rec.autos.simulators

by **Mitch_** » Wed, 26 Nov 2003 05:40:31

Ok, we've determined cheating is happening (see McWhoms post) my question is
other than viewing an extreme example like what that replay showed is their
a reliable accurate way to determine if someone is actually cheating? Is
that why cheating is just an accepted fact of Papy simracing? (and yes Don
Wilshe Ive heard you go about this before here in the ng).

If we cant accurately reliably determine if someone actually is cheating
then why complain?. The only real answer is to choose the series you run in
carefully and hope the admins have enough control to weed out suspected
cheaters.

I ran in a LAN event (N4 days) which was strictly monitored and funny enough
no one dominated during the entire event. Coincidence or foul play. Seeing
how we cant monitor closely then what other options are available? I'd love
to hear a comment from a Papy guy like Eric Busch on ways to identify
cheating.

Mitch

by **SimRace** » Wed, 26 Nov 2003 06:22:58

IIRC, The Racesevers people were looking at a client-side app that would
check out all the client's running progs at the time of an event to assure
no one was running any TSRs that could hack memory addresses and or change
values once the sim was running and connected to one of their rated servers.
At the end of a race, the app produced a report that is sent to RS and
checked for *illegal* activities before the scoring was made official.
Something like that, haven't heard much about it lately as my league is on
hiatus, and AFAIK, no one in there was cheating to begin with...

Other than that, its pretty much just called league racing, you let people
you know and trust in and cast a watchful eye on any new members. That's
about the best one could do I'd imagine.

by **Phillip Malphrus, Jr** » Wed, 26 Nov 2003 06:38:50

that's called Spyware, no one really wants that from a third party product.
If it was released by Papy though, that would be different.

by **SimRace** » Wed, 26 Nov 2003 07:05:52

Well, ok, but RS is a respected entity in the sim racing community. I don't
think they'll scope out the *** on your machine if that's what you're
worried about...(and spyware is transparent/invisible, you install this on
your own, in order to curtail the cheating, smarty pants). Outside of
hosting dutuies, I don't think their app was anymore invasive than the
crapped up redirector that OLR used to use. Of course you're above that too,
huh? What you hiding on that machine of yours?

by **Phillip Malphrus, Jr** » Wed, 26 Nov 2003 07:25:50

LOL

Respected by who? I've never once used Raceserver. But, that's not the
point. It's called privacy. Its nobody's business what is on my machine. I'm
not hiding anything but it's still noone's business. If the app was
incorporated by Papyrus, that's one thing. But to say I'm gonna let RS send
back what is currently running on my computer or whatever their "TSR" is
sending to their site is absurd. I dont know those people, why should I?

I had the OLR redirector, btw, smart butt, and still use OLR. That's race
specific information and I know who those folks are.

> > that's called Spyware, no one really wants that from a third party
> product.
> > If it was released by Papy though, that would be different.

> Well, ok, but RS is a respected entity in the sim racing community. I
don't
> think they'll scope out the *** on your machine if that's what you're
> worried about...(and spyware is transparent/invisible, you install this on
> your own, in order to curtail the cheating, smarty pants). Outside of
> hosting dutuies, I don't think their app was anymore invasive than the
> crapped up redirector that OLR used to use. Of course you're above that
too,
> huh? What you hiding on that machine of yours?

by **Ed Whit** » Wed, 26 Nov 2003 07:57:44

<snippage>
I've scanned previous posts and haven't had any luck finding one from McWhom
which deals with the issue of cheating, but I am curious just what the
replay showed which alerted you to cheating activity......As Simracer points
out, it's not impossible to cheat with 3rd party programs running in the
background, I've heard about it since n2 days, but have never actually seen
it work. Especially in a fixed setup environment, noone should be THAT much
faster than anyone else, but we all know that some folks just are, whether
from practice, or the setup suits their style, they're having a good day, or
whatever......but it's awfully hard to say that just because this guy gets
around the track .5 secs faster than everyone else, that he's cheating. So
I'd like to hear what you folks have found, if just for my own information.
Feel free to email......
Ed

by **Peter Ive** » Wed, 26 Nov 2003 08:16:41

<snip>

The guy went from doing 47 second laps to doing 44 second laps, and
literally just accelerated away into the distance.
--
Peter Ives (AKA Pete Ivington)
Remove ALL_STRESS before replying via email
If you know what's good for you, don't listen to me :)
GPLRank Joystick -50.63 Wheel -25.01

by **Sting3** » Wed, 26 Nov 2003 08:21:13

His Topic was
NR2k3 and cheating maybe you have him blocked? LOL

11/20/2003 (120:06 PM ((Central time (-6hrs GMT) ))) is the date and time...

