappers" have confused to be similar to what they
  do.....and call it racing......is maybe "qualifying" or....."fastest race
  lap"......or maybe even "track record holder."  But, let's be clear about
  this.  No race driver I know of, made it to the "hall of fame" of public
  opinion (or the real one) in racing because they had a lot of
  races.....where they had the "fastest lap" in that race.  They don't keep
  that score in real-world racing.  I don't think anyone made it for having
  the most "track records" either.  I know they don't put you in the hall of
  fame for having been on the most poles.....heck, no one can even remember
  who the pole sitter was....come Monday morning...usually (unless of course
  you also win the race on Sunday).  The only thing they put you in the "hall
  of fame" for....is winning races....winning championships (based on
  winning/finishing position...in races).

  4.  I spent an hour.....maybe it should have been longer.....but I couldn't
  find a single GPL related website that listed all the GPL drivers in ranking
  of the number of races they've won.  Or, the number of podium finishes
  they've had.  I have no idea who the good race car drivers are in GPL....or
  what they do or where they race....and certainly not how they rank amongst
  themselves.  I do know however, who all the best "game playing hot-lappers"
  are.  That took me just a minute or two to find.  Too bad, because no one in
  real racing cares about that....I know I certainly don't.  It might be
  fun....but its not about racing.

  5.  In real-world racing.....there's a sub-amateur form of driving called
  "autocross".....and even a professional form of it
...

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