--
See ya in the pits,
Dean
I have a terrible memory. In fact my memory's so bad I can't remember how
long it's been since I've forgotten anything.
> --
> See ya in the pits,
> Dean
> I have a terrible memory. In fact my memory's so bad I can't remember how
> long it's been since I've forgotten anything.
I belive it was Papy since it was in a magazine article
MAdDAWG
Bah. A guy who doesn't give us many answers, with a bunch of kids replying
with silly questions, making the interesting questions ignored in the pack
when a real serious simracers posts them.
...and in the middle you have Tom Pabst popping up and acting as his
usual-self <roll eyes> ;)
--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- http://ymenard.cjb.net/
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...
And Tom's comment/question was fine...if there are any rolling eyes due, it
is to your post here.
Marc
> Bah. A guy who doesn't give us many answers, with a bunch of kids
replying
> with silly questions, making the interesting questions ignored in the pack
> when a real serious simracers posts them.
> ...and in the middle you have Tom Pabst popping up and acting as his
> usual-self <roll eyes> ;)
> --
> -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
> -- http://ymenard.cjb.net/
> -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez
> Corporation - helping America into the New World...
As for Mr Pabst, I think that was just a sarcastic comment. Half of his post
is about is credentials (a curriculum vitae?). I'm not taking anything away
from him (hmmm sounds weird in english), just that it was an interesting way
of posting a question.
p.s. Tom, I really like your updated track graphics ;)
--
Philippe "Philster" Sergerie
> And Tom's comment/question was fine...if there are any rolling eyes due,
it
> is to your post here.
> Marc
> > > Guys, there's a pretty good read over on the Sierra boards about the
> > > upcoming NR2003. It's a pretty long thread so go grab a fresh cup of
> > coffee
> > > before digging in. Enjoy.
> > Bah. A guy who doesn't give us many answers, with a bunch of kids
> replying
> > with silly questions, making the interesting questions ignored in the
pack
> > when a real serious simracers posts them.
> > ...and in the middle you have Tom Pabst popping up and acting as his
> > usual-self <roll eyes> ;)
> > --
> > -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
> > -- http://ymenard.cjb.net/
> > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez
> > Corporation - helping America into the New World...
Is it a good thing or a bad thing that real NASCAR engineers are
volunteering to help Papy make NR2003 the best sim so far? I believe that's
the only issue.
Marc
> As for Mr Pabst, I think that was just a sarcastic comment. Half of his
post
> is about is credentials (a curriculum vitae?). I'm not taking anything
away
> from him (hmmm sounds weird in english), just that it was an interesting
way
> of posting a question.
> p.s. Tom, I really like your updated track graphics ;)
> --
> Philippe "Philster" Sergerie
> > Francois, you are way out of line. This WC engineer is volunteering his
> > time to help all of us get a better sim (he is only concerned about the
> sim
> > aspects of the game). He is then volunteering to tell us about it in
the
> > forum thread. If there is only 1 sentence of worthwhile comment coming
> from
> > his side, it would be 1 sentence more than we had before. Of course
there
> > are moronic replies in the thread, but there is a serious discussion
with
> > fantastically positive impacts for all of us in there. Since this is
the
> > end of the line for NASCAR sims and maybe any sims for a while, we
should
> > all be thankful if it is improved over the level that Papy could have
> > achieved without this generous person's help and data.
> > And Tom's comment/question was fine...if there are any rolling eyes due,
> it
> > is to your post here.
> > Marc
> > > > Guys, there's a pretty good read over on the Sierra boards about the
> > > > upcoming NR2003. It's a pretty long thread so go grab a fresh cup of
> > > coffee
> > > > before digging in. Enjoy.
> > > Bah. A guy who doesn't give us many answers, with a bunch of kids
> > replying
> > > with silly questions, making the interesting questions ignored in the
> pack
> > > when a real serious simracers posts them.
> > > ...and in the middle you have Tom Pabst popping up and acting as his
> > > usual-self <roll eyes> ;)
> > > --
> > > -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
> > > -- http://ymenard.cjb.net/
> > > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez
> > > Corporation - helping America into the New World...
David G Fisher
> Is it a good thing or a bad thing that real NASCAR engineers are
> volunteering to help Papy make NR2003 the best sim so far? I believe
that's
> the only issue.
> Marc
> > I did take time to read the whole thread. While it is exciting to see a
> real
> > WC engineer involved in the development of the sim, it doesn't tell us
> much
> > about the actual feel of the car. He just gives us a bunch of details
> about
> > car setup ("people will not mount the rear track bar, the cars will
bottom
> > out, a baseline of 900/700 won't do anymore", etc), which is great if
> you're
> > into that, but nothing about what we really want to know about the sim
> > (other than the fact of having a real race professional on board as a
> > "consultant").
> > As for Mr Pabst, I think that was just a sarcastic comment. Half of his
> post
> > is about is credentials (a curriculum vitae?). I'm not taking anything
> away
> > from him (hmmm sounds weird in english), just that it was an interesting
> way
> > of posting a question.
