rec.autos.simulators

by **Phaso** » Wed, 30 May 2001 05:11:20

Hi,

I asked this question on Joshua's N4 newsgroup back when N4 was released.
100% of replies were a resounding 'Yes, you are completely within your
rights'. I just want to check to see if anything has changed.

Last night I was in a Talladega race with some pretty good drivers, good
enough to go 3 wide into a turn and keep it together. After some great
racing I grabbed the early lead by passing on the outside.

As the leader of the race, I feel that I am entitled to take whatever damn
line I please, as long as I don't block or cause crashes. I like to take
the low line and stay low in the straights, which is what I did, right from
the beginning. One other guy, the host, was racing with me. He tried a few
times to pass on the outside, which failed, but he did get inside me 2 or 3
times and I let him take the lead, no problem. Each time, I took it back
quite quickly. I probably had a slightly stronger car.

2 laps from the end, he deliberately crashes us both. (He didn't deny this).
I hadn't even begun blocking yet. As you can imagine, I was pissed, after
having such a good race with some good drivers. Apparently, he crashed me
because he was frustrated that from lap 1 I didn't just give up the inside
line on a sliver platter for him, and he couldn't pass me on the outside.
He called this 'blocking'. This certainly doesn't fall within my
understanding of the term - I kept the low, inside line all the way around
the track and he had no problem pulling up beside me on the outside line
several times. I've had this done to me in a few races myself and I have no
problem with it.

Am I within my rights? Or has a new N4 'gentleman's agreement' been decided
on, unbeknownst to me, that decrees that even if I am the leader of the
race, I immediately have to go to the outside as soon as somebody faster
drafts up behind me? What's the call on this in league play? (I was playing
on the public servers). It sure sounds like I'll just have to hand the lead
over to whomever wants it or get crashed for being a poor sport.

Thanks,
-Phasor

by **Gandolf** » Wed, 30 May 2001 06:12:31

Of course you were right. If they cant get past you high its there problem.
Guy sounds like a***.
Doug D1

by **Eldre** » Wed, 30 May 2001 06:39:09

>Am I within my rights? Or has a new N4 'gentleman's agreement' been decided
>on, unbeknownst to me, that decrees that even if I am the leader of the
>race, I immediately have to go to the outside as soon as somebody faster
>drafts up behind me? What's the call on this in league play? (I was playing
>on the public servers). It sure sounds like I'll just have to hand the lead
>over to whomever wants it or get crashed for being a poor sport.

I've seen this in league rules before for N3, and I disagree. The problem(as I
understand it) is that if the cars are equal, it's almost *impossible* to pass
on the high line. Even if the the following car is a little better, you have
the same problem. So, if one driver jumps to the front, grabs the low line,
and STAYS there, he's guaranteed a win.

Eldred
--
Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
F1 hcp. +24.63...F2 +151.26...

Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

by **Alex Kihuran** » Wed, 30 May 2001 06:58:18

The EXACT same thing happened to me when I was racing about a month ago. I
was leading, somebody was behind me, and I kept running low, running
protective, in first place. There was about 8 laps to go and he had been
trying to get around me for about 8 laps around the outside and couldn't, so
finally he just punted me in the back. So I said, "why the hell did you do
that" and he goes, " you were blocking me like it was the last lap for the
whole race." so I go "i was just running the protective line" and he goes
"you weren't working with me, your supposed to stay in line and work
together" so i go "i was in line, in the protective line" and then he goes,
"it's still blocking"

WTF!?!?! That really pissed me off. I wanted to go to his house and beat him
down right then.