> > Ok, we've determined cheating is happening (see McWhoms post) my

question
snip

by **Mitch_** » Wed, 26 Nov 2003 08:47:34

snipped from a few days ago Ed.

As promised (thanks for the email Sean):

http://firebrand11.stargate.net/N2003/fastclip.rpy

Watch the #32 car for a bit.

Jason

say that just because this guy gets

by **Eric Leblan** » Wed, 26 Nov 2003 09:01:31

a 44 seconde lap at Daytona.

EL

> > Ok, we've determined cheating is happening (see McWhoms post) my
question
> is
> > other than viewing an extreme example like what that replay showed is
> their
> > a reliable accurate way to determine if someone is actually cheating?
> <snippage>
> I've scanned previous posts and haven't had any luck finding one from
McWhom
> which deals with the issue of cheating, but I am curious just what the
> replay showed which alerted you to cheating activity......As Simracer
points
> out, it's not impossible to cheat with 3rd party programs running in the
> background, I've heard about it since n2 days, but have never actually
seen
> it work. Especially in a fixed setup environment, noone should be THAT
much
> faster than anyone else, but we all know that some folks just are, whether
> from practice, or the setup suits their style, they're having a good day,
or
> whatever......but it's awfully hard to say that just because this guy gets
> around the track .5 secs faster than everyone else, that he's cheating. So
> I'd like to hear what you folks have found, if just for my own
information.
> Feel free to email......
> Ed

by **jason moy** » Wed, 26 Nov 2003 09:39:21

On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 22:57:44 GMT, "Ed White"

>I've scanned previous posts and haven't had any luck finding one from McWhom
>which deals with the issue of cheating, but I am curious just what the
>replay showed which alerted you to cheating activity......

http://firebrand11.stargate.net/N2003/fastclip.rpy

Watch #32.

The cheat/bug in question is setup related and does not occur in fixed
races. To the best of my knowledge, the old RAM cheats do not work
nor has anyone been able to demonstrate that they do.

Jason

by **btgos** » Wed, 26 Nov 2003 23:46:18

Well the change in the subject pretty much says it all.
Can we get something like PunkBuster for this sim? Either from Papyrus or
some other third party group. If we have something like this then maybe we
can end some of this brainless cheating.

> On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 22:57:44 GMT, "Ed White"

> >I've scanned previous posts and haven't had any luck finding one from
McWhom
> >which deals with the issue of cheating, but I am curious just what the
> >replay showed which alerted you to cheating activity......

> http://firebrand11.stargate.net/N2003/fastclip.rpy

> Watch #32.

> >As Simracer points
> >out, it's not impossible to cheat with 3rd party programs running in the
> >background, I've heard about it since n2 days, but have never actually
seen
> >it work. Especially in a fixed setup environment, noone should be THAT
much
> >faster than anyone else, but we all know that some folks just are,
whether
> >from practice, or the setup suits their style, they're having a good day,
or
> >whatever.....

> The cheat/bug in question is setup related and does not occur in fixed
> races. To the best of my knowledge, the old RAM cheats do not work
> nor has anyone been able to demonstrate that they do.

> Jason

by **Eldre** » Thu, 27 Nov 2003 02:13:47

What's PunkBuster?

Eldred
--
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
Member
Screamers Racing League
IICC League
GPLRank -2.4 MoGPL rank +302.38
ChallengeRank +54.48 MoC +743.77
Hist. +82.82 MoH in progress
N2k3 rank:in progress

Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

by **Ronald Stoeh** » Thu, 27 Nov 2003 02:43:35

>>Well the change in the subject pretty much says it all.
>>Can we get something like PunkBuster for this sim? Either from Papyrus or
>>some other third party group. If we have something like this then maybe we
>>can end some of this brainless cheating.

> What's PunkBuster?

So you're not a 3D-Shooter guy, eh? ;)

It's an anti-cheat tool used (exclusively?) for FPS games.
"Do you want to know more?" http://www.punkbuster.com

l8er
ronny

by **Tim** » Thu, 27 Nov 2003 03:05:18

Agreed. It's not that they, or anyone, would in fact, hack your pc. It's that
if they did, you'd know nothing about it.

Never trust anything someone puts on your computer for free.

:)

--
Tim White

rec.autos.simulators

NR2003 cheating.

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NR2003 cheating.