> > p.s. Tom, I really like your updated track graphics ;)
> > --
> > Philippe "Philster" Sergerie
> > > Francois, you are way out of line. This WC engineer is volunteering
his
> > > time to help all of us get a better sim (he is only concerned about
the
> > sim
> > > aspects of the game). He is then volunteering to tell us about it in
> the
> > > forum thread. If there is only 1 sentence of worthwhile comment
coming
> > from
> > > his side, it would be 1 sentence more than we had before. Of course
> there
> > > are moronic replies in the thread, but there is a serious discussion
> with
> > > fantastically positive impacts for all of us in there. Since this is
> the
> > > end of the line for NASCAR sims and maybe any sims for a while, we
> should
> > > all be thankful if it is improved over the level that Papy could have
> > > achieved without this generous person's help and data.
> > > And Tom's comment/question was fine...if there are any rolling eyes
due,
> > it
> > > is to your post here.
> > > Marc
> > > > > Guys, there's a pretty good read over on the Sierra boards about
the
> > > > > upcoming NR2003. It's a pretty long thread so go grab a fresh cup
of
> > > > coffee
> > > > > before digging in. Enjoy.
> > > > Bah. A guy who doesn't give us many answers, with a bunch of kids
> > > replying
> > > > with silly questions, making the interesting questions ignored in
the
> > pack
> > > > when a real serious simracers posts them.
> > > > ...and in the middle you have Tom Pabst popping up and acting as his
> > > > usual-self <roll eyes> ;)
> > > > --
> > > > -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
> > > > -- http://ymenard.cjb.net/
> > > > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez
> > > > Corporation - helping America into the New World...
The trouble with input from drivers is: you get something like
this:
Bobby Rahal: How big is the check?
Cart Precision Racing team: XXXX dollars.
Bobby Rahal: CPR is the MOST realistic sim ever created!!!!
CPR team: THanks Bobby
Bobby Rahal: Add another X to the check and I'll say our team uses it get
ready for the races.!!
dave henrie
David G Fisher
> > I always assumed they already had had input from NASCAR engineers in the
> > same way many other sims have had input from racing teams and drivers.
> > David G Fisher
> The trouble with input from drivers is: you get something like
> this:
> Bobby Rahal: How big is the check?
> Cart Precision Racing team: XXXX dollars.
> Bobby Rahal: CPR is the MOST realistic sim ever created!!!!
> CPR team: THanks Bobby
> Bobby Rahal: Add another X to the check and I'll say our team uses it get
> ready for the races.!!
> dave henrie
> > I always assumed they already had had input from NASCAR engineers in the
> > same way many other sims have had input from racing teams and drivers.
> > David G Fisher
> The trouble with input from drivers is: you get something like
> this:
> Bobby Rahal: How big is the check?
> Cart Precision Racing team: XXXX dollars.
> Bobby Rahal: CPR is the MOST realistic sim ever created!!!!
> CPR team: THanks Bobby
> Bobby Rahal: Add another X to the check and I'll say our team uses it get
> ready for the races.!!
> dave henrie
John
It's not the "first" time somebody from a NASCAR team works with Papyrus.
The information in that thread wasn't really informative about serious
difference in physics between NR2002 and NR2003. He often goes "I can't
tell", either because he's not wolling or he can't. It's a little useless,
imho.
Read his post again, he brags all along as usual.
> > ...and in the middle you have Tom Pabst popping up and acting as his
> > usual-self <roll eyes> ;)
--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- http://ymenard.cjb.net/
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...
I'm still trying to figure out which NASCAR chief engineer has the
initials MD. Spent most of yesterday morning searching team pages on
google, didn't find a thing.
For the previous posters (i.e. DGF), if you actually read the
information in the URL at the beginning of this thread, you'll see
that engineers have been helping the Papyrus team on previous versions
but that not all of the data was completely accurate for reasons that
SpeedDM has explained. It wasn't a problem with the physics engine
itself or with the physical dimensions (size/weight/etc) of the
components modelled, but with properties of those components that
previous engineers were unwilling to divulge for competitive reasons -
fudging some information on the aerodynamic properties of the bodywork
or of the effective spring rate of the suspension, for instance.
Nothing inherently wrong with the Papyrus physics model (which is in a
class by itself), just with bits of the data that they were working
with.
There was a thread about the pros and cons of historical sims several
months ago where I noted that it was unlikely any modern simulation
would be 100% accurate for this reason. If you divulge the data
needed to accurately simulate your race car, you've essentially
allowed your opponents to reverse engineer aspects of your car for the
cost of a $50 video game - not a good idea.
Jason
"Jason Moyer"
don't confuse Crew Chief(the guy who sits up on the box and yaks in the
radio to the driver all race long) with Chief Engineer. A fellow who spends
the whole race weekend back in the trailer with all the computers and such.
Unless you found each team's website, and unless that place listed EVERYONE
who was working for the team, tracking down an engineer by his initials
would be tough.
dave henrie