Thanks,
Alex

by **Olav K. Malm** » Wed, 30 May 2001 07:06:11

> The EXACT same thing happened to me when I was racing about a month ago. I
> was leading, somebody was behind me, and I kept running low, running
> protective, in first place. There was about 8 laps to go and he had been
> trying to get around me for about 8 laps around the outside and couldn't, so
> finally he just punted me in the back. So I said, "why the hell did you do
> that" and he goes, " you were blocking me like it was the last lap for the
> whole race." so I go "i was just running the protective line" and he goes
> "you weren't working with me, your supposed to stay in line and work
> together" so i go "i was in line, in the protective line" and then he goes,
> "it's still blocking"

> WTF!?!?! That really pissed me off. I wanted to go to his house and beat him
> down right then.

Good thing we live on different continents regarding a certain IGPLC
Mosport shunt :)

Even if all the wreckers and ignorants are taken away, i feel that the
N4 community is a lot more hostile than what the GPL community is,
even when that was a infant. For instance, how come that I feel I am
the only one who race with a full name and not some stupid nick. In
GPL I know who I race, in N4 it could be anyone on this ng without
even knowing it.

And one tip Alex: Please reply after what is written in a post, not on
top since it makes a hell of a mess after a while.

--
Olav K. Malmin
remove .spam when replying

by **Aitc** » Wed, 30 May 2001 07:20:14

writes:

: I've seen this in league rules before for N3, and I disagree. The
problem(as I
: understand it) is that if the cars are equal, it's almost *impossible* to
pass
: on the high line. Even if the the following car is a little better, you
have
: the same problem. So, if one driver jumps to the front, grabs the low
line,
: and STAYS there, he's guaranteed a win.

I have had plenty of fixed races where I could pass on the outside. But
there are 2 key things that are required to make the pass successful.

#1: The driver running on the inside must be able to hold his line!! You
really have to drive the car very close to the car down low.
#2: You have to have help. Really, it's the only way of making the pass
work.. The guys behind you has to know how to draft.

If you can imagine, I have had many problems with #1. Most of the time
people like to drift up in the middle of the turns which is a real pain. You
enter the corner door to door and before you know it your both in the wall.
If they want to run low all day, fine, I'll race them all day like that.
It's just that they don't stay there.

Just my opinion, but if people are going to run so defensively like that
they are going to get beat more often than not. Running so low makes you
slow. It's a real momentum killer. Besides, with good help they won't stay
up front very long anyways.

by **Thom j** » Wed, 30 May 2001 09:18:27

Ur right Olav and the GPL community is completely different to N4.
Sadly I'm from the US and many of the idiots online in N4 make us
USA'ers look dumber then we really are!!! I understand why many
folks overseas dont want to bother with N4 as it seems like we are
all nutz in N4 but this is not the case.. Sadly we have too many tho'

| Even if all the wreckers and ignorants are taken away, i feel that the
| N4 community is a lot more hostile than what the GPL community is,
| even when that was a infant. For instance, how come that I feel I am
| the only one who race with a full name and not some stupid nick. In
| GPL I know who I race, in N4 it could be anyone on this ng without
| even knowing it.
|
| And one tip Alex: Please reply after what is written in a post, not on
| top since it makes a hell of a mess after a while.
| --
| Olav K. Malmin

by **Alex Kihuran** » Wed, 30 May 2001 10:05:29

Lol, Olav, it's okay. :) I had a feeling you would think I was Bart, but I
was pushing a bit because I trying to stay ahead of Roberto for the race and
the championship! Actually, it took out Roberto, so maybe it wasn't so bad,
thanks Olav ;)

I kinda noticed that too. Still fun to give some bubbah's some serious ass
whopping using default setups, then tell them, as in shock, they cuss you
out and say your lying :) (Happened last night at Atlanta, got pole with a
29.08 with the default qual setup and when i told them that they all cussed
me out and said i was lying, hehe)

Anyways, is this how I'm supposed to post?

