rec.autos.simulators

This Isn't Going To Be Popular!

Eldre

This Isn't Going To Be Popular!

by Eldre » Sat, 25 Aug 2001 02:45:34



>>If someone practices at
>> their chosen activity to get good at it, why SHOULDN'T they be rewarded?
>A
>> concert pianist may have been practicing for 20 years to hone his/her
>skill.
>> Does that belittle the accomplishment?

>The comparison isn't equal. Anyway, unless I had more information, I still
>wouldn't know if they are a truly gifted musician, or just someone who
>practices a lot.

Again, what's the difference?  It doesn't matter it the person practices at it,
or is Mozart re-incarnated.  They still have a certain amount of skill at their
chosen activity.

Why not?  Someone who runs a 1:26 at Monza can certainly be considered a better
driver than someone who can only run 1:40.  It's an objective ranking.  Even if
you want to collect stats for race wins, pole positions, etc - that data
changes arbitrarily.  Someone might have 10 race wins, but he's only running
against novices.  Would you see him as a better sim driver than someone who
finished last in a race of 'aliens'?

Eldred

--
Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001
Homepage - http://www.racesimcentral.net/~epickett
F1 hcp. +16.36...Monster +366.59...

Never argue with an idiot.  He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

JM

This Isn't Going To Be Popular!

by JM » Sat, 25 Aug 2001 03:33:45


In a similar vein, that 1:26 guy might be the daddy of all T1 kamikaze
pilots, or never finish a race for running into the back of other cars.  He
might also crash out 9 times out of 10 when hotlapping, the 1 being the
successful run.

the 1:40 lad might be slow, but if he's clean, has better awareness and
consideration of the other drivers, never causing a problem when he's being
lapped.

Just more fuel to the fire I know, but who decides what's best?
faster=better, or not, is the jury out on that.

Having said all that, at least in the GPL league races I've participated in
(I'm one of the mobile chicanes in GPL) the good racers are also fast.

Conversely, I'll find N4 full of "fast"***heads who don't have clue one
about racing, any night of the week on papyloop.

cheers
John

Darryl Johnso

This Isn't Going To Be Popular!

by Darryl Johnso » Sat, 25 Aug 2001 06:07:39

David G Fisher wrote in





>> Besides, what ever happened to rewarding hard work?

> I wouldn't consider hotlapping hard work. For example, getting up
> at 6 am to work all day with patients at a children's cancer
> hospital is hard work, mentally, emotionally, and physically.

>>If someone practices at
>> their chosen activity to get good at it, why SHOULDN'T they be
>> rewarded? A concert pianist may have been practicing for 20 years
>> to hone his/her skill. Does that belittle the accomplishment?

> The comparison isn't equal. Anyway, unless I had more information,
> I still wouldn't know if they are a truly gifted musician, or just
> someone who practices a lot.

        If you can play very well, it is likely that you are both
        a gifted musician _and_ you have practiced a lot. I know
        of no gifted musicians who do not practice regularly. At
        the same time, I know of a number of people, myself included,
        who practice a lot at music and still can, at best, be described
        as "adequate" or even "marginal" musicians.

        The point being that if you have no talent, practice
        is only going to take you so far. If I am not a good driver,
        I am never going to get an 8:15 at Nurenburg in GPL,
        regardless of how much I practice. If someone tells me they
        have managed a 1:28 at Monza, I'm going to assume they
        have some talent. If they tell me they did after only
        five or six hours of practice, I'm going to think they
        learn very quickly.

--
  Darryl

Eldre

This Isn't Going To Be Popular!

by Eldre » Sat, 25 Aug 2001 12:10:12



>In a similar vein, that 1:26 guy might be the daddy of all T1 kamikaze
>pilots, or never finish a race for running into the back of other cars.  He
>might also crash out 9 times out of 10 when hotlapping, the 1 being the
>successful run.

Sure, that's possible.  If the guy is 3 seconds per lap faster than I am, he
could slow down(ie: take it easy), and lose maybe a second a lap.  Guess what?
That's STILL 2 seconds per lap faster.  I don't know why most of the faster
drivers don't take that route... :(


guy say something similar to me.

