rec.autos.simulators

I think you might not fully understand the context of "game engines vs.
actual car behavior".  Be sure we are all aware of the difference in car
behavior and handling in both games.  That is clearly not what most of us
are talking about.  We mostly talk about the actual game engine itself, the
limitation it has, the feature it has, etc..

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...
-- http://www.racesimcentral.net/
-- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

If you check out the Flight simulator newsgroup, you'll find the same type
of people than us.  A good portion of us have actual racing experience,
whatever it's open, closed or any type of racing, on 1,2,3,or more wheels ;)

Of course I have.  F1 2000 has one of the worst track modeling in modern
***.  I've raced two of those tracks, plus went to other tracks
all-around the world, and Im excluding here the years of extensive F1
watching each two weeks.

You'll find that most of us don't say stuff just to impress, but to inform.

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...
-- http://www.racesimcentral.net/
-- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

I have yet to discover any little attempt to model this in F1 2000,
unfortunately.  But we quite knew that the SCGT game engine, even if
above-average, just couldn't match up the one in GPL, neither RC2000 or
other game engine that have potential like Motorsims, the EA game engine
found in SBK 2000, Geoff Crammond's F1GP game engine or Hasbro's GP500 game
engine.

It's on the level of Codemaster's game engine or Ubisoft's Pod game engine,
a little higher probably.

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...
-- http://www.WeRace.net
-- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

Yep, and F1 2000 has big problems doing that.  Look at how much
trail-braking and power-sliding you do in EA's Formula 1 game.  It is
clearly not realistic at all.

In a previous post I mentioned that modern F1 are raced the same as
technical books told us before.  When braking into a corner, you make sure
that you have gone down to the correct speed before aiming to the apex.
People like Michael Schumacher are able to push that limit to the edge and
actually aim the apex while still having a quite heavy braking.

Unfortunately in F1 2000, anybody can easily power-brake into the corner
(with inducted push), or powerslide "a la GPL" almost.  It made the
simulator irrelevant for this reason, with the incredible bad track modeling
at -each-and-every- track in it.

Please note that Im not bashing ISI, just stating facts from how the game
engine performs under racing conditions.  Let's hope their next attempt will
be more realistic than that.

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...
-- http://www.WeRace.net
-- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

You are saying that F1 2000 is on the level of POD?

If so, give us all a ***ing break, Frank.

--
* rrev at mindspring dot com
* unit.26 - s.p.u.t.u.m.
* http://www.racesimcentral.net/

 This sucks???I think jim would pull into the pits and grin so wide
while he says"so this is where were at,huh".Taking a turn at 4 to 5g's
instead of 1g would of opened Jim's eyes very wide.

   Modern F1 cars drift also since all tires generate slip angles.
Difference is that the tires from GPL era had a larger slip angle
and where more forgiving when you reached thier limit.Modern F1 tires
are said to be harder to drive since their slip angles are smaller and
the limits are very unforgiving(stick-no stick).This year rookie Cart
driver Juan Montoya was told by all the drivers that one of the tracks
was a *** to drive at the limit.He never spun once while many of the
other drivers were spinning like crazy:)))))

--
* rrev at mindspring dot com
* unit.26 - s.p.u.t.u.m.
* http://www.cabal.net

Back then they weren't just drivers they were dare devils, they were putting
their lives on the line every lap and surely had the same love/hate
relationship with F1 as I have with GPL.

Modern F1 racing isn't as rewarding as it was in those days, and therefore a
sim can't be either. Is F1 2000 realistic? I don't know, I haven't tried it,
but if it is it won't be very much like GPL.

"Skeeter" wrote

BB,

I suggest you wait for frank by the slide, during playtime.  Getting a bit
tedious, hearing your whine here in the classroom.

Proper bullies do their best work outside.

--DK

There are a lot of vintage car drivers that I have seen in 1983 and older cars
that I dont consider "professional" drivers, but they went through a simple
driving school and have the money do buy and race the cars. A few of them might
crash the car and decide that its too difficult, but most of them just cruise
around at a speed they can handle( I would say at about 7/10 speed), and only a
small handful seem to go near the speed of the car is capable.
I dont see why it would anymore difficult to drive a modern F1 at 7/10ths. as
long as your very careful with the throttle.
I think its all a matter of being able to feel what the car is doing and
learning its limits.

With a computer sim you dont get the G forces to feel what the car is doing so I
think it takes longer to learn the car limits. We have to use on the visuals,
sounds, and now with FF we get some feedback. In a real car you can get a sense
of how hard you are braking by the G's pulling you forward, but in a sim you
might have to wait for the tires to squeal or lock up or if you have visuals
like in GPL with the front end diving. So I think without having all the feel
and G forces in a sim they might make it a little less realistic and easier to
drive or make it more realistic and try to translate the car feel through the
visuals, sound or FF like in GPL.

OBTW, I have never driven an F1 car, but I have a lot of racing experience in
other formula and sport racers.
Lutrell

Every [ not paid to plug the product ]
 F-1 driver commenting on these simulators
[ GP2, GPL etc... ]  said: NOT REALISTIC AT ALL

There's only one game that can truly claim to have realistic physics
and that is Viper racing [ and even that one only in
bumper view, the rest just feel too slow ]

Andre

Jan.
=---

*PLONK*

About GPL, it's more the opposite.  You should had see Alexandre Tagliani
after they showed him GPL in Blainville.  He only swears by it now (with
Patrick also in the Players simulation).  Or Sir Jack Brabham.  Or real-life
Vintage F1 racers.  Or just go to this URL,
http://x46.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=594691789&CONTEXT=953604506.11879055...
um=1  read and apologies yourself for such lies and inventions.

FYI, Viper Racing still has to my eyes incredible physics, second to GPL,
with the only letback of having the title surrounded in a more fantasy-based
environment.

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...
-- http://www.WeRace.net
-- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.