Thanks,
Alex

by **Alex Kihuran** » Wed, 30 May 2001 10:09:09

Yeah, that's a dumb rule, but with the draft I can a lot of times pass on
the outside, or fake them out. (While they are down low, I go way outside on
the straight, then they see they can move up and get a better line through
the corner, so I lift off a bit then tuck down inside) In the early days of
NASCAR Heat online in the NH Yahoo Club (like 3 days after its release)
there was 8 of us who used to race Daytona close. The leader would run
protective and 2nd would be on the outside the whole time and then you'd
weave through traffic and bump around a bit :) Good fun, of course after 6
or 7 laps we'd have a big wreck, but we always ended up laughing about it :)

Thanks,
Alex

writes:

> >Am I within my rights? Or has a new N4 'gentleman's agreement' been
decided
> >on, unbeknownst to me, that decrees that even if I am the leader of the
> >race, I immediately have to go to the outside as soon as somebody faster
> >drafts up behind me? What's the call on this in league play? (I was
playing
> >on the public servers). It sure sounds like I'll just have to hand the
lead
> >over to whomever wants it or get crashed for being a poor sport.

> I've seen this in league rules before for N3, and I disagree. The
problem(as I
> understand it) is that if the cars are equal, it's almost *impossible* to
pass
> on the high line. Even if the the following car is a little better, you
have
> the same problem. So, if one driver jumps to the front, grabs the low
line,
> and STAYS there, he's guaranteed a win.

> Eldred
> --
> Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001
> Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
> F1 hcp. +24.63...F2 +151.26...

> Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats
you
> with experience...
> Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

by **Eldre** » Wed, 30 May 2001 11:31:08

>I have had plenty of fixed races where I could pass on the outside. But
>there are 2 key things that are required to make the pass successful.

>#1: The driver running on the inside must be able to hold his line!! You
>really have to drive the car very close to the car down low.
>#2: You have to have help. Really, it's the only way of making the pass
>work.. The guys behind you has to know how to draft.

I've never been able to stay in the draft LONG enough to pass anyone...<g>

Eldred
--
Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
F1 hcp. +24.63...F2 +151.26...

Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

by **Oaku** » Wed, 30 May 2001 13:08:52

99% of the people who say this, and there are many out there, never want to be
the second or third back, only leading and get pissed if you pass them.

by **Thom j** » Wed, 30 May 2001 13:52:59

Such a Fact!! SUCH A FACT!! Wow!!

| >"you weren't working with me, your supposed to stay in line and work
| >together"
|
| 99% of the people who say this, and there are many out there, never want
to be
| the second or third back, only leading and get pissed if you pass them.

by **Gaul** » Wed, 30 May 2001 14:56:37

I've done that too. I've spent absolutely no time on setups (shame on me I
know) and only use the default ones. I usually do pretty well in qualifying
with the default qual, but get dusted most of the time with default moderate
setups during the race.

by **David L. Coo** » Thu, 31 May 2001 01:03:33

I knew this would happen. It's too bad that it did though. I enjoy N4 but
the online experience just blows. I don't have time to join a league so I
race offline. Lately I've been playing with GP3 and although it's no GPL it
is fun with the new GPxPatch for 3D sound.

When WSC comes around, we may have the opportunity to start another good
on-line racing community with a sim that looks to kick ass.

> Ur right Olav and the GPL community is completely different to N4.
> Sadly I'm from the US and many of the idiots online in N4 make us
> USA'ers look dumber then we really are!!! I understand why many
> folks overseas dont want to bother with N4 as it seems like we are
> all nutz in N4 but this is not the case.. Sadly we have too many tho'

> | Even if all the wreckers and ignorants are taken away, i feel that the
> | N4 community is a lot more hostile than what the GPL community is,
> | even when that was a infant. For instance, how come that I feel I am
> | the only one who race with a full name and not some stupid nick. In
> | GPL I know who I race, in N4 it could be anyone on this ng without
> | even knowing it.

by **J'm Sm't** » Thu, 31 May 2001 02:48:35

> Hi,

<snip>

'Blocking'? They never called it that when Dale Earnhardt did it.
--
J'm

To Reply Direct, Remove Clothes.
...-.-

rec.autos.simulators

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