I haven't tried N4 online much yet.  I'm still getting graphics slowdowns
online... :(

Eldred
--
Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001
Homepage - http://www.racesimcentral.net/~epickett
F1 hcp. +16.36...Monster +366.59...

Never argue with an idiot.  He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Rafe McAulif

This Isn't Going To Be Popular!

by Rafe McAulif » Sun, 26 Aug 2001 11:50:13

Wow Mark, you're getting as bad as Tom :P

BTW, some very valid points, well said.

Rafe Mc

On Thu, 23 Aug 2001 03:11:54 -0600, "mark jeangerard"


>Just so you know that I sympathize to some extent: I think I know where you
>are coming from Tom as I have a real problem with the term 'compression'
>being used in place of 'data reduction' when referring to audio. The result
>of which, if you take the long (and very real) way around, leaves me with 20
>years of extremely hard earned experience in my field going to no good
>effect. I'm obsolete. Nobody wants what I'm offering. Kaput. I'm not sure
>you would care about my plight when trying to figure out how to email Uncle
>Herb the latest Staind song. My point is only that - people will think and
>do what they like. (For the most part, this post is babbling. But you got me
>thinking.)

>That being said, I use GPLRank to judge my performance. Absolutely. My buddy
>list is comprised of people that I know intimately from newsgroup
>discussions, people I race with often on VROC, people who's articles I read,
>and Huttu. (The later simply for the purpose of shocking my heart into
>action on mornings that we run out of coffee.) My fastest laps are all race
>laps. That's all I do. I run race setups at racing pace. I can reproduce
>every time to within a few 10ths any day. I race in two full damage leagues
>and guess what? I practice with full damage, even on new tracks. Some of the
>people on my buddy list do the same, some don't. I know who's who and that's
>why GPLRank is a good for me. It really is a gauge for me of how well I'm
>progressing. It's just like using a single lap time to see if a setup or
>driving style change worked. Only longer. I think speed is definitely one of
>the skills that a race car driver must possess.

>Chaz Wood started a thing a couple of years ago that was really cool...
>while it was... In case you are unaware, it was an invitational league. The
>GPLRC I believe, and if someone suggested you be added to the list then all
>you had to do was race a public race with Chaz or one of his appointees to
>see if you made the cut. The only qualification was that you were clean. You
>could race when ever you wanted as long as it was on the official server and
>all results were compiled daily.  It was excellent. I remember starting 10th
>or 12th on many nights and going through Curva Grande or Eau Rouge without
>seeing a single wreck. Granted, some raced more often than others, but it
>was very clear who were the most successful racers. I'm not sure what
>happened, but I would guess that administration got to be too much, how
>could it not? In the end, the only ones who could be judged by it where the
>ones racing on it. As many entrants as there were on the roster I'm sure it
>left out a fair number of good, solid sim racers. If that means anything.

>I have at least a little of each of the skills that you list as those
>indicative of a good race driver. I know where I am weakest and try to work
>on that point. When it overshadows the next point I have a new project. I
>know all my league cohorts have the same skills and that they consider them
>skills and think of them consciously because I have talked to them about
>them. Many of us use GPLRank in many of our discussions and consider it a
>great tool. We don't consider GPLRank as racing, not that I've heard
>directly, but we include it in many discussions about racing. Can't see how
>we'd separate it sometimes.

>Some days, I don't race as clean as I would like. I'm me, a guy enjoying a
>hobby and the dangers of a wreck are minimal. If I had even one sponsor, no
>matter how much the deal was worth, I'd put in my best every inch of the
>way. But, that simply isn't the case. I think many of us here 'race' like
>that.

>PS Anyone who enters any chat room or newsgroup anywhere should expect the
>lowest of low. I find VROC and R.A.S. to be quite a ways above that. High
>even. If you are introducing someone to an online community who has no prior
>experience... a quick briefing might be in order?


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